Date   

Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Bill Long
 

I just have not used them is all. I am sure Ray or Roland could offer some perspective though. 


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Jerome Allison <jallison@...>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 2:36 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
Bill, your comments are very encouraging, but the caveat about SCTs has me wondering!  (Well, I was wondering before. ;-) 

I have a C-8 and a C-11, neither of which I've used for imaging yet, so I don't know how they'll behave.  The C-11 has mirror locks, but I prefer to leave them loose so that the automated focuser can function. 

I suppose whenever a "mirror-flop" happens there will hopefully be just one lost image, but the mount will continue on faithfully.

Jerome


Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Bill Long
 

Awesome! Thanks for the clarification on the new feature. Sounds like some great stuff continues to get developed by A-P. The latest builds of APCC have been excellent. I have been doing some testing of the new Sony IMX455 chip on the GTX + QuadTCC, and with a model, I have not even had to think about how well the gear is tracking while I am doing the spacing and tilt work. It just works!


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 2:37 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
Hi Bill,

> I have not seen APCC plate solving anything, other than when APPM runs a model or if you specifically ask
> APCC to use APPM to solve and RECAL, which prompted my question. I am assuming it does this as APPM
> generates the model data, but if there is something I am missing out on I would want to know so I could turn it
> on, use it, etc.

APPM is just a data point mapper, collecting where the telescope thinks it is pointed and where it actually pointed, as well as
time, temp, pressure, and humidity. The data is all stored in plain text format.

The actual "magic" of creating pointing and tracking rate models is in APCC Pro, which uses the data in the mapping files to create
said models. This allows gains in tracking and pointing performance over time in new APCC Pro builds without necessarily having you
recollect a set of mapping points.

The declination-arc tracking rate model is a new way of calculating a more precise, dynamic tracking rate, and is similar to what
Roland has been working on in the keypad. It will be available in a future build of APCC Pro along with some other new features.
Right now the primary goal is to squash any remaining bugs found in APCC and the driver.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbc5a83abf51a471a1a9d08d804188518%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263850647377887&amp;sdata=ZLaoq2desqCn4bgMEc7VU5uXtl34YPAAa%2BkuK6oN8qs%3D&amp;reserved=0
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbc5a83abf51a471a1a9d08d804188518%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263850647382871&amp;sdata=OQqefEoWZG3RVCN%2FgeLiyDKTZb6%2BkkvB1546t42lewY%3D&amp;reserved=0
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbc5a83abf51a471a1a9d08d804188518%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263850647382871&amp;sdata=LnTxuWoeRqUj4HqhkiU%2FZv74DoojfgKVzCfhUm9UTdE%3D&amp;reserved=0

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 1:23 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> That makes perfect sense. I was asking about this comment Ray made:
>
> I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the
> same declination at different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it
> samples.
>
>
> I have not seen APCC plate solving anything, other than when APPM runs a model or if you specifically ask
> APCC to use APPM to solve and RECAL, which prompted my question. I am assuming it does this as APPM
> generates the model data, but if there is something I am missing out on I would want to know so I could turn it
> on, use it, etc.
>
> I should also add for the general discussion here, that I have used APPM/APCC modeling and unguided
> imaging for a while, and the performance of it has only gotten better and better over time. If folks are on the
> fence or are a bit skeptical about its feasibility, I strongly urge you to try it out. I know folks like to hold onto
> PHD2 (or whatever guider they use) as some holy grail of good images -- but APCC Pro + APPM does a
> remarkable job. With Nebula season upon us, now is an excellent time to get out a nice refractor (GTX,
> TEC140, etc) and get to unguided imaging with these excellent tools we have at our disposal.
>
> The results you get with it, will prompt serious consideration on what performance you can get unguided with
> mirror optics as well, which is also quite good in my experience, although I only use Corrected DK and RC
> mirror scopes. YMMV on SCT's. Newts were also quite good when I was still using the ONTC 10" one.
>
> -Bill
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via
> groups.io <chris1011@...>
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 1:05 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> All objects will move across the sky in an arc from east to west along a constant Declination value. It's not a
> feature of a mount, rather it's a feature of the way objects move across the sky. The motion along this arc is not
> constant, rather is varies by tiny amounts both in RA and Dec due to a number of items. if you can measure
> accurately enough where the object will be at any time during it's motion across the sky, you can adjust the
> driving speed of the RA and Dec axes to precisely match that of the object. And thus you can take time
> exposures along the path without having the object blurred due to drift error.
>
>
> Rolando
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Long <bill@...>
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 2:44 pm
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
>
> Does this DEC Arc feature just happen naturally in the process of generating a model?
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:31 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> > It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> > ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> > normal exposure you decide.
>
> Okay, that's what I understood from what Craig has said previously.
>
> But I think most imagers want longer exposures than 20 seconds. How would this work if a user wants to do 10
> minute exposures?
> Without an initial correction there might be enough star trailing in a 10-minute image that plate solves would fail
> and no images
> would ever get collected.
>
> I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the
> same declination at
> different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it samples. APCC
> interpolates rates between
> individual declination arcs to produce a really accurate tracking rate model throughout the sky and falls back to
> the regular
> all-sky tracking rate model if the user goes out of the area of the sky where there were no declination arcs to
> rely on. I showed
> this feature to a number of people at AIC last November.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
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>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:17 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> > ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> > normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information
> > gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits
> > that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by
> > the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every
> nth
> > image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate
> > for our purposes).
> >
> >
> > S
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates
> a
> > > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > > supposed to do, easily.
> >
> > So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
> pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
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> > physics.com/apcc-pro>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%25
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> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&a
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> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates
> a
> > > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > > supposed to do, easily.
> > > S
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> > >
> > > Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?
> > >
> > > I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like
> some
> > of
> > > the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
> > > creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
> > > 1.74"/pixel with round stars.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
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> > > physics.com/apcc-pro>
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> >
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&
> amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
> a%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8
> %3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7Cb28445df67a0495aa4ef08d8040bb3f2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
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> erved=0> >
> > >
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&
> amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
> a%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8
> %3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&d
> ata=02%7C01%7C%7Cb28445df67a0495aa4ef08d8040bb3f2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1
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> served=0> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
> > > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
> > > > ________________________________
> > > >
> > > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
> > > > <mkea13800@...>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
> > > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Steven.
> > > >
> > > > Here's a link to the manual.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fsho
> rt-
> url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49
> a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhl
> xBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fsho
> rt-
> url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb28445df67a0495aa4ef08d8040bb3f2
> %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263795592923083&sdata=JiVpN2n3VOn1FxD3
> y1hX43lzhPk2B18UJ%2FNCi9iH2RQ%3D&reserved=0>
> >
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fsh
> ort-
> url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49
> a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhl
> xBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fsho
> rt-
> url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb28445df67a0495aa4ef08d8040bb3f2
> %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263795592933068&sdata=I0xwxDJ0iyIXQFNZv
> USB0DJa3bmCW676Oe70GqXSgLU%3D&reserved=0> >
> > >
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fsh
> ort-
> url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49
> a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhl
> xBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fsho
> rt-
> url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb28445df67a0495aa4ef08d8040bb3f2
> %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263795592953059&sdata=b5BbQ3GRK9Zndbg
> OH9JXtfN%2FdqOgMyRPxx9WpaQpVrg%3D&reserved=0> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Don Rudny
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >        On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >                ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I
> have
> > > > switched to it for unguided imaging.  So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
> > > software
> > > > to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory.  The use of PinPoint is
> > requierd,
> > > > and that's easy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > >
> > > >        From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
> > > > <theresamarie11@...>
> > > >        Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
> > > >        To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > >        Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >        Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?
> > > >
> > > >        This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users.      Given how easy and
> fast
> > > > this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things
> like
> > > > plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >        Terri
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Bill,

I have not seen APCC plate solving anything, other than when APPM runs a model or if you specifically ask
APCC to use APPM to solve and RECAL, which prompted my question. I am assuming it does this as APPM
generates the model data, but if there is something I am missing out on I would want to know so I could turn it
on, use it, etc.
APPM is just a data point mapper, collecting where the telescope thinks it is pointed and where it actually pointed, as well as
time, temp, pressure, and humidity. The data is all stored in plain text format.

The actual "magic" of creating pointing and tracking rate models is in APCC Pro, which uses the data in the mapping files to create
said models. This allows gains in tracking and pointing performance over time in new APCC Pro builds without necessarily having you
recollect a set of mapping points.

The declination-arc tracking rate model is a new way of calculating a more precise, dynamic tracking rate, and is similar to what
Roland has been working on in the keypad. It will be available in a future build of APCC Pro along with some other new features.
Right now the primary goal is to squash any remaining bugs found in APCC and the driver.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Long
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 1:23 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

That makes perfect sense. I was asking about this comment Ray made:

I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the
same declination at different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it
samples.


I have not seen APCC plate solving anything, other than when APPM runs a model or if you specifically ask
APCC to use APPM to solve and RECAL, which prompted my question. I am assuming it does this as APPM
generates the model data, but if there is something I am missing out on I would want to know so I could turn it
on, use it, etc.

I should also add for the general discussion here, that I have used APPM/APCC modeling and unguided
imaging for a while, and the performance of it has only gotten better and better over time. If folks are on the
fence or are a bit skeptical about its feasibility, I strongly urge you to try it out. I know folks like to hold onto
PHD2 (or whatever guider they use) as some holy grail of good images -- but APCC Pro + APPM does a
remarkable job. With Nebula season upon us, now is an excellent time to get out a nice refractor (GTX,
TEC140, etc) and get to unguided imaging with these excellent tools we have at our disposal.

The results you get with it, will prompt serious consideration on what performance you can get unguided with
mirror optics as well, which is also quite good in my experience, although I only use Corrected DK and RC
mirror scopes. YMMV on SCT's. Newts were also quite good when I was still using the ONTC 10" one.

-Bill

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com> via
groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 1:05 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

All objects will move across the sky in an arc from east to west along a constant Declination value. It's not a
feature of a mount, rather it's a feature of the way objects move across the sky. The motion along this arc is not
constant, rather is varies by tiny amounts both in RA and Dec due to a number of items. if you can measure
accurately enough where the object will be at any time during it's motion across the sky, you can adjust the
driving speed of the RA and Dec axes to precisely match that of the object. And thus you can take time
exposures along the path without having the object blurred due to drift error.


Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@outlook.com>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues


Does this DEC Arc feature just happen naturally in the process of generating a model?

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:31 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
normal exposure you decide.
Okay, that's what I understood from what Craig has said previously.

But I think most imagers want longer exposures than 20 seconds. How would this work if a user wants to do 10
minute exposures?
Without an initial correction there might be enough star trailing in a 10-minute image that plate solves would fail
and no images
would ever get collected.

I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the
same declination at
different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it samples. APCC
interpolates rates between
individual declination arcs to produce a really accurate tracking rate model throughout the sky and falls back to
the regular
all-sky tracking rate model if the user goes out of the area of the sky where there were no declination arcs to
rely on. I showed
this feature to a number of people at AIC last November.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
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Author of PEMPro V3:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%
7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
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Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&a
mp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
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<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&d
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&reserved=0>

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:17 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information
gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits
that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by
the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every
nth
image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate
for our purposes).


S

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates
a
plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
supposed to do, easily.
So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaa
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<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
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physics.com/apcc-pro>
Author of PEMPro V3:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&;data=02%
7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%
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7263795592833119&sdata=HRt%2FMZIVvo9ZaZdB81QvxhyqRD2TpXo95JMJNGXkpQ4%3D&reserved=0>
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver:
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&a
mp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa
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FpS%2Bc%3D&amp;reserved=0
<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&d
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erved=0> >


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates
a
plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
supposed to do, easily.
S

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?

I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like
some
of
the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
1.74"/pixel with round stars.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-
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-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!

Steve

PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
<mkea13800@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Thanks, Steven.

Here's a link to the manual.


https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fsho
rt-
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url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb28445df67a0495aa4ef08d8040bb3f2
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ort-
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OH9JXtfN%2FdqOgMyRPxx9WpaQpVrg%3D&reserved=0> >


Don Rudny



On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@hotmail.com> wrote:





ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I
have
switched to it for unguided imaging. So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
software
to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory. The use of PinPoint is
requierd,
and that's easy.



________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
<theresamarie11@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues


Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?

This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users. Given how easy and
fast
this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things
like
plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?



Terri














Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

 

Bill, your comments are very encouraging, but the caveat about SCTs has me wondering!  (Well, I was wondering before. ;-) 

I have a C-8 and a C-11, neither of which I've used for imaging yet, so I don't know how they'll behave.  The C-11 has mirror locks, but I prefer to leave them loose so that the automated focuser can function. 

I suppose whenever a "mirror-flop" happens there will hopefully be just one lost image, but the mount will continue on faithfully.

Jerome


Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Max Mirot
 

I was going to ask the same thing were is the DEC arc modeling in APCC pro ?

Max


Re: USB / Serial and WIFI connection #Mach2GTO

Dominique Durand
 

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 10:41 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
Hello Dominoque,
 
here is the answer from our software engineer:
 

I cannot say what is happening.  There is no logical interaction between the USB and the WiFi.  It makes no sense, not something we’ve seen.  Only explainable it there is a RF environment/interference problem.
 
There are a bunch of questions to consider:
Are they powering the unit from a battery or from a bench power supply (potential ground loop)?
Does the behavior change if the laptop power supply is disconnected, and run only on batteries (potential ground loop eliminated)?
Does the Access Point re-appear if the USB is unplugged, or does it require a power cycle to recover the Access Point?
Are they looking for the presence of the Access Point on the same PC they connecting to USB, or are they looking at the Access Point on a cell phone (PC setting or FTDI driver problem)?
Are they trying to use the equipment in the field, or do they have internet access available?  If internet access is available, it means there is a router, and they should be connecting the CP5 to the network, not connecting something to the CPx Access Point. 
Is the WiFi antenna tangled up in harnesses to the mount (guaranteed RF problem)?
Hello Rolando,
Thank you for all its tracks to study.
After having made an 86 point modeling on a MES to improve, r I made for 5 consecutive nights photos without 3 'and 4' guidance without worries, we can say that the mach2 immediately showed "professionalism" .
I enjoy myself.Goodbye PHD2 + DO + Camera.
Tonight with a very present moon so I refined my polar alignment and I launched a larger model.I look tomorrow and tell you what it is.  What is surprising is that I am in my observatory and my GTOCP4 worked almost in the same way. PC connection via RS232 + FDTI converter.So I will also try with direct USB and Ethernet connections.
Thank you so much Rolando for having designed this wonder.

Dominique


Re: USB / Serial and WIFI connection #Mach2GTO

Roland Christen
 

Hello Dominoque,

here is the answer from our software engineer:


I cannot say what is happening.  There is no logical interaction between the USB and the WiFi.  It makes no sense, not something we’ve seen.  Only explainable it there is a RF environment/interference problem.
 
There are a bunch of questions to consider:
Are they powering the unit from a battery or from a bench power supply (potential ground loop)?
Does the behavior change if the laptop power supply is disconnected, and run only on batteries (potential ground loop eliminated)?
Does the Access Point re-appear if the USB is unplugged, or does it require a power cycle to recover the Access Point?
Are they looking for the presence of the Access Point on the same PC they connecting to USB, or are they looking at the Access Point on a cell phone (PC setting or FTDI driver problem)?
Are they trying to use the equipment in the field, or do they have internet access available?  If internet access is available, it means there is a router, and they should be connecting the CP5 to the network, not connecting something to the CPx Access Point. 
Is the WiFi antenna tangled up in harnesses to the mount (guaranteed RF problem)?
 
Mike



-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique Durand via groups.io <dom33.durand@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 10:13 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] USB / Serial and WIFI connection #Mach2GTO

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 04:29 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
Yes, it is possible to have both active at the same time.
I also believe it Rolando, because I am sure that with my mach1 GTOCP4 it worked. But how? There I do not understand, when I connect the USB cable to my PC the GTOCP5_Net_25 network which was displayed in my WIFI networks disappears.


Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Bill Long
 

That makes perfect sense. I was asking about this comment Ray made:

I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the same declination at different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it samples.

I have not seen APCC plate solving anything, other than when APPM runs a model or if you specifically ask APCC to use APPM to solve and RECAL, which prompted my question. I am assuming it does this as APPM generates the model data, but if there is something I am missing out on I would want to know so I could turn it on, use it, etc.

I should also add for the general discussion here, that I have used APPM/APCC modeling and unguided imaging for a while, and the performance of it has only gotten better and better over time. If folks are on the fence or are a bit skeptical about its feasibility, I strongly urge you to try it out. I know folks like to hold onto PHD2 (or whatever guider they use) as some holy grail of good images -- but APCC Pro + APPM does a remarkable job. With Nebula season upon us, now is an excellent time to get out a nice refractor (GTX, TEC140, etc) and get to unguided imaging with these excellent tools we have at our disposal.

The results you get with it, will prompt serious consideration on what performance you can get unguided with mirror optics as well, which is also quite good in my experience, although I only use Corrected DK and RC mirror scopes. YMMV on SCT's. Newts were also quite good when I was still using the ONTC 10" one.

-Bill


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 1:05 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
All objects will move across the sky in an arc from east to west along a constant Declination value. It's not a feature of a mount, rather it's a feature of the way objects move across the sky. The motion along this arc is not constant, rather is varies by tiny amounts both in RA and Dec due to a number of items. if you can measure accurately enough where the object will be at any time during it's motion across the sky, you can adjust the driving speed of the RA and Dec axes to precisely match that of the object. And thus you can take time exposures along the path without having the object blurred due to drift error.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Does this DEC Arc feature just happen naturally in the process of generating a model?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:31 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
> It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> normal exposure you decide.

Okay, that's what I understood from what Craig has said previously.

But I think most imagers want longer exposures than 20 seconds. How would this work if a user wants to do 10 minute exposures?
Without an initial correction there might be enough star trailing in a 10-minute image that plate solves would fail and no images
would ever get collected.

I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the same declination at
different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it samples. APCC interpolates rates between
individual declination arcs to produce a really accurate tracking rate model throughout the sky and falls back to the regular
all-sky tracking rate model if the user goes out of the area of the sky where there were no declination arcs to rely on. I showed
this feature to a number of people at AIC last November.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=X8qCOIa5FTpq5lCZvKnM0wYSKLB0aPCBrnJAfmyx16c%3D&amp;reserved=0
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=7sehUMiUOOLkeiqHLI51KAd7TKlmw9uir%2B%2FKXp%2FpS%2Bc%3D&amp;reserved=0

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:17 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information
> gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits
> that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by
> the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every nth
> image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate
> for our purposes).
>
>
> S
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > supposed to do, easily.
>
> So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=u15XsF1OXW8DUEyRxhaTPinhJwBL%2BcMhXWOgI2pNYKo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> physics.com/apcc-pro>
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=X8qCOIa5FTpq5lCZvKnM0wYSKLB0aPCBrnJAfmyx16c%3D&amp;reserved=0
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=7sehUMiUOOLkeiqHLI51KAd7TKlmw9uir%2B%2FKXp%2FpS%2Bc%3D&amp;reserved=0
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>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > supposed to do, easily.
> > S
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> >
> > Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?
> >
> > I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like some
> of
> > the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
> > creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
> > 1.74"/pixel with round stars.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=0XdQIUuhMxEJCLHhxskdPfjkhc4RRCj%2BjhutK0hFztY%3D&amp;reserved=0>  <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=fOf0%2FXS2UbxmIBxrzXQhsR%2BgzQVIrErsPcAuM7Y4kpg%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > physics.com/apcc-pro>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=CSQprmMipIEnVHBp9qm%2FAbEuiQnq8LEvdecisFXYmYs%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
> > > <mkea13800@...>
> > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Thanks, Steven.
> > >
> > > Here's a link to the manual.
> > >
> > >
> > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > >
> > >
> > > Don Rudny
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >                ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I have
> > > switched to it for unguided imaging.  So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
> > software
> > > to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory.  The use of PinPoint is
> requierd,
> > > and that's easy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > >        From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
> > > <theresamarie11@...>
> > >        Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
> > >        To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > >        Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > >
> > >        Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?
> > >
> > >        This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users.      Given how easy and fast
> > > this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things like
> > > plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        Terri
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Roland Christen
 

All objects will move across the sky in an arc from east to west along a constant Declination value. It's not a feature of a mount, rather it's a feature of the way objects move across the sky. The motion along this arc is not constant, rather is varies by tiny amounts both in RA and Dec due to a number of items. if you can measure accurately enough where the object will be at any time during it's motion across the sky, you can adjust the driving speed of the RA and Dec axes to precisely match that of the object. And thus you can take time exposures along the path without having the object blurred due to drift error.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Does this DEC Arc feature just happen naturally in the process of generating a model?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:31 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
> It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> normal exposure you decide.

Okay, that's what I understood from what Craig has said previously.

But I think most imagers want longer exposures than 20 seconds. How would this work if a user wants to do 10 minute exposures?
Without an initial correction there might be enough star trailing in a 10-minute image that plate solves would fail and no images
would ever get collected.

I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the same declination at
different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it samples. APCC interpolates rates between
individual declination arcs to produce a really accurate tracking rate model throughout the sky and falls back to the regular
all-sky tracking rate model if the user goes out of the area of the sky where there were no declination arcs to rely on. I showed
this feature to a number of people at AIC last November.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:17 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information
> gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits
> that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by
> the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every nth
> image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate
> for our purposes).
>
>
> S
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > supposed to do, easily.
>
> So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=u15XsF1OXW8DUEyRxhaTPinhJwBL%2BcMhXWOgI2pNYKo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> physics.com/apcc-pro>
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=X8qCOIa5FTpq5lCZvKnM0wYSKLB0aPCBrnJAfmyx16c%3D&amp;reserved=0
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=7sehUMiUOOLkeiqHLI51KAd7TKlmw9uir%2B%2FKXp%2FpS%2Bc%3D&amp;reserved=0
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>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > supposed to do, easily.
> > S
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> >
> > Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?
> >
> > I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like some
> of
> > the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
> > creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
> > 1.74"/pixel with round stars.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=0XdQIUuhMxEJCLHhxskdPfjkhc4RRCj%2BjhutK0hFztY%3D&amp;reserved=0>  <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=fOf0%2FXS2UbxmIBxrzXQhsR%2BgzQVIrErsPcAuM7Y4kpg%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > physics.com/apcc-pro>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=CSQprmMipIEnVHBp9qm%2FAbEuiQnq8LEvdecisFXYmYs%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8%3D&amp;reserved=0
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> > <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
> > > <mkea13800@...>
> > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Thanks, Steven.
> > >
> > > Here's a link to the manual.
> > >
> > >
> > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > >
> > >
> > > Don Rudny
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >                ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I have
> > > switched to it for unguided imaging.  So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
> > software
> > > to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory.  The use of PinPoint is
> requierd,
> > > and that's easy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > >        From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
> > > <theresamarie11@...>
> > >        Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
> > >        To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > >        Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > >
> > >        Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?
> > >
> > >        This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users.      Given how easy and fast
> > > this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things like
> > > plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        Terri
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Bill Long
 

Does this DEC Arc feature just happen naturally in the process of generating a model?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:31 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
> It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> normal exposure you decide.

Okay, that's what I understood from what Craig has said previously.

But I think most imagers want longer exposures than 20 seconds. How would this work if a user wants to do 10 minute exposures?
Without an initial correction there might be enough star trailing in a 10-minute image that plate solves would fail and no images
would ever get collected.

I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the same declination at
different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it samples. APCC interpolates rates between
individual declination arcs to produce a really accurate tracking rate model throughout the sky and falls back to the regular
all-sky tracking rate model if the user goes out of the area of the sky where there were no declination arcs to rely on. I showed
this feature to a number of people at AIC last November.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=X8qCOIa5FTpq5lCZvKnM0wYSKLB0aPCBrnJAfmyx16c%3D&amp;reserved=0
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=7sehUMiUOOLkeiqHLI51KAd7TKlmw9uir%2B%2FKXp%2FpS%2Bc%3D&amp;reserved=0

> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:17 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information
> gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits
> that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by
> the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every nth
> image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate
> for our purposes).
>
>
> S
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > supposed to do, easily.
>
> So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=u15XsF1OXW8DUEyRxhaTPinhJwBL%2BcMhXWOgI2pNYKo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> physics.com/apcc-pro>
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=X8qCOIa5FTpq5lCZvKnM0wYSKLB0aPCBrnJAfmyx16c%3D&amp;reserved=0
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=7sehUMiUOOLkeiqHLI51KAd7TKlmw9uir%2B%2FKXp%2FpS%2Bc%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=7sehUMiUOOLkeiqHLI51KAd7TKlmw9uir%2B%2FKXp%2FpS%2Bc%3D&amp;reserved=0>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > supposed to do, easily.
> > S
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> >
> > Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?
> >
> > I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like some
> of
> > the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
> > creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
> > 1.74"/pixel with round stars.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=0XdQIUuhMxEJCLHhxskdPfjkhc4RRCj%2BjhutK0hFztY%3D&amp;reserved=0>  <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=fOf0%2FXS2UbxmIBxrzXQhsR%2BgzQVIrErsPcAuM7Y4kpg%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > physics.com/apcc-pro>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=CSQprmMipIEnVHBp9qm%2FAbEuiQnq8LEvdecisFXYmYs%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
> > > <mkea13800@...>
> > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Thanks, Steven.
> > >
> > > Here's a link to the manual.
> > >
> > >
> > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > >
> > >
> > > Don Rudny
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >                ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I have
> > > switched to it for unguided imaging.  So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
> > software
> > > to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory.  The use of PinPoint is
> requierd,
> > > and that's easy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > >        From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
> > > <theresamarie11@...>
> > >        Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
> > >        To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > >        Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > >
> > >        Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?
> > >
> > >        This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users.      Given how easy and fast
> > > this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things like
> > > plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        Terri
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: USB / Serial and WIFI connection #Mach2GTO

Roland Christen
 

I will find out for you.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique Durand via groups.io <dom33.durand@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 10:13 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] USB / Serial and WIFI connection #Mach2GTO

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 04:29 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
Yes, it is possible to have both active at the same time.
I also believe it Rolando, because I am sure that with my mach1 GTOCP4 it worked. But how? There I do not understand, when I connect the USB cable to my PC the GTOCP5_Net_25 network which was displayed in my WIFI networks disappears.


Re: USB / Serial and WIFI connection #Mach2GTO

Dominique Durand
 

On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 04:29 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:
Yes, it is possible to have both active at the same time.
I also believe it Rolando, because I am sure that with my mach1 GTOCP4 it worked. But how? There I do not understand, when I connect the USB cable to my PC the GTOCP5_Net_25 network which was displayed in my WIFI networks disappears.


Re: USB / Serial and WIFI connection #Mach2GTO

Roland Christen
 


The question is therefore is it possible to have active at the same time, a USB / Serie connection on the PC and a connection by WIFI on the smartphone?
Yes, it is possible to have both active at the same time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Dominique Durand via groups.io <dom33.durand@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Tue, May 26, 2020 5:28 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] USB / Serial and WIFI connection #Mach2GTO

[Edited Message Follows]
Hello,
I had a Mach1 GTOCP4 for 1 year and I used it in my observatory. I happened to use the WIFI connection to do positioning with Skysafari, but I did not if at the same time I had the USB / Serie connection active with the connection on my PC and APPC open.With my new Mach2 and the GTOCP5, I already connected by WIFI with Skysafari, but since with the connection to the PC (during the photo sessions) I noticed that the access point was not active so invisible in the network WIFI whether from PC or smartphone, however it appears when APPC is disconnected from the mount.It seems to me to have understood that the USB / Serie connection could be done by a virtual port. True or false? This allows to connect to the GTOCP5 in another way (except keypad) and therefore can be by WIFI.The question is therefore is it possible to have active at the same time, a USB / Serie connection on the PC and a connection by WIFI on the smartphone?

Thanks

Dominique


Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Roland Christen
 

At this time, no.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Max Mirot via groups.io <titansmoons@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 8:04 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Roland,

Is there plans to have available this without the keypad ?


Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Roland Christen
 

20 seconds isn't really long enough to capture drift unless the seeing is perfect. It takes at least 3 minutes to get a good handle of the drift at any one spot in the sky.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Steven <steven447@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 12:16 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every nth image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate for our purposes).

S


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
> Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> supposed to do, easily.

So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> supposed to do, easily.
> S
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
>
> Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?
>
> I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like some of
> the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
> creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
> 1.74"/pixel with round stars.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro <https://www.astro-
> physics.com/apcc-pro>
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> <https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
> > <mkea13800@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > Thanks, Steven.
> >
> > Here's a link to the manual.
> >
> >
> > https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf
> <https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf>
> >
> >
> > Don Rudny
> >
> >
> >
> >        On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I have
> > switched to it for unguided imaging.  So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
> software
> > to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory.  The use of PinPoint is requierd,
> > and that's easy.
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >        From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
> > <theresamarie11@...>
> >        Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
> >        To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >        Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> >
> >        Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?
> >
> >        This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users.      Given how easy and fast
> > this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things like
> > plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?
> >
> >
> >
> >        Terri
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Ray Gralak
 

It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
normal exposure you decide.
Okay, that's what I understood from what Craig has said previously.

But I think most imagers want longer exposures than 20 seconds. How would this work if a user wants to do 10 minute exposures?
Without an initial correction there might be enough star trailing in a 10-minute image that plate solves would fail and no images
would ever get collected.

I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the same declination at
different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it samples. APCC interpolates rates between
individual declination arcs to produce a really accurate tracking rate model throughout the sky and falls back to the regular
all-sky tracking rate model if the user goes out of the area of the sky where there were no declination arcs to rely on. I showed
this feature to a number of people at AIC last November.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:17 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information
gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits
that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by
the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every nth
image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate
for our purposes).


S

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
supposed to do, easily.
So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro <https://www.astro-
physics.com/apcc-pro>
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
<https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
supposed to do, easily.
S

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?

I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like some
of
the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
1.74"/pixel with round stars.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
<https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro> <https://www.astro-
physics.com/apcc-pro>
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
<https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
<https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!

Steve

PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
<mkea13800@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Thanks, Steven.

Here's a link to the manual.


https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf
<https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf>
<https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf>


Don Rudny



On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@hotmail.com> wrote:





ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I have
switched to it for unguided imaging. So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
software
to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory. The use of PinPoint is
requierd,
and that's easy.



________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
<theresamarie11@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues


Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?

This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users. Given how easy and fast
this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things like
plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?



Terri










Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Max Mirot
 

Roland,

Is there plans to have available this without the keypad ?


Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Steven
 

It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every nth image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate for our purposes).

S


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
> Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> supposed to do, easily.

So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> supposed to do, easily.
> S
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
>
> Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?
>
> I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like some of
> the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
> creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
> 1.74"/pixel with round stars.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro <https://www.astro-
> physics.com/apcc-pro>
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> <https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
> > <mkea13800@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > Thanks, Steven.
> >
> > Here's a link to the manual.
> >
> >
> > https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf
> <https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf>
> >
> >
> > Don Rudny
> >
> >
> >
> >        On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I have
> > switched to it for unguided imaging.  So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
> software
> > to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory.  The use of PinPoint is requierd,
> > and that's easy.
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> >        From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
> > <theresamarie11@...>
> >        Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
> >        To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> >        Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> >
> >        Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?
> >
> >        This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users.      Given how easy and fast
> > this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things like
> > plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?
> >
> >
> >
> >        Terri
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>





Re: Unguided with pointing model

 

I'll be spending my next few days surfing the PHD2 forum. Thanks Brian  :)

On 5/28/20 7:02 PM, Brian Valente wrote:
Hi Mojo

We're not so far apart on our setups:

i have an OAG with Lodestar that is 752 x 582 8.4u @840mm focal length

Your camera has the TC-237 tracking CCD (657 x 495 pixels at 7.4u)  @ 1620mm focal length

yes of course you're imaging at 2x focal length (yes i'm jealous :) ) but PHD also has noise reduction, star saturation detection, minimum star size, etc. to eliminate erroneous star selection. might be worth a visit to PHD forums?

i'll stop on this now haha



On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 4:01 PM Mojo Jones <mojo@...> wrote:
Thanks for chiming in Brian! I'm sure much of my difficulty comes from using the built-in off-axis guide camera on my ST-4000XCM, so I don't have the privilege of a wider-field guide scope. Quite often this past week I haven't had a wide enough field to find a bright enough star to peek up above the sky glow. PHD2 presents a gnarly grey noisy field, and "auto select" latches onto something that's often not a star at all.

I'd love to tweak PHD2 so it doesn't latch onto non-stars. I built a bad pixel map.

On 5/28/2020 12:58 PM, Brian Valente wrote:
Hi Mojo

>>>My biggest bugaboo in these skies is finding a suitable guide star. PHD2 will lock onto any clump of noise and hunt around the sky trying to guide on it.

I'm not sure what issue you are having, but i image in the san fernando valley (the worst) and i have no problems finding guidestars, even with a simple lodestar x2. PHD has a number of techniques and filters to rule out non-stars for star selection, so i'm surprised you are having these kinds of issues

you might consider posting your logs to the PHD forums for feedback?

Brian


On 5/28/2020 12:48 PM, Mojo Jones wrote:

My biggest bugaboo in these skies is finding a suitable guide star. PHD2 will lock onto any clump of noise and hunt around the sky trying to guide on it.






--
Brian 



Brian Valente


Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Ray Gralak
 

Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
supposed to do, easily.
So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
supposed to do, easily.
S

________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@gralak.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?

I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like some of
the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
1.74"/pixel with round stars.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro <https://www.astro-
physics.com/apcc-pro>
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
<https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!

Steve

PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
<mkea13800@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Thanks, Steven.

Here's a link to the manual.


https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf
<https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf>


Don Rudny



On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@hotmail.com> wrote:





ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I have
switched to it for unguided imaging. So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
software
to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory. The use of PinPoint is requierd,
and that's easy.



________________________________

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
<theresamarie11@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues


Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?

This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users. Given how easy and fast
this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things like
plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?



Terri





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