Date   

Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Roland Christen
 


However, where do I see this information on the driver?
The driver has 3 windows. When it first comes up you see only the first window. You can then expand it to see the other two. Just press the >>> on the upper left and the other windows will appear.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 1:15 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

I will recheck the settings but I never changed anything unless my computer went haywire. 

I will ask them but they are the ones who asked me about the AP ASCOM driver if its window will display the number of transmit and receive errors it gets on the mount connection.  They wanted me to test that  its window will display the number of transmit and receive errors it gets on the mount connection.  When things are working well those should be zero.  So they want me to connect the mount and both cameras, then just get both cameras looping with relatively short exposure times.  Once these communication problems start to occur, I should see those transmit/receive error counts in the mount driver changing.  They said if I can reproduce the problem this way, then I could disconnect one or the other of the cameras and see if the problem remains.  However, where do I see this information on the driver?




  Does that control window show other signs of errors, missing RA/Dec values, that sort of thing?  Those should tell you right away if there are problems

its window will display the number of transmit and receive errors it gets on the mount connection.  When things are working well, of course, those should be zero.  So you could connect the mount and both cameras, then just get both cameras looping with relatively short exposure times.  Once these communication problems start to occur, you should see those transmit/receive error counts in the mount driver changing.  If you can reproduce the problem this way, then you could disconnect one or the other of the cameras and see if the problem remains

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 2:05 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I would ask on the PHD forum.
Are you sure that you have both RA and Dec guiding active in PHD? Check all your settings.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

No- I just started using PHD2 a few months ago and it worked.....until now.  Can you recommend another one to try or should I uninstall and reinstall PHD2?  I was hesitant to do that because I was not sure if the current logs get deleted in case I need to refer to them.

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 1:49 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  
Your planetarium program and the ASCOM driver use the exact same commands to move the mount as any guiding program. The protocol is the same. So there appears to be no communication issue within the CP controller. I assume that your guider program sends move commands via the ASCOM driver. That is the way PHD normally operates. It's possible that your problem might be within your computer itself, no communication between your guide program and the ASCOM driver perhaps. Do you have any other guide program that you could use?

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  


On Dec 7, 2019, at 1:35 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:



Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.
Ok, so let me ask again, can you slew or move the mount via your planetarium program? If you can then the mount controller is working. If you cannot move the mount in RA this way then indeed something is wrong inside the controller. You can also try moving the mount via your ASCOM driver. If it responds to button pushes or move commands from the driver, then the controller is fine and you have problems outside of the mount. Do this test and report back.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.

Bruce

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

<1575687507397blob.jpg>




Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce
<1575687507397blob.jpg>


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Bruce Donzanti
 
Edited

I will recheck the settings but I never changed anything unless my computer went haywire. 
 
I will ask them but they are the ones who asked me about the AP ASCOM driver if its window will display the number of transmit and receive errors it gets on the mount connection.  They wanted me to test that  its window will display the number of transmit and receive errors it gets on the mount connection.  When things are working well those should be zero.  So they want me to connect the mount and both cameras, then just get both cameras looping with relatively short exposure times.  Once these communication problems start to occur, I should see those transmit/receive error counts in the mount driver changing.  They said if I can reproduce the problem this way, then I could disconnect one or the other of the cameras and see if the problem remains.  However, where do I see this information on the driver?
 

 
 
 

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 2:05 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I would ask on the PHD forum.
Are you sure that you have both RA and Dec guiding active in PHD? Check all your settings.
 
Rolando
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

No- I just started using PHD2 a few months ago and it worked.....until now.  Can you recommend another one to try or should I uninstall and reinstall PHD2?  I was hesitant to do that because I was not sure if the current logs get deleted in case I need to refer to them.

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 1:49 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
 
Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  
Your planetarium program and the ASCOM driver use the exact same commands to move the mount as any guiding program. The protocol is the same. So there appears to be no communication issue within the CP controller. I assume that your guider program sends move commands via the ASCOM driver. That is the way PHD normally operates. It's possible that your problem might be within your computer itself, no communication between your guide program and the ASCOM driver perhaps. Do you have any other guide program that you could use?
 
Rolando
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  

 

On Dec 7, 2019, at 1:35 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

 
Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.
Ok, so let me ask again, can you slew or move the mount via your planetarium program? If you can then the mount controller is working. If you cannot move the mount in RA this way then indeed something is wrong inside the controller. You can also try moving the mount via your ASCOM driver. If it responds to button pushes or move commands from the driver, then the controller is fine and you have problems outside of the mount. Do this test and report back.
 
Rolando
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.
 
Bruce

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.
 
Rolando
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
 
Hello
 
I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3
 
But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.
 
I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.
 
How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.
 
Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.
 
So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.
 
The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :
 
AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.
 
MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.
 
For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17
 
 
Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.
 
 
In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.
 
 
Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD
 
(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)
 
<1575687507397blob.jpg>

 
 
Olivier
 
Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :
 
 
I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce
 
 
 
 
<1575687507397blob.jpg>
 
 
 

 

 


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Roland Christen
 

I would ask on the PHD forum.
Are you sure that you have both RA and Dec guiding active in PHD? Check all your settings.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

No- I just started using PHD2 a few months ago and it worked.....until now.  Can you recommend another one to try or should I uninstall and reinstall PHD2?  I was hesitant to do that because I was not sure if the current logs get deleted in case I need to refer to them.

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 1:49 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  
Your planetarium program and the ASCOM driver use the exact same commands to move the mount as any guiding program. The protocol is the same. So there appears to be no communication issue within the CP controller. I assume that your guider program sends move commands via the ASCOM driver. That is the way PHD normally operates. It's possible that your problem might be within your computer itself, no communication between your guide program and the ASCOM driver perhaps. Do you have any other guide program that you could use?

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  


On Dec 7, 2019, at 1:35 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:



Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.
Ok, so let me ask again, can you slew or move the mount via your planetarium program? If you can then the mount controller is working. If you cannot move the mount in RA this way then indeed something is wrong inside the controller. You can also try moving the mount via your ASCOM driver. If it responds to button pushes or move commands from the driver, then the controller is fine and you have problems outside of the mount. Do this test and report back.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.

Bruce

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

<1575687507397blob.jpg>




Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce
<1575687507397blob.jpg>


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Bruce Donzanti
 

No- I just started using PHD2 a few months ago and it worked.....until now.  Can you recommend another one to try or should I uninstall and reinstall PHD2?  I was hesitant to do that because I was not sure if the current logs get deleted in case I need to refer to them.

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 1:49 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  
Your planetarium program and the ASCOM driver use the exact same commands to move the mount as any guiding program. The protocol is the same. So there appears to be no communication issue within the CP controller. I assume that your guider program sends move commands via the ASCOM driver. That is the way PHD normally operates. It's possible that your problem might be within your computer itself, no communication between your guide program and the ASCOM driver perhaps. Do you have any other guide program that you could use?

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  


On Dec 7, 2019, at 1:35 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:



Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.
Ok, so let me ask again, can you slew or move the mount via your planetarium program? If you can then the mount controller is working. If you cannot move the mount in RA this way then indeed something is wrong inside the controller. You can also try moving the mount via your ASCOM driver. If it responds to button pushes or move commands from the driver, then the controller is fine and you have problems outside of the mount. Do this test and report back.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.

Bruce

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

<1575687507397blob.jpg>




Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce
<1575687507397blob.jpg>


Veil Mosaic

Robert Chozick
 

This is my first mosaic. It is really hard to get the backgrounds the same. This was a lot work. This is with my new ZWO CMOS OSC camera.

https://pbase.com/rchozick/image/170099599

Robert Chozick
rchozick@aol.com


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Roland Christen
 


Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  
Your planetarium program and the ASCOM driver use the exact same commands to move the mount as any guiding program. The protocol is the same. So there appears to be no communication issue within the CP controller. I assume that your guider program sends move commands via the ASCOM driver. That is the way PHD normally operates. It's possible that your problem might be within your computer itself, no communication between your guide program and the ASCOM driver perhaps. Do you have any other guide program that you could use?

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 12:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  


On Dec 7, 2019, at 1:35 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011@...> wrote:



Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.
Ok, so let me ask again, can you slew or move the mount via your planetarium program? If you can then the mount controller is working. If you cannot move the mount in RA this way then indeed something is wrong inside the controller. You can also try moving the mount via your ASCOM driver. If it responds to button pushes or move commands from the driver, then the controller is fine and you have problems outside of the mount. Do this test and report back.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.

Bruce

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

<1575687507397blob.jpg>




Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce
<1575687507397blob.jpg>


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Bruce Donzanti
 

Yes to the planetarium program and yes to the AP ASCOM driver.  They move as you would expect.  In fact, I can image up to 60s unguided with no problems.  


On Dec 7, 2019, at 1:35 PM, uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011@...> wrote:



Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.
Ok, so let me ask again, can you slew or move the mount via your planetarium program? If you can then the mount controller is working. If you cannot move the mount in RA this way then indeed something is wrong inside the controller. You can also try moving the mount via your ASCOM driver. If it responds to button pushes or move commands from the driver, then the controller is fine and you have problems outside of the mount. Do this test and report back.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.

Bruce

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

<1575687507397blob.jpg>




Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce
<1575687507397blob.jpg>


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Roland Christen
 

Expand the ASCOM driver window and you will see more functions including the com errors. I doubt that you are getting any. Use the ASCOM driver to move the mount in RA. If you can do this, the mount is ok and the problem is elsewhere.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 11:54 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Also, can you tell me where I would find the communication error display in the AP ASCOM driver window?  I was told that a  window will display the number of transmit and receive errors it gets on the mount connection.

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

Image en ligne



Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Roland Christen
 


Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.
Ok, so let me ask again, can you slew or move the mount via your planetarium program? If you can then the mount controller is working. If you cannot move the mount in RA this way then indeed something is wrong inside the controller. You can also try moving the mount via your ASCOM driver. If it responds to button pushes or move commands from the driver, then the controller is fine and you have problems outside of the mount. Do this test and report back.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Dec 7, 2019 11:50 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.

Bruce

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

Image en ligne



Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Bruce Donzanti
 

Also, can you tell me where I would find the communication error display in the AP ASCOM driver window?  I was told that a  window will display the number of transmit and receive errors it gets on the mount connection.

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

Image en ligne



Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Bruce Donzanti
 

Thanks, Roland.  I did try the autoguider port and it seemed not to change anything.  I'll try again tonight and may switch to the other serial port and see what happens.  This is just very strange.  Working fine for a long time and then just stops communicating.

Bruce

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 12:30 PM uncarollo2 <chris1011@...> via Groups.Io <chris1011=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

Image en ligne



Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Roland Christen
 

If you have a CP4 you have 4 input choices for sending guide data (1 USB, 2 serial and the guider port). It may be that the one you are using has a fault. You can try one of the other inputs. If you have a planetarium program attached to one of the inputs, you can try sending a move command, slew or centering, to verify that the mount is moving. This will tell you whether the mount controller is functioning and that the input you are using for guiding may be faulty.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...>
To: main <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Dec 6, 2019 9:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

Image en ligne



Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce


Re: Power Supply for Imaging at Remote Locations

David
 

I only use two.  One 100Ah LiFePO4 battery to run all my gear.  Mount, cameras, dew heaters, focuser, flat panel, etc.  It all runs fine, with power being distributed to everything through a RigRunner.  I also use a MaxOak 50000 battery to power the laptop for a longer stretch.  Works perfectly. Don’t think you’d need more batteries than that for a long night of imaging.  I figure my draw for my gear is at around 6-7 amps per hour, not including the laptop which is powered separately.

It’s run my gear for 10 hours at 20-30 degrees F no problem.

David





On Dec 7, 2019, at 6:39 AM, mhambrick563@... wrote:

Thanks everyone for all the input on which type of batteries work well. Can we change gears a little bit and now talk about how many different batteries you are using with your remote setups ? Based on recommendations from the various equipment manufacturers, I can easily imagine four or possibly even five different batteries: One for the mount, one for the camera, one for the dew heaters, one for the peripherals, and even one for the laptop. Is anyone just using one battery to power everything ? How does this work ?


Re: Power Supply for Imaging at Remote Locations

Terri Zittritsch
 

I only typically need one for all night, but I've only done this in warmer climates.  I do have a max oak 50,000mah lipo battery in case the laptop needs juice, but it's gotten very little use.


T


Re: Power Supply for Imaging at Remote Locations

M Hambrick
 

Thanks everyone for all the input on which type of batteries work well. Can we change gears a little bit and now talk about how many different batteries you are using with your remote setups ? Based on recommendations from the various equipment manufacturers, I can easily imagine four or possibly even five different batteries: One for the mount, one for the camera, one for the dew heaters, one for the peripherals, and even one for the laptop. Is anyone just using one battery to power everything ? How does this work ?


Re: Keypad battery replacement

Peter Bresler
 

Thanks! I thought the real time clock was a battery. I changed the battery and everything looks good.

Peter


Keypad battery replacement

Peter Bresler
 

I replaced the battery in my keypad. Do I need to restore the database? I started the download from the control box, but it hung. Subsequently I did not notice any changes in the keypad. Is the database still there?

Peter Bresler


Re: Keypad battery replacement

Steven Panish
 

Peter,

I have a similarly old keypad and the 1632 is correct.  3V, so you would not want to double them!

There is no need to reload the database.

Steve

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:50 PM Peter Bresler via Groups.Io <PABresler=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
I purchased a used SN 1462 GTO keypad and got a low battery warning. The manual says this SN takes a CR1632 battery. The battery in the keypad is about twice the thickness. Does it take two CR 1632s, or what is the correct battery number?

Will I need to reinstall the database now? Where is the link for the download?

Peter Bresler


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

Bruce Donzanti
 

So you mean even during calibration, the RA guiding is not responding ?  CORRECT

Does the virtual hand controler, in PHD, works well for both axis ? NO IDEA WHAT THIS IS 

Are you guiding through pulse guide only? not ST4? (not used nor connected?)  PULSE GUIDE; ST4 NOT CONNECTED

Do the hand controler work well ? does the mount respond to RA orders from the hand controler?  NO HAND CONTROLLER

And goto from the PC? does it work well for both RA and DEC?   YES, USE SS PRO  does the virtual hand controler of the AP ASCOM driver works well ?  DID NOT TRY

How is the sideral tracking ? FINE UP TO 60S AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN 



On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:35 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
OK clear.

So you mean even during calibration, the RA guiding is not responding ?

Does the virtual hand controler, in PHD, works well for both axis ?

Are you guiding through pulse guide only? not ST4? (not used nor connected?)

Do the hand controler work well ? does the mount respond to RA orders from the hand controler?

And goto from the PC? does it work well for both RA and DEC? does the virtual hand controler of the AP ASCOM driver works well ?

How is the sideral tracking ? 

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 04:14:10 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

Image en ligne



Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce


Re: PHD2 Guiding issue on AP1100

OlivDeso
 

OK clear.

So you mean even during calibration, the RA guiding is not responding ?

Does the virtual hand controler, in PHD, works well for both axis ?

Are you guiding through pulse guide only? not ST4? (not used nor connected?)

Do the hand controler work well ? does the mount respond to RA orders from the hand controler?

And goto from the PC? does it work well for both RA and DEC? does the virtual hand controler of the AP ASCOM driver works well ?

How is the sideral tracking ? 

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 04:14:10 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


Thanks but my guiding has been fine for months.  I should have stated I am in a permanent pier observatory so I do not keep re-calibrating.  Also, I did try to create a new profile but since RA will not respond, it will not create a new calibration curve.  So, I am stuck. 

On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 10:06 PM OlivDeso via Groups.Io <olivdeso=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello

I never faced any guiding issue with the AP1100 so far since years (I have the serial #10) and GTO CP3

But as far as I understand, it is very unlikely that the issue comes from an defective USB cable nor the RS232 cable if everything works well except the AD guiding.

I would rather suspect a PHD or AP Ascom driver wrong setting.

How is PHD calibration ?  -> calibrate once on the ecuador close to the meridian at the begening of your observing session and then slew to the target.

Of course if you have a fixed setup and don't remove your guiding camera, you only have to calibrate PHD once forever.

So first of all review PHD calibration data. A good calibration is really a keep point to get a good guiding.

The verify the AD agressivity and the AD MnMo :

AD agressivity should be higher or equal 50%. 70% is a good starting value for average conditions.

MnMo in the threshold under which PHD will not correct the guiding error : It should be set to a value corresponding to about half of the main camera pixel size. 
But the unit value is pixels of the guide cam, so you have to do so basic maths to calculate it from the main cam pixel sampling.

For instance if your main cam has a sampling of 1" per pixel and you guide cam a sampling of 3". You would like to set the MnMo to 0,5".
So 0.5" is equal to 1/6 of the guide cam sampling -> so you would set the AD MnMo to 1/6 = 0.17


Concerning the DEC, I use to set the MnMo to the double of AD MnMo and agressivity to about 30% -> this is to avoid guiding in 2 directions in DEC which is the second keypoint to get a good guiding.


In the AP driver, verify the guiding speed and maybe the PEM state. try disabling the PEM if enabled.


Example of what I am curently geting right now form a remote EQ8 in Chile (I am in France) : the EQ8 is not as good as the AP1100 in AD tracking (from far) but the tuning principle remains the same.
Look at the graph : you can see that the DEC stays at one side of the axis and then on the target you can also see that the hits are located only at te uper half and well grouped in DEC at least.
The main limit of this EQ8 is the AD

(the star is a little bit saturated and has a triangle shape, but the guiding is good enough for the moment....until we replace the EQ8 by an AP one day)

Image en ligne



Olivier

Le samedi 7 décembre 2019 à 03:30:52 UTC+1, Bruce Donzanti <donza2735@...> a écrit :


I have been guiding just fine on my AP1100 mount for a few months but the other night RA stopped responding.  I have been chatting with the folks on the PHD forum and they looked at my logs.  They are suspecting a bad USB cable.  I changed the cables on both the guide and image cameras which connect to a powered USB hub on top of my scope which then runs down the pier to my laptop.   I also changed that USB cable as well.  I then cleaned the RS232 cable from the CP4 box which also runs to my laptop.  To see if this was an issue, I removed it and tried the autoguider cable instead.  Anyway, I continue to have the same issue.  So, just asking if you have ever heard of this problem and if I am missing something else to try.

Bruce

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