Date   

Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Wayne Hixson
 

PS another model related question - do  you turn it off when doing lunar or solar imaging?


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Wayne Hixson
 

I will check that delay setting, although I'm sure I didn't have a delay set in MaximDL. Yes definitely spiky! Roland, I'll give it another try tonight and check in with you tomorrow, I don't  want  to take any of what I'm sure is precious time until I get th e data you need. What data should I get?

Wayne 


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Phillip Klein
 

I just made that entry. Anxious to see the difference in guiding when the skies clear.

Thank you so very much!!!

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:19 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Under "Camera Settings":
Time Lapse (ms). Set it to 3000 for a 3 second delay between exposures.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Hi Craig,

Yes I do see the spiking as you described. Could you please tell me where to find the setting to have a delay? I did not see it when looking under the Brain in PhD2.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:59 AM Craig Anderson <craig@...> wrote:
Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...> wrote:
I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 

wayne





Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Roland Christen
 

Under "Camera Settings":
Time Lapse (ms). Set it to 3000 for a 3 second delay between exposures.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 2:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Hi Craig,

Yes I do see the spiking as you described. Could you please tell me where to find the setting to have a delay? I did not see it when looking under the Brain in PhD2.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:59 AM Craig Anderson <craig@...> wrote:
Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 

wayne





Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Roland Christen
 

Absolutely, with an encoder mount you will want to have a delay between guide pulses. The reason is that it takes a moment for the axis to fully respond and reverse in Dec when a command comes in. In an encoder mount each command will be fully accommodated by the encoder loop, whereas in a non-encoder mount it may take several move commands for the axis to finally fully reverse. If you start sending the same move command in an encoder mount without waiting for the first one to finish, you will definitely overshoot.

A 2 - 3 second delay between commands is a good recommendation. There is no periodic error that you need to chase in RA and the Dec axis isn't going anywhere. This assumes that you don't have very poor polar alignment that causes the axes to drift at high rates. I have had perfect guiding with 20 seconds between exposures using our 1600 encoder mount with the 17"F8 astrograph.

Roland



-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Anderson <craig@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 1:59 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 

wayne





Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Phillip Klein
 

Hi Craig,

Yes I do see the spiking as you described. Could you please tell me where to find the setting to have a delay? I did not see it when looking under the Brain in PhD2.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:59 AM Craig Anderson <craig@...> wrote:
Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 


wayne





Carry handle for the 92mm Stowaway

Harley Davidson
 

I came up with a removable handle to safely carry and mount the 92mm Stowaway refractor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyZPFgAQ0iQ

tony


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Craig Anderson
 

Phillip,

Is your auto-guiding graphc really “spiky”, flipping back and forth over the centerline? If it is, then you might try introducing a short delay after each auto-guiding correction. I noticed that adding a 3 second delay after auto-guiding corrections on my AP1600 AE mount significantly smoothed it out my auto-guiding. I’m not sure why, but it was pretty noticeable. It was almost like the mount was always overshooting, and adding that delay eliminated that affect. Changing my auto-guider exposure didn’t make much difference, but adding that delay seemed to do the trick.

I hope that helps,

-Craig

On Apr 9, 2020, at 2:54 PM, Phillip Klein <klein.phillip@...> wrote:

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 


wayne





Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Phillip Klein
 

Hi Wayne,

Recently, I upgraded to APCCPro and used the pointing model as well. While tthe PhD2 guiding graph did improve t(flatten) he RMS value remains around 1" like your experience. I would be interested to learn if there is something I can do to improve the guiding.

Thank you,

Phillip

On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 


wayne


Re: Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Roland Christen
 

Contact me directly so that our software engineer and myself can study your results.

Roland Christen



-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Hixson via groups.io <wayneh9026@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 1:34 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 

wayne


Autoguiding with a Sky Model in Place?

Wayne Hixson
 

I recently completed my first APPM model with my Mach2. It really appears to help my pointing and guiding, with round stars on 5-minute unguided subs. However when I tried to introduce guiding with PHD2 or MaximDL, using the same settings as before, my RMS jumps to 1” or more where I was getting under 0.6” without the model. I’m using an OAG with Ultrastar on a 130GTX and f/6.7 field flattener. Any suggestions? Maybe just go without guiding? I like to use for minor corrections and dithering. 


wayne


Re: Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

Masera, David
 

The Moonraker is an 8 inch aperture.

 

 

David

 

 

From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> On Behalf Of uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2020 9:33 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

 

The three mounts are 1600 mounts.

What is the aperture of the Moonraker?

 

Rolando

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Huerkamp <Mallincamusa@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 9:08 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

I got the chance to visit Lowell last June just before the Grand Canyon Star party, and Sarah Burcher, Lowell's outreach coordinator, gave me a tour of GODO.  At the time the roll off building was waiting for its skin, the five piers had been poured for the two refractors, the SCT and two RCs.  They were still waiting for the delivery of the large DOB from StarStructure.  And the observing plaza still had not been poured.  The facility was ready to go in early October, and I was going to visit with Sarah this June after the 2020 GCSP to see the scopes in operation.  I was so looking forward to observing through the Moonraker refractor mounted on the AP mount.  Alas, it looks like that will not occur due to the covid pandemic.  Which AP mounts were utilized for the TEC refractor, Moonraker refractor and Meade SCT?

Jack Huerkamp




This message (including any attachments) is confidential and intended for a specific individual and purpose. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and delete this message.


Re: Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

David Albers <humealbers@...>
 

Looks like the Moonraker is 8" aperture...

https://lowell.edu/giovale-open-deck-observatory/telescopes/


Re: Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

Roland Christen
 

The three mounts are 1600 mounts.
What is the aperture of the Moonraker?

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Huerkamp <Mallincamusa@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Apr 9, 2020 9:08 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

I got the chance to visit Lowell last June just before the Grand Canyon Star party, and Sarah Burcher, Lowell's outreach coordinator, gave me a tour of GODO.  At the time the roll off building was waiting for its skin, the five piers had been poured for the two refractors, the SCT and two RCs.  They were still waiting for the delivery of the large DOB from StarStructure.  And the observing plaza still had not been poured.  The facility was ready to go in early October, and I was going to visit with Sarah this June after the 2020 GCSP to see the scopes in operation.  I was so looking forward to observing through the Moonraker refractor mounted on the AP mount.  Alas, it looks like that will not occur due to the covid pandemic.  Which AP mounts were utilized for the TEC refractor, Moonraker refractor and Meade SCT?

Jack Huerkamp


Re: Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

Jack Huerkamp
 

I got the chance to visit Lowell last June just before the Grand Canyon Star party, and Sarah Burcher, Lowell's outreach coordinator, gave me a tour of GODO.  At the time the roll off building was waiting for its skin, the five piers had been poured for the two refractors, the SCT and two RCs.  They were still waiting for the delivery of the large DOB from StarStructure.  And the observing plaza still had not been poured.  The facility was ready to go in early October, and I was going to visit with Sarah this June after the 2020 GCSP to see the scopes in operation.  I was so looking forward to observing through the Moonraker refractor mounted on the AP mount.  Alas, it looks like that will not occur due to the covid pandemic.  Which AP mounts were utilized for the TEC refractor, Moonraker refractor and Meade SCT?

Jack Huerkamp


Re: Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

Don Anderson
 

Very cool facility.

Don Anderson


On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 10:33:59 a.m. MDT, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> wrote:



Re: [ap-ug] Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

thefamily90 Phillips
 

👍🪐🌗🔭


From: main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io> on behalf of Roland Christen via groups.io <chris1011@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:33:53 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>; main@ap-ug.groups.io <main@ap-ug.groups.io>
Subject: [ap-ug] Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory
 


Lowel Observatory with a new outdoor public observatory

Roland Christen
 


Re: Com ports #APCC

Phillip Klein
 

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your response and with the advice from Steven in New Zealand the problem has been fixed.
In device manager I right clicked on the Comport(3), and selected properties and was able to select another ComPort. from the dropdown list for the device or Box.
After opening the application I updated the firmware and noticed it identified the newly assigned ComPort. Now all the devices function simultaneously.
Thank you to everyone that provided suggestions.
Clear skies to all!!!




On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 11:00 AM Mike Dodd <mike@...> wrote:
On 4/7/2020 12:09 PM, Phillip Klein wrote:
> I did try selecting but the only choices were the ports already
> associated with the camera and focuser. There were no other choices.

How did your software know to make those associations?

Somewhere, sometime, SOMEONE had to tell the software what ports to use.
Does your software have a Detect button for the camera or focuser?

Is here a configuration file you can edit in Notepad to change the
ports? Search your hard drive for files with a name ending in ".ini" or
".cfg" and see if anything looks promising.

Or look in your software for an option to save the configuration, and
check the path it offers.

--- Mike






Re: Mach1 (spring loaded vers) has gear slop?

Ron Kramer
 

Thanks Rolando. I wondered if it was "sky" but seems to have been bad a month or more.  But you're sharing pretty much same skies as me. So I'll see how it goes.  Thanks for the reply. 
Still my shots have been fine.  (does this new group allow images?)   I HOPE... Y4 and whirlpool during recent 1/2 moon.

C-2019 Y4 Atlas-Small.jpg  

whirlppool_final---CROPPED 15300.0s-AR_LN_8.0_4.0_9-x_1.0_LZ3-NS-full-qua-mult-sc_BWMV_nor-AAD-RE-noMBB-mod-lpc-cbg-mod-lpc-cbg-lpc-cbg-St.jpg


On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 7:44 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via groups.io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

So my question is there another method or documentation of what I might do to take that play out of the RA mesh?
There is no reason to take out any play in RA. That axis is always running in one direction and is never reversed, so play or backlash is not an issue. It doesn't come into play at all during tracking or guiding. Leave it be.

Run Guiding Assistant and look at the natural star motion when the mount is not being guided. It will tell you instantly what the stars are doing, how much they are moving due to atmospheric motion. If you get 1 arc sec RMS of natural star motion (scintillation) then no amount of guiding will get you less error. I recently checked my skies here in Northern Illinois when it was clear on Saturday. Stars were moving around so much (probably jet Steam) that i had 0.8 arc sec RMS values of just scintillation. I could not get better then that all night long with any guide settings. It's just the way things are in spring time around here.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Apr 6, 2020 5:41 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Mach1 (spring loaded vers) has gear slop?

I was having superb performance over the last year. Total RMS guiding down around .24 - .32
I had some time away while swapping scopes from V1 RASA 11 to a V2 RASA 11. (very similar) V2 seems heavier. I rebalanced.
My guiding is now at best  .99 and averages around 1.50.  Good enough for decent stars at my image scale but it makes me concerned. The corrections are very abrupt. I've used PHD2 for 3 years and know it quite well for tuning. I can't seem to get it to smooth out.
I believe there was a PHD2 update during this  (good to bad shift). so it's hard to know if it's the mount or phd2. 
With that said - I feel there is a good bit of play in the RA mesh. I have taken the slop out before using the 'thumb pressure" tuning trick.  That isn't working this time.  I move the weights/top of teh scope a good bit that I think is the culprit. 
I opened the RA end of the box where the 3 gears are. (the middle gear turns freely easily). But it too seems to have some slop. ?  Meaning I can wiggle the middle gear1 bit (1/16th?) inch or could say 1.5-2mm or so before it contacts the other gears to make them move.
So my question is there another method or documentation of what I might do to take that play out of the RA mesh? 
I have seen the instructions for (old-style - no spring-loaded vers) which doesn't apply to me I don't believe. As noted above, the thumb/finger pressure on the release lever doesn't seem to work this time. Could this mean a new gear is needed in the box?  What else could I try?


Ron in Grand Rapids, MI



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