Date   

Re: Update CP4 troubles

Roland Christen
 

It's never failed me except one time when I used a bad cable.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: cburton52@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Sat, Oct 12, 2019 10:46 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Update CP4 troubles



Sorry, plugging into the pc at one end, the mount on the other end.


Re: Update CP4 troubles

carlburton2001
 

Sorry, plugging into the pc at one end, the mount on the other end.


Re: Update CP4 troubles

Dale Ghent
 

One critical piece of into you've left out is: what is on the other end of that ethernet cable?

You're plugging it into the CP4, and the other end is plugged into what? A network switch or your wireless router, or your PC itself?

/dale

On Oct 12, 2019, at 11:22 AM, cburton52@comcast.net [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I'm trying to update my CP4 from VCP01-10 to current -13. I can connect to mount using the serial port but can not connect using ethernet port. I've tried different cables so I think I can rule out cables. I can connect via wifi and see the ip adress but when I type the address in I can not connect to mount. I am using driver v5.20.09 on a windows 7 machine(same results on a win 10 machine). When I run the E-net_Wifi_poll application I get a dialog saying "Please be sure your GPOCP4 is connected via Ethernet. A local network connection is prefered, but point to point will also work. " The Find Mount java application tells me No mount on any newwork but when I connect to mount via wifi the application tells me the correct serial # Hostname UDP port or TCP port. The CP4 is connected to an GTO-1200 mount.



Any ideas?



Thanks



Carl








Update CP4 troubles

carlburton2001
 

Hi


I'm trying to update my CP4 from VCP01-10 to current -13.  I can connect to mount using the serial port but can not connect using ethernet port.  I've tried different cables so I think I can rule out cables.  I can connect via wifi and see the ip adress but when I type the address in I can not connect to mount.  I am using driver v5.20.09 on a windows 7 machine(same results on a win 10 machine).  When I run the E-net_Wifi_poll application I get a dialog saying "Please be sure your GPOCP4 is connected via Ethernet.  A local network connection is prefered, but point to point will also work. "  The Find Mount java application tells me No mount on any newwork but when I connect to mount via wifi the application tells me the correct serial # Hostname UDP port or TCP port.  The CP4 is connected to an GTO-1200 mount.


Any ideas?


Thanks


Carl




Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Dale Ghent
 

Proper grounding technique is good knowledge for anyone to have. Just ask these guys:

https://i.imgur.com/cKLJ3Tr.jpg

/dale

On Oct 11, 2019, at 5:25 PM, biker123@att.net [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Joe,
Wow....did you cover a lot of sins manufacturers and weekend warriors commit that can compromise their gear or kill it.To cover all this would take a lot of typing ;-)

But you are dead right. The sad part is that electricians often don't get it right and pass on bad information to others. One of my duties was to meet with contractors to discuss electrical safety....low voltage as well as high voltage when working around primary distribution lines (12 KV and higher). I and my partner met several of these guys who argued with us....until we did some demos to show we were right ;-)

For a start I recommend others to get that test block I mentioned above to determine if their house wiring is good and wired correctly. And make sure everything is connected correctly. I am not going to recommend that people take their equipment apart to check chassis ground, etc. as they could likely get into trouble if they don't know what they are doing. But if they ever get a tingle when touching metal cases....that is a sign something isn't right.




Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Roland Christen
 


But I was hoping the later generation controller, CP4 would have finally got it right – but it didn’t.
I don't know what you're talking about. The way all our controllers are built is the correct way. The 12 volt minus is connected to chassis. It must be done this way because it's part of the requirement for FCC and EU. We cannot allow the chassis to float because it must act as a Faraday shield in order to contain the high frequencies present due to the use of computer chips. There is no connection of the chassis to the 110 volts house mains. It is up to the power supply manufacturer to prevent 110 volts from propagating to the 12 volt side of the power supply.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2019 5:41 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING



Hi Biker,
    Glad to see that you concur.
 
    Sometimes I feel I am shouting in the dark. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about improper designs in many if not almost all controllers out there,. But I was hoping the later generation controller, CP4 would have finally got it right – but it didn’t. Hopefully,  the CP5 got the chassis grounding right this time.
 
    Sometimes this problem is so easy to fix just by choosing the correct component to bolt onto the control panel.
For example, there is a choice for something as simple as the DB9 serial port connector. Manufacturers can choose one that has its logic ground pin, isolated and used strictly for power supply ground return. Or,  for some reason, they choose to buy one that already has the logic ground pin welded to the DB connector body. As soon as that kind of serial connector is screwed onto the panel, the logic ground on the circuit board,  now shares “chassis ground” with everything on the system, including the panel screws. How simple would that practice be to correct?
 
     I noticed, while ring out the resistance on other connectors on my CP4, this sharing of logic ground with chassis ground doesn’t seem to be done for USB, Ethernet, and other connectors, so it may only be caused by a poor choice of serial port connectors during design, rather than someone purposely attaching a wire between a chassis screw and the logic board circuit ground during assembly.
 
    However, I can see how some sloppy designers just assume ANY ground is just a plain ground, so to protect the user and satisfy their own lawyers, they divert ALL types of ground points to the chassis body lest a 5 volt signal might kill a customer,  and the above serial connector is an easy way to do that.
 
    Anyway, not much we can do to protect our controllers from this hazard. This kind of bad practice has been out there probably for decades, and most of our equipment is already irreversibly affected.  I’m just shocked – excuse the pun – that this practice still continues.
Just have to be wary to watch out for distant thunder storms.
 
Joe
 
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING
 


Joe,
Wow....did you cover a lot of sins manufacturers and weekend warriors commit that can compromise their gear or kill it.To cover all this would take a lot of typing ;-)
 
But you are dead right. The sad part is that electricians often don't get it right and pass on bad information to others. One of my duties was to meet with contractors to discuss electrical safety....low voltage as well as high voltage when working around primary distribution lines (12 KV and higher). I and my partner met several of these guys who argued with us....until we did some demos to show we were right ;-)
 
For a start I recommend others to get that test block I mentioned above to determine if their house wiring is good and wired correctly. And make sure everything is connected correctly. I am not going to recommend that people take their equipment apart to check chassis ground, etc. as they could likely get into trouble if they don't know what they are doing. But if they ever get a tingle when touching metal cases....that is a sign something isn't right.
 



Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Biker,
    Glad to see that you concur.
 
    Sometimes I feel I am shouting in the dark. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about improper designs in many if not almost all controllers out there,. But I was hoping the later generation controller, CP4 would have finally got it right – but it didn’t. Hopefully,  the CP5 got the chassis grounding right this time.
 
    Sometimes this problem is so easy to fix just by choosing the correct component to bolt onto the control panel.
For example, there is a choice for something as simple as the DB9 serial port connector. Manufacturers can choose one that has its logic ground pin, isolated and used strictly for power supply ground return. Or,  for some reason, they choose to buy one that already has the logic ground pin welded to the DB connector body. As soon as that kind of serial connector is screwed onto the panel, the logic ground on the circuit board,  now shares “chassis ground” with everything on the system, including the panel screws. How simple would that practice be to correct?
 
     I noticed, while ring out the resistance on other connectors on my CP4, this sharing of logic ground with chassis ground doesn’t seem to be done for USB, Ethernet, and other connectors, so it may only be caused by a poor choice of serial port connectors during design, rather than someone purposely attaching a wire between a chassis screw and the logic board circuit ground during assembly.
 
    However, I can see how some sloppy designers just assume ANY ground is just a plain ground, so to protect the user and satisfy their own lawyers, they divert ALL types of ground points to the chassis body lest a 5 volt signal might kill a customer,  and the above serial connector is an easy way to do that.
 
    Anyway, not much we can do to protect our controllers from this hazard. This kind of bad practice has been out there probably for decades, and most of our equipment is already irreversibly affected.  I’m just shocked – excuse the pun – that this practice still continues.
Just have to be wary to watch out for distant thunder storms.
 
Joe
 

From: biker123@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 5:25 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING
 


Joe,
Wow....did you cover a lot of sins manufacturers and weekend warriors commit that can compromise their gear or kill it.To cover all this would take a lot of typing ;-)
 
But you are dead right. The sad part is that electricians often don't get it right and pass on bad information to others. One of my duties was to meet with contractors to discuss electrical safety....low voltage as well as high voltage when working around primary distribution lines (12 KV and higher). I and my partner met several of these guys who argued with us....until we did some demos to show we were right ;-)
 
For a start I recommend others to get that test block I mentioned above to determine if their house wiring is good and wired correctly. And make sure everything is connected correctly. I am not going to recommend that people take their equipment apart to check chassis ground, etc. as they could likely get into trouble if they don't know what they are doing. But if they ever get a tingle when touching metal cases....that is a sign something isn't right.
 


Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Roland Christen
 

Thanks for your info, Bikerdude.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: biker123@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2019 4:25 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING



Joe,
Wow....did you cover a lot of sins manufacturers and weekend warriors commit that can compromise their gear or kill it.To cover all this would take a lot of typing ;-)

But you are dead right. The sad part is that electricians often don't get it right and pass on bad information to others. One of my duties was to meet with contractors to discuss electrical safety....low voltage as well as high voltage when working around primary distribution lines (12 KV and higher). I and my partner met several of these guys who argued with us....until we did some demos to show we were right ;-) 

For a start I recommend others to get that test block I mentioned above to determine if their house wiring is good and wired correctly. And make sure everything is connected correctly. I am not going to recommend that people take their equipment apart to check chassis ground, etc. as they could likely get into trouble if they don't know what they are doing. But if they ever get a tingle when touching metal cases....that is a sign something isn't right. 




Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Robert Berta
 

Joe,
Wow....did you cover a lot of sins manufacturers and weekend warriors commit that can compromise their gear or kill it.To cover all this would take a lot of typing ;-)

But you are dead right. The sad part is that electricians often don't get it right and pass on bad information to others. One of my duties was to meet with contractors to discuss electrical safety....low voltage as well as high voltage when working around primary distribution lines (12 KV and higher). I and my partner met several of these guys who argued with us....until we did some demos to show we were right ;-) 

For a start I recommend others to get that test block I mentioned above to determine if their house wiring is good and wired correctly. And make sure everything is connected correctly. I am not going to recommend that people take their equipment apart to check chassis ground, etc. as they could likely get into trouble if they don't know what they are doing. But if they ever get a tingle when touching metal cases....that is a sign something isn't right. 


Re: Best visual filters?

Eric Baumgartner
 

Hello, Mike:

 

Invest in an FL-D filter. It’s a filter from the days of film photography that adapted the color balance of daylight film (the “D”) to fluorescent lights (the “FL”). It coaxes out subtle details and adds contrast to gas giant planets. I use one screwed into my 2” diagonal when I study the planets. I use a 46 mm (E46) FL-D and a 46-to-48 mm step-up ring. B+W used to make a high-quality one, but it doesn’t seem that they do anymore. B&H Photo lists one made by Tiffen:

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=FL-D%20filter%2046%20mm&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

 

Clear skies,

 

Eric Baumgartner

Redding, CT USA

 

 

 

From: Astro-Physics GTO users group
Reply-To: Astro-Physics GTO users group
Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 4:07 PM
To: Astro-Physics GTO users group
Subject: [ap-gto] Best visual filters?

 




Anyone have any thoughts on 1.25" filters for visual lunar/planetary work?  Who makes good quality stuff and what has people's experiences been?

 

Thanks...

 

Mike J. Shade: mshade@q.com

Mike J. Shade Photography:

mshadephotography.com

 

In War: Resolution

In Defeat: Defiance

In Victory: Magnanimity

In Peace: Goodwill

Sir Winston Churchill

Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their lights.

Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping towards the west.  Can it be half

a year since I watched her April rising in the east?  Low in the southwest

Antares blinks a sad farwell to fall...

Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights

 

International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org

 





Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Joe Zeglinski
 

    Wise words indeed, “Biker”. Thank you for clarifying this so eloquently,  for many of us.
 
    Since we are both retired electrical engineers, and based on your obviously far greater professional experience on “grounding issues” ... I wonder what you think about,  how many Astro Accessories designers,  tie their electronics devices DC Logic Ground Return DIRECTLY  to Chassis Ground, which in turn connects to Earth ground via AC/DC power supplies?
 
    For example:
   When  I purposely isolated my CPx’s “negative” terminal – (by wrapping the power cable cigarette lighter plug’s  side terminals with a slip of paper or tape) -  I have seen sparks fly from the CP3 (and CP4) serial port DB-9 panel connector bodies, or its panel screws, when my serial cable connector even comes close to mating the DB-9 on the panel. As proof,  I have even rung-out the resistance between the DB9’s logic ground pin and that same  connector chassis screws, and they are indeed directly connected – by design !
 
    Obviously, such a test is not a common thing to do, but I first discovered such sparking,  quite by accident,  when the ground wire inside my AP-900 (or AP-1200) DC power cable’s  cigarette lighter plug had a broken ground return wire inside, and I needed to re-solder it. I wondered why the CP3 still ran normally with that missing and broken connection.
 
    In fact, even with a purposely “isolated” DC ground  return connection, the CPx’s (and many similar controllers),  run perfectly well, displaying coordinates, data, etc. because the controller’s  DC power returns to its source supply via the CPx case/chassis, the mount, our body standing on dew damp grass,  as well as any other accessory’s improperly wired  DC ground/chassis returns. I have seen the same results – controllers running perfectly well with a disconnected DC Return,  when isolating DC Return terminals on AP’s CP3 & CP4, as well as on my RCOS RC-14.5 telescope TCC controller, and Kendrick’s Premier Dew Heater controller. The only device I have not seen such an improper DC Return tied to Chassis ground, design fault,  was when I ran the same test on my SBIG STL-11000 camera. They did it right, that camera’s case (chassis) is NOT tied to their board’s Logic Ground.
 
    I’ve warned everyone about such improper grounding danger to telescope equipment, but I guess this isn’t an issue until someone’s very expensive, possibly now irreplaceable,  controller(s) gets fried, and then they wonder WHY. This is how an approaching storm can quite easily blow out any such “astro electronics”,   caused by the  “regional elevated earth ground potentials” entering the devices via a controller’s improperly connected DC Logic Return terminals.
 
    Of course, the commonly quoted and sound advice is to “completely unplug all telescope electronics”, unless the telescope is being used at the time, and even then, any distant lightening storms are still many miles away. Not sure how such advice works with Remotely operated  observatories.
 
Joe
 

From: biker123@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 12:10 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING
 


The OP said he is getting tingling when touching anything on the mount, pier, CP 4 box, etc. that is NOT normal and could be an issue. I am a retired electrical engineer that worked many years for an electric utility in California. 
 
I assume you are running AC to a regulated  DC power supply for everything.
 
First thing I would do....get a phase check device from your hardware store to confirm if your house is wired correctly. This is an inexpensive little block that has the two flat prongs and the round prong like a standard electric plug.  The device will usually have three LEDs on it that will help determine if you have the house circuit wired correctly. You would be amazed at how many houses aren't wired correctly.
 
A little electrical class first. A standard  plug will have two flat blades one of which is wider than the other. The smaller blade is the hot leg, the larger flat blade is the ground. The round lug  is the case ground and should not be grounded and it definitely is NOT a ground as many think. Its purpose is to connect the case of your device to other device cases so they all have the same "electrical potential". This means that if you touch two different devices you won't get zapped. Often people will find the two flat blades are reversed because the contractor wired the outlet wrong.....or someone will use an old style two blade plug that has same size blades on each side.and plug in upside down. Sometimes people have very old house wiring that only has the two same size flat blades and no round lug.....and they want to plug a modern two blade/round lug device in. They get an adapter from the hardware store that is designed for that purpose. There is a pig tail or sheet metal piece that acts as the round lug when it is screwed into the center retaining screw on a wall plate. If the adapter is plugged in backwards or the case ground is not connected you have a problem.
 
If you touch the metal of a a device and get a tingle that is an indicator of this issue. You are standing on the ground and the path of least resistance is through your body. When I was young my families refrigerator outlet was wired backward which meant if one of us leaned against the metal door and someone else leaned against the metal edge around our kitchen sink and you touched each other you got a mild shock. Of course being kids we delighted in zapping our family members and friends ;-) That came to an end when I became an engineer and figured it all out. Kind of ruined my brother and sisters fun though ;-)
 
This may not be the final cause of your mystery bug....but something to check.  I would also take Roland's recommendation to heart. Run everything from a 12 volt battery and see if the problem goes away. You won't get a tingle from 12 volt equipment. But you could get zapped if you are using a 12volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter in the field for some reason. Those are notorious for bad grounds since they don't have one normally and can cause all kinds of gremlins.


---In ap-gto@..., wrote :

Rolando,
 
    Would it help isolate the problem source, if Martin would unplug each of the servo motor cables, one at a time?
 
     A vibration might potentially be caused by a stuck servo motor, a fallen screw/part inside the motor box, or its rubbing internally against its case/mount. Perhaps a wonky servo shaft. Might also explain the electrical tingle he feels from touching the CP4, if the short was caused by a motor power attachment,  mechanical failure, leading to a DC short to the case and mount. Otherwise, if there is still mount vibration when either motor’s power is isolated, then as you suggested, it may likely be a power source leak going to both motors via the CP4, causing the mount to conduct the vibration.
 
    Pure conjecture on my part, but I would eliminate each motor’s power feed, in turn, since a “mechanical vibration” can only emanate from a mechanical source and there are just these two,  on the mount. Besides changing the DC power supply, I suggest completely disconnecting all accessories on the telescope – just power the mount directly, in case a current leak is coming to the CP4 via some other device/accessory.
 
Joe


Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Roland Christen
 


The OP said he is getting tingling when touching anything on the mount, pier, CP 4 box, etc. that is NOT normal and could be an issue.
We have actually seen this before on another customer mount several years ago, a 1200 mount operated from a 2 prong plug 120v to 12 volt power supply. He was getting tingling shocks whenever he touched the pier. I asked him to use a voltmeter between the pier and ground and he was getting high AC voltage readings. Using a 12V battery eliminated the problem. Using a properly grounded 3-way power supply also worked. The leaky power supply was removed and he stopped using it.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: biker123@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Wed, Oct 9, 2019 11:11 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING



The OP said he is getting tingling when touching anything on the mount, pier, CP 4 box, etc. that is NOT normal and could be an issue. I am a retired electrical engineer that worked many years for an electric utility in California. 

I assume you are running AC to a regulated  DC power supply for everything.

First thing I would do....get a phase check device from your hardware store to confirm if your house is wired correctly. This is an inexpensive little block that has the two flat prongs and the round prong like a standard electric plug.  The device will usually have three LEDs on it that will help determine if you have the house circuit wired correctly. You would be amazed at how many houses aren't wired correctly.

A little electrical class first. A standard  plug will have two flat blades one of which is wider than the other. The smaller blade is the hot leg, the larger flat blade is the ground. The round lug  is the case ground and should not be grounded and it definitely is NOT a ground as many think. Its purpose is to connect the case of your device to other device cases so they all have the same "electrical potential". This means that if you touch two different devices you won't get zapped. Often people will find the two flat blades are reversed because the contractor wired the outlet wrong.....or someone will use an old style two blade plug that has same size blades on each side.and plug in upside down. Sometimes people have very old house wiring that only has the two same size flat blades and no round lug.....and they want to plug a modern two blade/round lug device in. They get an adapter from the hardware store that is designed for that purpose. There is a pig tail or sheet metal piece that acts as the round lug when it is screwed into the center retaining screw on a wall plate. If the adapter is plugged in backwards or the case ground is not connected you have a problem.

If you touch the metal of a a device and get a tingle that is an indicator of this issue. You are standing on the ground and the path of least resistance is through your body. When I was young my families refrigerator outlet was wired backward which meant if one of us leaned against the metal door and someone else leaned against the metal edge around our kitchen sink and you touched each other you got a mild shock. Of course being kids we delighted in zapping our family members and friends ;-) That came to an end when I became an engineer and figured it all out. Kind of ruined my brother and sisters fun though ;-) 

This may not be the final cause of your mystery bug....but something to check.  I would also take Roland's recommendation to heart. Run everything from a 12 volt battery and see if the problem goes away. You won't get a tingle from 12 volt equipment. But you could get zapped if you are using a 12volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter in the field for some reason. Those are notorious for bad grounds since they don't have one normally and can cause all kinds of gremlins.


---In ap-gto@..., wrote :

Rolando,
 
    Would it help isolate the problem source, if Martin would unplug each of the servo motor cables, one at a time?
 
     A vibration might potentially be caused by a stuck servo motor, a fallen screw/part inside the motor box, or its rubbing internally against its case/mount. Perhaps a wonky servo shaft. Might also explain the electrical tingle he feels from touching the CP4, if the short was caused by a motor power attachment,  mechanical failure, leading to a DC short to the case and mount. Otherwise, if there is still mount vibration when either motor’s power is isolated, then as you suggested, it may likely be a power source leak going to both motors via the CP4, causing the mount to conduct the vibration.
 
    Pure conjecture on my part, but I would eliminate each motor’s power feed, in turn, since a “mechanical vibration” can only emanate from a mechanical source and there are just these two,  on the mount. Besides changing the DC power supply, I suggest completely disconnecting all accessories on the telescope – just power the mount directly, in case a current leak is coming to the CP4 via some other device/accessory.
 
Joe



Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Robert Berta
 

The OP said he is getting tingling when touching anything on the mount, pier, CP 4 box, etc. that is NOT normal and could be an issue. I am a retired electrical engineer that worked many years for an electric utility in California. 

I assume you are running AC to a regulated  DC power supply for everything.

First thing I would do....get a phase check device from your hardware store to confirm if your house is wired correctly. This is an inexpensive little block that has the two flat prongs and the round prong like a standard electric plug.  The device will usually have three LEDs on it that will help determine if you have the house circuit wired correctly. You would be amazed at how many houses aren't wired correctly.

A little electrical class first. A standard  plug will have two flat blades one of which is wider than the other. The smaller blade is the hot leg, the larger flat blade is the ground. The round lug  is the case ground and should not be grounded and it definitely is NOT a ground as many think. Its purpose is to connect the case of your device to other device cases so they all have the same "electrical potential". This means that if you touch two different devices you won't get zapped. Often people will find the two flat blades are reversed because the contractor wired the outlet wrong.....or someone will use an old style two blade plug that has same size blades on each side.and plug in upside down. Sometimes people have very old house wiring that only has the two same size flat blades and no round lug.....and they want to plug a modern two blade/round lug device in. They get an adapter from the hardware store that is designed for that purpose. There is a pig tail or sheet metal piece that acts as the round lug when it is screwed into the center retaining screw on a wall plate. If the adapter is plugged in backwards or the case ground is not connected you have a problem.

If you touch the metal of a a device and get a tingle that is an indicator of this issue. You are standing on the ground and the path of least resistance is through your body. When I was young my families refrigerator outlet was wired backward which meant if one of us leaned against the metal door and someone else leaned against the metal edge around our kitchen sink and you touched each other you got a mild shock. Of course being kids we delighted in zapping our family members and friends ;-) That came to an end when I became an engineer and figured it all out. Kind of ruined my brother and sisters fun though ;-) 

This may not be the final cause of your mystery bug....but something to check.  I would also take Roland's recommendation to heart. Run everything from a 12 volt battery and see if the problem goes away. You won't get a tingle from 12 volt equipment. But you could get zapped if you are using a 12volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter in the field for some reason. Those are notorious for bad grounds since they don't have one normally and can cause all kinds of gremlins.


---In ap-gto@..., <J.Zeglinski@...> wrote :

Rolando,
 
    Would it help isolate the problem source, if Martin would unplug each of the servo motor cables, one at a time?
 
     A vibration might potentially be caused by a stuck servo motor, a fallen screw/part inside the motor box, or its rubbing internally against its case/mount. Perhaps a wonky servo shaft. Might also explain the electrical tingle he feels from touching the CP4, if the short was caused by a motor power attachment,  mechanical failure, leading to a DC short to the case and mount. Otherwise, if there is still mount vibration when either motor’s power is isolated, then as you suggested, it may likely be a power source leak going to both motors via the CP4, causing the mount to conduct the vibration.
 
    Pure conjecture on my part, but I would eliminate each motor’s power feed, in turn, since a “mechanical vibration” can only emanate from a mechanical source and there are just these two,  on the mount. Besides changing the DC power supply, I suggest completely disconnecting all accessories on the telescope – just power the mount directly, in case a current leak is coming to the CP4 via some other device/accessory.
 
Joe


Best visual filters?

Mike Shade
 

Anyone have any thoughts on 1.25" filters for visual lunar/planetary work?  Who makes good quality stuff and what has people's experiences been?

 

Thanks...

 

Mike J. Shade: mshade@q.com

Mike J. Shade Photography:

mshadephotography.com

 

In War: Resolution

In Defeat: Defiance

In Victory: Magnanimity

In Peace: Goodwill

Sir Winston Churchill

Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their lights.

Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping towards the west.  Can it be half

a year since I watched her April rising in the east?  Low in the southwest

Antares blinks a sad farwell to fall...

Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights

 

International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org

 


Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Eric Dreher
 

As has been mentioned by others, definitely Bracken's book.  The reduction in "pain" is worth every penny, and more.

Eric


Re: APCC occasionally loses contact with scope.

slawomirlipinski@...
 

I also used to have an occasional disconnection between APCC Pro and Mach1 - replacing my old laptop with a new one completely fixed this issue. I suspect the problem was in the ports ageing/oxidising in the old laptop, as well as overall slowness of the laptop.


Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Bill Long
 

Call me. We can fix this. 

206-255-5238


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of Ron Kramer ronkramer1957@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 8:41 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Howard and George Need Technical Support!!
 
 

So I go to run my park script and I get this. I HAVE VERSION 5+ I use
this vbs script all the time.

[image: wtf.JPG]

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:37 PM Ron Kramer wrote:

> 3 hours wasted tonight trying to get past some error. I get this about
> every 3 months, normally I can mess around and get it working. 3.5 hours
> and a RARE CLEAR NIGHT WASTED = (
> What can I go to get past this error? I did all my normal tricks and no
> help.
> Can't solve (I always can solve)
> Can't goto (I always can go to)
> What is RECALL - or RECAL and how the heck do I do it. It tells me I
> can't because it's to far off.
> normally I park 3 - tell it to unpark 3 and it's aligned but I have no
> clue what happened or how to fix it.
> Often I can also tell it to park 3 and align the white marks manually and
> unpark - but that didn't work either.
> FRUSTRATED 3.5 hours wasted as well as a clear night. = (
> I hate APCC - don't tell me I can't RECAL - I know it's off - and I'm
> trying to set it. (why it's off, I have no idea).
>
>
>
> [image: howto restore.JPG]
> [image: recall.JPG]
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:42 PM Howard howard@... [ap-gto] <
> ap-gto@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Gang!
>>
>> How's this for a switch?!?!
>>
>> George and I are getting more and more calls with general questions about
>> imaging. As much as we both love assisting our customers, answering
>> questions about cameras, image calibration and processing, other
>> manufacturers' telescopes, we need to devote our time to subjects that are
>> particularly our area of expertise.
>>
>> So we are asking for help. In years past, I would have referred people to
>> Ron Wodaski's excellent book: The New CCD Astronomy, but it is out of print
>> and is also now a bit dated. (It is still a marvelous book, however!!)
>>
>> Where can we send people - especially beginners - for help?
>> What are your favorite resources for imaging information? What are your
>> favorite websites? Are there good resources in print? What about
>> instructional videos? Where can beginners go to learn about things like
>> dithering, sensor temperature, image scale, and the like?
>> Can we assemble a list of resources for our Astro-Physics family?
>>
>> Speaking of information resources:
>> TO ALL of our imaging customers, we also STRONGLY recommend that you
>> check out the Advanced Imaging Conference (AIC)! AIC will be held this year
>> from Nov. 15 - 17 in San Jose, CA.
>> https://www.advancedimagingconference.com/?
>> This is an incredible resource for anyone interested in
>> astro-photography. Not only will this year's workshops be outstanding as
>> always, but attendance also gives attendees access to the conference
>> library of previous sessions. The library contains many years of
>> accumulated knowledge and wisdom, and is probably worth the price of
>> admission even if you didn't attend.
>>
>> May your skies be clear, dark and steady!
>>
>> Howard Hedlund
>> Technical Support and Communication
>> Astro-Physics, Inc.
>> 11250 Forest Hills Road
>> Machesney Park, IL 61115
>> Phone: 815-282-1513
>> Fax: 815-282-9847
>> www.astro-physics.com
>> howard@...
>> Please include this e-mail with your response.
>>
>> [aplogo]
>>
>> P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ron Kramer
> https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer
>

--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Ron Kramer
 

So I go to run my park script and I get this. I HAVE VERSION 5+ I use
this vbs script all the time.


[image: wtf.JPG]

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:37 PM Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@gmail.com> wrote:

3 hours wasted tonight trying to get past some error. I get this about
every 3 months, normally I can mess around and get it working. 3.5 hours
and a RARE CLEAR NIGHT WASTED = (
What can I go to get past this error? I did all my normal tricks and no
help.
Can't solve (I always can solve)
Can't goto (I always can go to)
What is RECALL - or RECAL and how the heck do I do it. It tells me I
can't because it's to far off.
normally I park 3 - tell it to unpark 3 and it's aligned but I have no
clue what happened or how to fix it.
Often I can also tell it to park 3 and align the white marks manually and
unpark - but that didn't work either.
FRUSTRATED 3.5 hours wasted as well as a clear night. = (
I hate APCC - don't tell me I can't RECAL - I know it's off - and I'm
trying to set it. (why it's off, I have no idea).



[image: howto restore.JPG]
[image: recall.JPG]


On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:42 PM Howard howard@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi Gang!

How's this for a switch?!?!

George and I are getting more and more calls with general questions about
imaging. As much as we both love assisting our customers, answering
questions about cameras, image calibration and processing, other
manufacturers' telescopes, we need to devote our time to subjects that are
particularly our area of expertise.

So we are asking for help. In years past, I would have referred people to
Ron Wodaski's excellent book: The New CCD Astronomy, but it is out of print
and is also now a bit dated. (It is still a marvelous book, however!!)

Where can we send people - especially beginners - for help?
What are your favorite resources for imaging information? What are your
favorite websites? Are there good resources in print? What about
instructional videos? Where can beginners go to learn about things like
dithering, sensor temperature, image scale, and the like?
Can we assemble a list of resources for our Astro-Physics family?

Speaking of information resources:
TO ALL of our imaging customers, we also STRONGLY recommend that you
check out the Advanced Imaging Conference (AIC)! AIC will be held this year
from Nov. 15 - 17 in San Jose, CA.
https://www.advancedimagingconference.com/?
This is an incredible resource for anyone interested in
astro-photography. Not only will this year's workshops be outstanding as
always, but attendance also gives attendees access to the conference
library of previous sessions. The library contains many years of
accumulated knowledge and wisdom, and is probably worth the price of
admission even if you didn't attend.

May your skies be clear, dark and steady!

Howard Hedlund
Technical Support and Communication
Astro-Physics, Inc.
11250 Forest Hills Road
Machesney Park, IL 61115
Phone: 815-282-1513
Fax: 815-282-9847
www.astro-physics.com<http://www.astro-physics.com/>
howard@astro-physics.com<mailto:howard@astro-physics.com>
Please include this e-mail with your response.

[aplogo]

P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer

--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer


Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Bill Long
 

Ron call me.

206-255-5238 

I am sure we can get this working in no time.


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of Ron Kramer ronkramer1957@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 8:37 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Howard and George Need Technical Support!!
 
 

3 hours wasted tonight trying to get past some error. I get this about
every 3 months, normally I can mess around and get it working. 3.5 hours
and a RARE CLEAR NIGHT WASTED = (
What can I go to get past this error? I did all my normal tricks and no
help.
Can't solve (I always can solve)
Can't goto (I always can go to)
What is RECALL - or RECAL and how the heck do I do it. It tells me I can't
because it's to far off.
normally I park 3 - tell it to unpark 3 and it's aligned but I have no clue
what happened or how to fix it.
Often I can also tell it to park 3 and align the white marks manually and
unpark - but that didn't work either.
FRUSTRATED 3.5 hours wasted as well as a clear night. = (
I hate APCC - don't tell me I can't RECAL - I know it's off - and I'm
trying to set it. (why it's off, I have no idea).

[image: howto restore.JPG]
[image: recall.JPG]

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:42 PM Howard howard@... [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Gang!
>
> How's this for a switch?!?!
>
> George and I are getting more and more calls with general questions about
> imaging. As much as we both love assisting our customers, answering
> questions about cameras, image calibration and processing, other
> manufacturers' telescopes, we need to devote our time to subjects that are
> particularly our area of expertise.
>
> So we are asking for help. In years past, I would have referred people to
> Ron Wodaski's excellent book: The New CCD Astronomy, but it is out of print
> and is also now a bit dated. (It is still a marvelous book, however!!)
>
> Where can we send people - especially beginners - for help?
> What are your favorite resources for imaging information? What are your
> favorite websites? Are there good resources in print? What about
> instructional videos? Where can beginners go to learn about things like
> dithering, sensor temperature, image scale, and the like?
> Can we assemble a list of resources for our Astro-Physics family?
>
> Speaking of information resources:
> TO ALL of our imaging customers, we also STRONGLY recommend that you check
> out the Advanced Imaging Conference (AIC)! AIC will be held this year from
> Nov. 15 - 17 in San Jose, CA.
> https://www.advancedimagingconference.com/?
> This is an incredible resource for anyone interested in astro-photography.
> Not only will this year's workshops be outstanding as always, but
> attendance also gives attendees access to the conference library of
> previous sessions. The library contains many years of accumulated knowledge
> and wisdom, and is probably worth the price of admission even if you didn't
> attend.
>
> May your skies be clear, dark and steady!
>
> Howard Hedlund
> Technical Support and Communication
> Astro-Physics, Inc.
> 11250 Forest Hills Road
> Machesney Park, IL 61115
> Phone: 815-282-1513
> Fax: 815-282-9847
> www.astro-physics.com
> howard@...
> Please include this e-mail with your response.
>
> [aplogo]
>
> P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer




Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Ron Kramer
 

3 hours wasted tonight trying to get past some error. I get this about
every 3 months, normally I can mess around and get it working. 3.5 hours
and a RARE CLEAR NIGHT WASTED = (
What can I go to get past this error? I did all my normal tricks and no
help.
Can't solve (I always can solve)
Can't goto (I always can go to)
What is RECALL - or RECAL and how the heck do I do it. It tells me I can't
because it's to far off.
normally I park 3 - tell it to unpark 3 and it's aligned but I have no clue
what happened or how to fix it.
Often I can also tell it to park 3 and align the white marks manually and
unpark - but that didn't work either.
FRUSTRATED 3.5 hours wasted as well as a clear night. = (
I hate APCC - don't tell me I can't RECAL - I know it's off - and I'm
trying to set it. (why it's off, I have no idea).



[image: howto restore.JPG]
[image: recall.JPG]


On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:42 PM Howard howard@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi Gang!

How's this for a switch?!?!

George and I are getting more and more calls with general questions about
imaging. As much as we both love assisting our customers, answering
questions about cameras, image calibration and processing, other
manufacturers' telescopes, we need to devote our time to subjects that are
particularly our area of expertise.

So we are asking for help. In years past, I would have referred people to
Ron Wodaski's excellent book: The New CCD Astronomy, but it is out of print
and is also now a bit dated. (It is still a marvelous book, however!!)

Where can we send people - especially beginners - for help?
What are your favorite resources for imaging information? What are your
favorite websites? Are there good resources in print? What about
instructional videos? Where can beginners go to learn about things like
dithering, sensor temperature, image scale, and the like?
Can we assemble a list of resources for our Astro-Physics family?

Speaking of information resources:
TO ALL of our imaging customers, we also STRONGLY recommend that you check
out the Advanced Imaging Conference (AIC)! AIC will be held this year from
Nov. 15 - 17 in San Jose, CA.
https://www.advancedimagingconference.com/?
This is an incredible resource for anyone interested in astro-photography.
Not only will this year's workshops be outstanding as always, but
attendance also gives attendees access to the conference library of
previous sessions. The library contains many years of accumulated knowledge
and wisdom, and is probably worth the price of admission even if you didn't
attend.

May your skies be clear, dark and steady!

Howard Hedlund
Technical Support and Communication
Astro-Physics, Inc.
11250 Forest Hills Road
Machesney Park, IL 61115
Phone: 815-282-1513
Fax: 815-282-9847
www.astro-physics.com<http://www.astro-physics.com/>
howard@astro-physics.com<mailto:howard@astro-physics.com>
Please include this e-mail with your response.

[aplogo]

P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer

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