Date   

Mach2 quick update

Roland Christen
 

Hi Astronuts,

Just a quick update on the progress of Mach2 mounts. We are still working at AP to get mounts out the door. Although the factory itself is shut down for now, we have a number of employees working at home assembling parts and sub-assemblies for the mounts. Fortunately our suppliers are still able to ship parts such as motors, bearings, gears, fasteners, so we are in good shape there. I'm doing all the final assemblies and testing, which is coming right along. We should be able to ship more out in the coming week, so please be patient.

Meanwhile I am also testing the mounts under real sky conditions with a fairly big scope and camera so I can make some guidelines on the best way to do guided and unguided imaging. More on that later.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Ray Gralak
 

Wayne, yes you can and should leave tracking rate correction on.

You might be able to track ISS but the computer time has to be perfect and ISS not have changed course after you acquire coordinates for it.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Wayne Hixson via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 6:36 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Ray would I still leave tracking correction on while using Horizons?

Just tried Horizons for tracking the BepiColumbo mission. Got it to work but would have to cut down a number of
trees and neighbors house!

Can you use that for ISS passes? What time units would work?

Wayne
On Apr 9, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:



PS another model related question - do you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?
Yes, would have to as it would override the lunar/solar setting.

A better option is to use Horizons (the application included with APCC) to get the dual axis motions of the moon
or sun. Then tracking will be much more accurate than the mount's built in solar/lunar rates.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Wayne Hixson via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 12:44 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

PS another model related question - do you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?




Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Wayne Hixson
 

Ray would I still leave tracking correction on while using Horizons?

Just tried Horizons for tracking the BepiColumbo mission. Got it to work but would have to cut down a number of trees and neighbors house!

Can you use that for ISS passes? What time units would work?

Wayne

On Apr 9, 2020, at 6:22 PM, Ray Gralak <groups3@...> wrote:



PS another model related question - do you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?
Yes, would have to as it would override the lunar/solar setting.

A better option is to use Horizons (the application included with APCC) to get the dual axis motions of the moon or sun. Then tracking will be much more accurate than the mount's built in solar/lunar rates.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Wayne Hixson via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 12:44 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

PS another model related question - do you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?



Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Ray Gralak
 

PS another model related question - do you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?
Yes, would have to as it would override the lunar/solar setting.

A better option is to use Horizons (the application included with APCC) to get the dual axis motions of the moon or sun. Then tracking will be much more accurate than the mount's built in solar/lunar rates.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Wayne Hixson via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 12:44 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

PS another model related question - do you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Ray Gralak
 

Wayne,

Have you tried turning down aggressiveness? You may be chasing the seeing.

Also, have you tried back to back switching between model on versus model off? It could be seeing was worse at that time?

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Wayne Hixson via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 11:35 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with
round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using
the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m
using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without
guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering.


wayne




Re: Dome pier side is wrong with POTH

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Max,

Have you tried configuring Passive mode in APPM's Dome Settings?

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Max Mirot via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 5:50 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: [ap-gto] Dome pier side is wrong with POTH

I was trying to using POTH with APPM
It is not longer aligning with the dome.
Worked fine with APPM in 2 months ago

It looks to me like the dome thinks it is on the wrong pier side.
The scope driver is reporting the correct pier side and the scope is also pointing normally

I also use Voyager's Robodome feature to slave the dome using the same dome geometry settings as POTH.
It is aligning fine.
Unfortunately, the Voyage feature is not an ASCOM hub. It stop tracking and does coordinate motion during
with the dome and scope with an APPM run

Suggestions ?

Max


Dome pier side is wrong with POTH

Max Mirot
 

I was trying to using POTH with APPM
It is not longer aligning with the dome.
Worked fine with APPM in 2 months ago

It looks to me like the dome thinks it is on the wrong pier side. 
The scope driver is reporting the correct pier side and the scope is also pointing normally

I also use Voyager's Robodome feature to slave the dome using  the same dome geometry settings as POTH. 
It is aligning fine.
Unfortunately,  the Voyage feature is not an ASCOM hub.  It stop tracking and does coordinate motion during with the dome and scope with an APPM run

Suggestions ?

Max


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Roland Christen
 

Yes, that works.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 3:11 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

What I'm doing now is hand-tightening all clutches as hard as I can, but I will make sure I keep them consistent


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Wayne Hixson
 

What I'm doing now is hand-tightening all clutches as hard as I can, but I will make sure I keep them consistent


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Roland Christen
 

That's a question for ray Gralack, but I would assume that you would set the tracking rate to lunar or solar and the model would automatically not apply corrections.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

PS another model related question - do  you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Roland Christen
 

Also another thing - on the Mach2 make sure that all 4 clutch knobs are equally tightened, especially in Dec. If you have only one or two snugged you may get slightly longer reversal delay in some parts of the sky. You want the gearwheel to be fully tightened to the mount's main shaft for best guide results.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:41 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

I will check that delay setting, although I'm sure I didn't have a delay set in MaximDL. Yes definitely spiky! Roland, I'll give it another try tonight and check in with you tomorrow, I don't  want  to take any of what I'm sure is precious time until I get th e data you need. What data should I get?

Wayne 


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Wayne Hixson
 

PS another model related question - do  you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Wayne Hixson
 

I will check that delay setting, although I'm sure I didn't have a delay set in MaximDL. Yes definitely spiky! Roland, I'll give it another try tonight and check in with you tomorrow, I don't  want  to take any of what I'm sure is precious time until I get th e data you need. What data should I get?

Wayne 


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Phillip Klein
 

I just made that entry. Anxious to see the difference in guiding when the skies clear.

Thank you so very much!!!

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Under "Camera Settings":
Time Lapse (ms). Set it to 3000 for a 3 second delay between exposures.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Hi Craig,

Yes I do see the spiking as you described. Could you please tell me where to find the setting to have a delay? I did not see it when looking under the Brain in PhD2.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:59 AM Craig Anderson <craig@...> wrote:
Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...> wrote:
I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 

wayne





Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Roland Christen
 

Under "Camera Settings":
Time Lapse (ms). Set it to 3000 for a 3 second delay between exposures.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Hi Craig,

Yes I do see the spiking as you described. Could you please tell me where to find the setting to have a delay? I did not see it when looking under the Brain in PhD2.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:59 AM Craig Anderson <craig@...> wrote:
Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 

wayne





Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Roland Christen
 

Absolutely, with an encoder mount you will want to have a delay between guide pulses. The reason is that it takes a moment for the axis to fully respond and reverse in Dec when a command comes in. In an encoder mount each command will be fully accommodated by the encoder loop, whereas in a non-encoder mount it may take several move commands for the axis to finally fully reverse. If you start sending the same move command in an encoder mount without waiting for the first one to finish, you will definitely overshoot.

A 2 - 3 second delay between commands is a good recommendation. There is no periodic error that you need to chase in RA and the Dec axis isn't going anywhere. This assumes that you don't have very poor polar alignment that causes the axes to drift at high rates. I have had perfect guiding with 20 seconds between exposures using our 1600 encoder mount with the 17"F8 astrograph.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Anderson <craig@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 1:59 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 

wayne





Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Phillip Klein
 

Hi Craig,

Yes I do see the spiking as you described. Could you please tell me where to find the setting to have a delay? I did not see it when looking under the Brain in PhD2.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:59 AM Craig Anderson <craig@...> wrote:
Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 


wayne





Carry handle for the 92mm Stowaway

Harley Davidson
 

I came up with a removable handle to safely carry and mount the 92mm Stowaway refractor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyZPFgAQ0iQ

tony


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Craig Anderson
 

Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 


wayne





Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Phillip Klein
 

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 


wayne

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