Date   

Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Biker,
    Glad to see that you concur.
 
    Sometimes I feel I am shouting in the dark. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about improper designs in many if not almost all controllers out there,. But I was hoping the later generation controller, CP4 would have finally got it right – but it didn’t. Hopefully,  the CP5 got the chassis grounding right this time.
 
    Sometimes this problem is so easy to fix just by choosing the correct component to bolt onto the control panel.
For example, there is a choice for something as simple as the DB9 serial port connector. Manufacturers can choose one that has its logic ground pin, isolated and used strictly for power supply ground return. Or,  for some reason, they choose to buy one that already has the logic ground pin welded to the DB connector body. As soon as that kind of serial connector is screwed onto the panel, the logic ground on the circuit board,  now shares “chassis ground” with everything on the system, including the panel screws. How simple would that practice be to correct?
 
     I noticed, while ring out the resistance on other connectors on my CP4, this sharing of logic ground with chassis ground doesn’t seem to be done for USB, Ethernet, and other connectors, so it may only be caused by a poor choice of serial port connectors during design, rather than someone purposely attaching a wire between a chassis screw and the logic board circuit ground during assembly.
 
    However, I can see how some sloppy designers just assume ANY ground is just a plain ground, so to protect the user and satisfy their own lawyers, they divert ALL types of ground points to the chassis body lest a 5 volt signal might kill a customer,  and the above serial connector is an easy way to do that.
 
    Anyway, not much we can do to protect our controllers from this hazard. This kind of bad practice has been out there probably for decades, and most of our equipment is already irreversibly affected.  I’m just shocked – excuse the pun – that this practice still continues.
Just have to be wary to watch out for distant thunder storms.
 
Joe
 

From: biker123@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 5:25 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING
 


Joe,
Wow....did you cover a lot of sins manufacturers and weekend warriors commit that can compromise their gear or kill it.To cover all this would take a lot of typing ;-)
 
But you are dead right. The sad part is that electricians often don't get it right and pass on bad information to others. One of my duties was to meet with contractors to discuss electrical safety....low voltage as well as high voltage when working around primary distribution lines (12 KV and higher). I and my partner met several of these guys who argued with us....until we did some demos to show we were right ;-)
 
For a start I recommend others to get that test block I mentioned above to determine if their house wiring is good and wired correctly. And make sure everything is connected correctly. I am not going to recommend that people take their equipment apart to check chassis ground, etc. as they could likely get into trouble if they don't know what they are doing. But if they ever get a tingle when touching metal cases....that is a sign something isn't right.
 


Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Roland Christen
 

Thanks for your info, Bikerdude.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: biker123@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Oct 11, 2019 4:25 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING



Joe,
Wow....did you cover a lot of sins manufacturers and weekend warriors commit that can compromise their gear or kill it.To cover all this would take a lot of typing ;-)

But you are dead right. The sad part is that electricians often don't get it right and pass on bad information to others. One of my duties was to meet with contractors to discuss electrical safety....low voltage as well as high voltage when working around primary distribution lines (12 KV and higher). I and my partner met several of these guys who argued with us....until we did some demos to show we were right ;-) 

For a start I recommend others to get that test block I mentioned above to determine if their house wiring is good and wired correctly. And make sure everything is connected correctly. I am not going to recommend that people take their equipment apart to check chassis ground, etc. as they could likely get into trouble if they don't know what they are doing. But if they ever get a tingle when touching metal cases....that is a sign something isn't right. 




Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Robert Berta
 

Joe,
Wow....did you cover a lot of sins manufacturers and weekend warriors commit that can compromise their gear or kill it.To cover all this would take a lot of typing ;-)

But you are dead right. The sad part is that electricians often don't get it right and pass on bad information to others. One of my duties was to meet with contractors to discuss electrical safety....low voltage as well as high voltage when working around primary distribution lines (12 KV and higher). I and my partner met several of these guys who argued with us....until we did some demos to show we were right ;-) 

For a start I recommend others to get that test block I mentioned above to determine if their house wiring is good and wired correctly. And make sure everything is connected correctly. I am not going to recommend that people take their equipment apart to check chassis ground, etc. as they could likely get into trouble if they don't know what they are doing. But if they ever get a tingle when touching metal cases....that is a sign something isn't right. 


Re: Best visual filters?

Eric Baumgartner
 

Hello, Mike:

 

Invest in an FL-D filter. It’s a filter from the days of film photography that adapted the color balance of daylight film (the “D”) to fluorescent lights (the “FL”). It coaxes out subtle details and adds contrast to gas giant planets. I use one screwed into my 2” diagonal when I study the planets. I use a 46 mm (E46) FL-D and a 46-to-48 mm step-up ring. B+W used to make a high-quality one, but it doesn’t seem that they do anymore. B&H Photo lists one made by Tiffen:

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=FL-D%20filter%2046%20mm&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

 

Clear skies,

 

Eric Baumgartner

Redding, CT USA

 

 

 

From: Astro-Physics GTO users group
Reply-To: Astro-Physics GTO users group
Date: Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 4:07 PM
To: Astro-Physics GTO users group
Subject: [ap-gto] Best visual filters?

 




Anyone have any thoughts on 1.25" filters for visual lunar/planetary work?  Who makes good quality stuff and what has people's experiences been?

 

Thanks...

 

Mike J. Shade: mshade@q.com

Mike J. Shade Photography:

mshadephotography.com

 

In War: Resolution

In Defeat: Defiance

In Victory: Magnanimity

In Peace: Goodwill

Sir Winston Churchill

Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their lights.

Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping towards the west.  Can it be half

a year since I watched her April rising in the east?  Low in the southwest

Antares blinks a sad farwell to fall...

Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights

 

International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org

 





Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Joe Zeglinski
 

    Wise words indeed, “Biker”. Thank you for clarifying this so eloquently,  for many of us.
 
    Since we are both retired electrical engineers, and based on your obviously far greater professional experience on “grounding issues” ... I wonder what you think about,  how many Astro Accessories designers,  tie their electronics devices DC Logic Ground Return DIRECTLY  to Chassis Ground, which in turn connects to Earth ground via AC/DC power supplies?
 
    For example:
   When  I purposely isolated my CPx’s “negative” terminal – (by wrapping the power cable cigarette lighter plug’s  side terminals with a slip of paper or tape) -  I have seen sparks fly from the CP3 (and CP4) serial port DB-9 panel connector bodies, or its panel screws, when my serial cable connector even comes close to mating the DB-9 on the panel. As proof,  I have even rung-out the resistance between the DB9’s logic ground pin and that same  connector chassis screws, and they are indeed directly connected – by design !
 
    Obviously, such a test is not a common thing to do, but I first discovered such sparking,  quite by accident,  when the ground wire inside my AP-900 (or AP-1200) DC power cable’s  cigarette lighter plug had a broken ground return wire inside, and I needed to re-solder it. I wondered why the CP3 still ran normally with that missing and broken connection.
 
    In fact, even with a purposely “isolated” DC ground  return connection, the CPx’s (and many similar controllers),  run perfectly well, displaying coordinates, data, etc. because the controller’s  DC power returns to its source supply via the CPx case/chassis, the mount, our body standing on dew damp grass,  as well as any other accessory’s improperly wired  DC ground/chassis returns. I have seen the same results – controllers running perfectly well with a disconnected DC Return,  when isolating DC Return terminals on AP’s CP3 & CP4, as well as on my RCOS RC-14.5 telescope TCC controller, and Kendrick’s Premier Dew Heater controller. The only device I have not seen such an improper DC Return tied to Chassis ground, design fault,  was when I ran the same test on my SBIG STL-11000 camera. They did it right, that camera’s case (chassis) is NOT tied to their board’s Logic Ground.
 
    I’ve warned everyone about such improper grounding danger to telescope equipment, but I guess this isn’t an issue until someone’s very expensive, possibly now irreplaceable,  controller(s) gets fried, and then they wonder WHY. This is how an approaching storm can quite easily blow out any such “astro electronics”,   caused by the  “regional elevated earth ground potentials” entering the devices via a controller’s improperly connected DC Logic Return terminals.
 
    Of course, the commonly quoted and sound advice is to “completely unplug all telescope electronics”, unless the telescope is being used at the time, and even then, any distant lightening storms are still many miles away. Not sure how such advice works with Remotely operated  observatories.
 
Joe
 

From: biker123@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2019 12:10 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING
 


The OP said he is getting tingling when touching anything on the mount, pier, CP 4 box, etc. that is NOT normal and could be an issue. I am a retired electrical engineer that worked many years for an electric utility in California. 
 
I assume you are running AC to a regulated  DC power supply for everything.
 
First thing I would do....get a phase check device from your hardware store to confirm if your house is wired correctly. This is an inexpensive little block that has the two flat prongs and the round prong like a standard electric plug.  The device will usually have three LEDs on it that will help determine if you have the house circuit wired correctly. You would be amazed at how many houses aren't wired correctly.
 
A little electrical class first. A standard  plug will have two flat blades one of which is wider than the other. The smaller blade is the hot leg, the larger flat blade is the ground. The round lug  is the case ground and should not be grounded and it definitely is NOT a ground as many think. Its purpose is to connect the case of your device to other device cases so they all have the same "electrical potential". This means that if you touch two different devices you won't get zapped. Often people will find the two flat blades are reversed because the contractor wired the outlet wrong.....or someone will use an old style two blade plug that has same size blades on each side.and plug in upside down. Sometimes people have very old house wiring that only has the two same size flat blades and no round lug.....and they want to plug a modern two blade/round lug device in. They get an adapter from the hardware store that is designed for that purpose. There is a pig tail or sheet metal piece that acts as the round lug when it is screwed into the center retaining screw on a wall plate. If the adapter is plugged in backwards or the case ground is not connected you have a problem.
 
If you touch the metal of a a device and get a tingle that is an indicator of this issue. You are standing on the ground and the path of least resistance is through your body. When I was young my families refrigerator outlet was wired backward which meant if one of us leaned against the metal door and someone else leaned against the metal edge around our kitchen sink and you touched each other you got a mild shock. Of course being kids we delighted in zapping our family members and friends ;-) That came to an end when I became an engineer and figured it all out. Kind of ruined my brother and sisters fun though ;-)
 
This may not be the final cause of your mystery bug....but something to check.  I would also take Roland's recommendation to heart. Run everything from a 12 volt battery and see if the problem goes away. You won't get a tingle from 12 volt equipment. But you could get zapped if you are using a 12volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter in the field for some reason. Those are notorious for bad grounds since they don't have one normally and can cause all kinds of gremlins.


---In ap-gto@..., wrote :

Rolando,
 
    Would it help isolate the problem source, if Martin would unplug each of the servo motor cables, one at a time?
 
     A vibration might potentially be caused by a stuck servo motor, a fallen screw/part inside the motor box, or its rubbing internally against its case/mount. Perhaps a wonky servo shaft. Might also explain the electrical tingle he feels from touching the CP4, if the short was caused by a motor power attachment,  mechanical failure, leading to a DC short to the case and mount. Otherwise, if there is still mount vibration when either motor’s power is isolated, then as you suggested, it may likely be a power source leak going to both motors via the CP4, causing the mount to conduct the vibration.
 
    Pure conjecture on my part, but I would eliminate each motor’s power feed, in turn, since a “mechanical vibration” can only emanate from a mechanical source and there are just these two,  on the mount. Besides changing the DC power supply, I suggest completely disconnecting all accessories on the telescope – just power the mount directly, in case a current leak is coming to the CP4 via some other device/accessory.
 
Joe


Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Roland Christen
 


The OP said he is getting tingling when touching anything on the mount, pier, CP 4 box, etc. that is NOT normal and could be an issue.
We have actually seen this before on another customer mount several years ago, a 1200 mount operated from a 2 prong plug 120v to 12 volt power supply. He was getting tingling shocks whenever he touched the pier. I asked him to use a voltmeter between the pier and ground and he was getting high AC voltage readings. Using a 12V battery eliminated the problem. Using a properly grounded 3-way power supply also worked. The leaky power supply was removed and he stopped using it.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: biker123@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Wed, Oct 9, 2019 11:11 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING



The OP said he is getting tingling when touching anything on the mount, pier, CP 4 box, etc. that is NOT normal and could be an issue. I am a retired electrical engineer that worked many years for an electric utility in California. 

I assume you are running AC to a regulated  DC power supply for everything.

First thing I would do....get a phase check device from your hardware store to confirm if your house is wired correctly. This is an inexpensive little block that has the two flat prongs and the round prong like a standard electric plug.  The device will usually have three LEDs on it that will help determine if you have the house circuit wired correctly. You would be amazed at how many houses aren't wired correctly.

A little electrical class first. A standard  plug will have two flat blades one of which is wider than the other. The smaller blade is the hot leg, the larger flat blade is the ground. The round lug  is the case ground and should not be grounded and it definitely is NOT a ground as many think. Its purpose is to connect the case of your device to other device cases so they all have the same "electrical potential". This means that if you touch two different devices you won't get zapped. Often people will find the two flat blades are reversed because the contractor wired the outlet wrong.....or someone will use an old style two blade plug that has same size blades on each side.and plug in upside down. Sometimes people have very old house wiring that only has the two same size flat blades and no round lug.....and they want to plug a modern two blade/round lug device in. They get an adapter from the hardware store that is designed for that purpose. There is a pig tail or sheet metal piece that acts as the round lug when it is screwed into the center retaining screw on a wall plate. If the adapter is plugged in backwards or the case ground is not connected you have a problem.

If you touch the metal of a a device and get a tingle that is an indicator of this issue. You are standing on the ground and the path of least resistance is through your body. When I was young my families refrigerator outlet was wired backward which meant if one of us leaned against the metal door and someone else leaned against the metal edge around our kitchen sink and you touched each other you got a mild shock. Of course being kids we delighted in zapping our family members and friends ;-) That came to an end when I became an engineer and figured it all out. Kind of ruined my brother and sisters fun though ;-) 

This may not be the final cause of your mystery bug....but something to check.  I would also take Roland's recommendation to heart. Run everything from a 12 volt battery and see if the problem goes away. You won't get a tingle from 12 volt equipment. But you could get zapped if you are using a 12volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter in the field for some reason. Those are notorious for bad grounds since they don't have one normally and can cause all kinds of gremlins.


---In ap-gto@..., wrote :

Rolando,
 
    Would it help isolate the problem source, if Martin would unplug each of the servo motor cables, one at a time?
 
     A vibration might potentially be caused by a stuck servo motor, a fallen screw/part inside the motor box, or its rubbing internally against its case/mount. Perhaps a wonky servo shaft. Might also explain the electrical tingle he feels from touching the CP4, if the short was caused by a motor power attachment,  mechanical failure, leading to a DC short to the case and mount. Otherwise, if there is still mount vibration when either motor’s power is isolated, then as you suggested, it may likely be a power source leak going to both motors via the CP4, causing the mount to conduct the vibration.
 
    Pure conjecture on my part, but I would eliminate each motor’s power feed, in turn, since a “mechanical vibration” can only emanate from a mechanical source and there are just these two,  on the mount. Besides changing the DC power supply, I suggest completely disconnecting all accessories on the telescope – just power the mount directly, in case a current leak is coming to the CP4 via some other device/accessory.
 
Joe



Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Robert Berta
 

The OP said he is getting tingling when touching anything on the mount, pier, CP 4 box, etc. that is NOT normal and could be an issue. I am a retired electrical engineer that worked many years for an electric utility in California. 

I assume you are running AC to a regulated  DC power supply for everything.

First thing I would do....get a phase check device from your hardware store to confirm if your house is wired correctly. This is an inexpensive little block that has the two flat prongs and the round prong like a standard electric plug.  The device will usually have three LEDs on it that will help determine if you have the house circuit wired correctly. You would be amazed at how many houses aren't wired correctly.

A little electrical class first. A standard  plug will have two flat blades one of which is wider than the other. The smaller blade is the hot leg, the larger flat blade is the ground. The round lug  is the case ground and should not be grounded and it definitely is NOT a ground as many think. Its purpose is to connect the case of your device to other device cases so they all have the same "electrical potential". This means that if you touch two different devices you won't get zapped. Often people will find the two flat blades are reversed because the contractor wired the outlet wrong.....or someone will use an old style two blade plug that has same size blades on each side.and plug in upside down. Sometimes people have very old house wiring that only has the two same size flat blades and no round lug.....and they want to plug a modern two blade/round lug device in. They get an adapter from the hardware store that is designed for that purpose. There is a pig tail or sheet metal piece that acts as the round lug when it is screwed into the center retaining screw on a wall plate. If the adapter is plugged in backwards or the case ground is not connected you have a problem.

If you touch the metal of a a device and get a tingle that is an indicator of this issue. You are standing on the ground and the path of least resistance is through your body. When I was young my families refrigerator outlet was wired backward which meant if one of us leaned against the metal door and someone else leaned against the metal edge around our kitchen sink and you touched each other you got a mild shock. Of course being kids we delighted in zapping our family members and friends ;-) That came to an end when I became an engineer and figured it all out. Kind of ruined my brother and sisters fun though ;-) 

This may not be the final cause of your mystery bug....but something to check.  I would also take Roland's recommendation to heart. Run everything from a 12 volt battery and see if the problem goes away. You won't get a tingle from 12 volt equipment. But you could get zapped if you are using a 12volt DC to 120 volt AC inverter in the field for some reason. Those are notorious for bad grounds since they don't have one normally and can cause all kinds of gremlins.


---In ap-gto@..., <J.Zeglinski@...> wrote :

Rolando,
 
    Would it help isolate the problem source, if Martin would unplug each of the servo motor cables, one at a time?
 
     A vibration might potentially be caused by a stuck servo motor, a fallen screw/part inside the motor box, or its rubbing internally against its case/mount. Perhaps a wonky servo shaft. Might also explain the electrical tingle he feels from touching the CP4, if the short was caused by a motor power attachment,  mechanical failure, leading to a DC short to the case and mount. Otherwise, if there is still mount vibration when either motor’s power is isolated, then as you suggested, it may likely be a power source leak going to both motors via the CP4, causing the mount to conduct the vibration.
 
    Pure conjecture on my part, but I would eliminate each motor’s power feed, in turn, since a “mechanical vibration” can only emanate from a mechanical source and there are just these two,  on the mount. Besides changing the DC power supply, I suggest completely disconnecting all accessories on the telescope – just power the mount directly, in case a current leak is coming to the CP4 via some other device/accessory.
 
Joe


Best visual filters?

Mike Shade
 

Anyone have any thoughts on 1.25" filters for visual lunar/planetary work?  Who makes good quality stuff and what has people's experiences been?

 

Thanks...

 

Mike J. Shade: mshade@q.com

Mike J. Shade Photography:

mshadephotography.com

 

In War: Resolution

In Defeat: Defiance

In Victory: Magnanimity

In Peace: Goodwill

Sir Winston Churchill

Already, in the gathering dusk, a few of the stars are turning on their lights.

Vega, the brightest one, is now dropping towards the west.  Can it be half

a year since I watched her April rising in the east?  Low in the southwest

Antares blinks a sad farwell to fall...

Leslie Peltier, Starlight Nights

 

International Dark Sky Association: www.darksky.org

 


Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Eric Dreher
 

As has been mentioned by others, definitely Bracken's book.  The reduction in "pain" is worth every penny, and more.

Eric


Re: APCC occasionally loses contact with scope.

slawomirlipinski@...
 

I also used to have an occasional disconnection between APCC Pro and Mach1 - replacing my old laptop with a new one completely fixed this issue. I suspect the problem was in the ports ageing/oxidising in the old laptop, as well as overall slowness of the laptop.


Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Bill Long
 

Call me. We can fix this. 

206-255-5238


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of Ron Kramer ronkramer1957@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 8:41 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Howard and George Need Technical Support!!
 
 

So I go to run my park script and I get this. I HAVE VERSION 5+ I use
this vbs script all the time.

[image: wtf.JPG]

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:37 PM Ron Kramer wrote:

> 3 hours wasted tonight trying to get past some error. I get this about
> every 3 months, normally I can mess around and get it working. 3.5 hours
> and a RARE CLEAR NIGHT WASTED = (
> What can I go to get past this error? I did all my normal tricks and no
> help.
> Can't solve (I always can solve)
> Can't goto (I always can go to)
> What is RECALL - or RECAL and how the heck do I do it. It tells me I
> can't because it's to far off.
> normally I park 3 - tell it to unpark 3 and it's aligned but I have no
> clue what happened or how to fix it.
> Often I can also tell it to park 3 and align the white marks manually and
> unpark - but that didn't work either.
> FRUSTRATED 3.5 hours wasted as well as a clear night. = (
> I hate APCC - don't tell me I can't RECAL - I know it's off - and I'm
> trying to set it. (why it's off, I have no idea).
>
>
>
> [image: howto restore.JPG]
> [image: recall.JPG]
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:42 PM Howard howard@... [ap-gto] <
> ap-gto@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Gang!
>>
>> How's this for a switch?!?!
>>
>> George and I are getting more and more calls with general questions about
>> imaging. As much as we both love assisting our customers, answering
>> questions about cameras, image calibration and processing, other
>> manufacturers' telescopes, we need to devote our time to subjects that are
>> particularly our area of expertise.
>>
>> So we are asking for help. In years past, I would have referred people to
>> Ron Wodaski's excellent book: The New CCD Astronomy, but it is out of print
>> and is also now a bit dated. (It is still a marvelous book, however!!)
>>
>> Where can we send people - especially beginners - for help?
>> What are your favorite resources for imaging information? What are your
>> favorite websites? Are there good resources in print? What about
>> instructional videos? Where can beginners go to learn about things like
>> dithering, sensor temperature, image scale, and the like?
>> Can we assemble a list of resources for our Astro-Physics family?
>>
>> Speaking of information resources:
>> TO ALL of our imaging customers, we also STRONGLY recommend that you
>> check out the Advanced Imaging Conference (AIC)! AIC will be held this year
>> from Nov. 15 - 17 in San Jose, CA.
>> https://www.advancedimagingconference.com/?
>> This is an incredible resource for anyone interested in
>> astro-photography. Not only will this year's workshops be outstanding as
>> always, but attendance also gives attendees access to the conference
>> library of previous sessions. The library contains many years of
>> accumulated knowledge and wisdom, and is probably worth the price of
>> admission even if you didn't attend.
>>
>> May your skies be clear, dark and steady!
>>
>> Howard Hedlund
>> Technical Support and Communication
>> Astro-Physics, Inc.
>> 11250 Forest Hills Road
>> Machesney Park, IL 61115
>> Phone: 815-282-1513
>> Fax: 815-282-9847
>> www.astro-physics.com
>> howard@...
>> Please include this e-mail with your response.
>>
>> [aplogo]
>>
>> P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ron Kramer
> https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer
>

--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Ron Kramer
 

So I go to run my park script and I get this. I HAVE VERSION 5+ I use
this vbs script all the time.


[image: wtf.JPG]

On Tue, Oct 8, 2019 at 11:37 PM Ron Kramer <ronkramer1957@gmail.com> wrote:

3 hours wasted tonight trying to get past some error. I get this about
every 3 months, normally I can mess around and get it working. 3.5 hours
and a RARE CLEAR NIGHT WASTED = (
What can I go to get past this error? I did all my normal tricks and no
help.
Can't solve (I always can solve)
Can't goto (I always can go to)
What is RECALL - or RECAL and how the heck do I do it. It tells me I
can't because it's to far off.
normally I park 3 - tell it to unpark 3 and it's aligned but I have no
clue what happened or how to fix it.
Often I can also tell it to park 3 and align the white marks manually and
unpark - but that didn't work either.
FRUSTRATED 3.5 hours wasted as well as a clear night. = (
I hate APCC - don't tell me I can't RECAL - I know it's off - and I'm
trying to set it. (why it's off, I have no idea).



[image: howto restore.JPG]
[image: recall.JPG]


On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:42 PM Howard howard@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi Gang!

How's this for a switch?!?!

George and I are getting more and more calls with general questions about
imaging. As much as we both love assisting our customers, answering
questions about cameras, image calibration and processing, other
manufacturers' telescopes, we need to devote our time to subjects that are
particularly our area of expertise.

So we are asking for help. In years past, I would have referred people to
Ron Wodaski's excellent book: The New CCD Astronomy, but it is out of print
and is also now a bit dated. (It is still a marvelous book, however!!)

Where can we send people - especially beginners - for help?
What are your favorite resources for imaging information? What are your
favorite websites? Are there good resources in print? What about
instructional videos? Where can beginners go to learn about things like
dithering, sensor temperature, image scale, and the like?
Can we assemble a list of resources for our Astro-Physics family?

Speaking of information resources:
TO ALL of our imaging customers, we also STRONGLY recommend that you
check out the Advanced Imaging Conference (AIC)! AIC will be held this year
from Nov. 15 - 17 in San Jose, CA.
https://www.advancedimagingconference.com/?
This is an incredible resource for anyone interested in
astro-photography. Not only will this year's workshops be outstanding as
always, but attendance also gives attendees access to the conference
library of previous sessions. The library contains many years of
accumulated knowledge and wisdom, and is probably worth the price of
admission even if you didn't attend.

May your skies be clear, dark and steady!

Howard Hedlund
Technical Support and Communication
Astro-Physics, Inc.
11250 Forest Hills Road
Machesney Park, IL 61115
Phone: 815-282-1513
Fax: 815-282-9847
www.astro-physics.com<http://www.astro-physics.com/>
howard@astro-physics.com<mailto:howard@astro-physics.com>
Please include this e-mail with your response.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer

--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer


Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Bill Long
 

Ron call me.

206-255-5238 

I am sure we can get this working in no time.


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of Ron Kramer ronkramer1957@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 8:37 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Howard and George Need Technical Support!!
 
 

3 hours wasted tonight trying to get past some error. I get this about
every 3 months, normally I can mess around and get it working. 3.5 hours
and a RARE CLEAR NIGHT WASTED = (
What can I go to get past this error? I did all my normal tricks and no
help.
Can't solve (I always can solve)
Can't goto (I always can go to)
What is RECALL - or RECAL and how the heck do I do it. It tells me I can't
because it's to far off.
normally I park 3 - tell it to unpark 3 and it's aligned but I have no clue
what happened or how to fix it.
Often I can also tell it to park 3 and align the white marks manually and
unpark - but that didn't work either.
FRUSTRATED 3.5 hours wasted as well as a clear night. = (
I hate APCC - don't tell me I can't RECAL - I know it's off - and I'm
trying to set it. (why it's off, I have no idea).

[image: howto restore.JPG]
[image: recall.JPG]

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:42 PM Howard howard@... [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Gang!
>
> How's this for a switch?!?!
>
> George and I are getting more and more calls with general questions about
> imaging. As much as we both love assisting our customers, answering
> questions about cameras, image calibration and processing, other
> manufacturers' telescopes, we need to devote our time to subjects that are
> particularly our area of expertise.
>
> So we are asking for help. In years past, I would have referred people to
> Ron Wodaski's excellent book: The New CCD Astronomy, but it is out of print
> and is also now a bit dated. (It is still a marvelous book, however!!)
>
> Where can we send people - especially beginners - for help?
> What are your favorite resources for imaging information? What are your
> favorite websites? Are there good resources in print? What about
> instructional videos? Where can beginners go to learn about things like
> dithering, sensor temperature, image scale, and the like?
> Can we assemble a list of resources for our Astro-Physics family?
>
> Speaking of information resources:
> TO ALL of our imaging customers, we also STRONGLY recommend that you check
> out the Advanced Imaging Conference (AIC)! AIC will be held this year from
> Nov. 15 - 17 in San Jose, CA.
> https://www.advancedimagingconference.com/?
> This is an incredible resource for anyone interested in astro-photography.
> Not only will this year's workshops be outstanding as always, but
> attendance also gives attendees access to the conference library of
> previous sessions. The library contains many years of accumulated knowledge
> and wisdom, and is probably worth the price of admission even if you didn't
> attend.
>
> May your skies be clear, dark and steady!
>
> Howard Hedlund
> Technical Support and Communication
> Astro-Physics, Inc.
> 11250 Forest Hills Road
> Machesney Park, IL 61115
> Phone: 815-282-1513
> Fax: 815-282-9847
> www.astro-physics.com
> howard@...
> Please include this e-mail with your response.
>
> [aplogo]
>
> P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer




Re: Howard and George Need Technical Support!!

Ron Kramer
 

3 hours wasted tonight trying to get past some error. I get this about
every 3 months, normally I can mess around and get it working. 3.5 hours
and a RARE CLEAR NIGHT WASTED = (
What can I go to get past this error? I did all my normal tricks and no
help.
Can't solve (I always can solve)
Can't goto (I always can go to)
What is RECALL - or RECAL and how the heck do I do it. It tells me I can't
because it's to far off.
normally I park 3 - tell it to unpark 3 and it's aligned but I have no clue
what happened or how to fix it.
Often I can also tell it to park 3 and align the white marks manually and
unpark - but that didn't work either.
FRUSTRATED 3.5 hours wasted as well as a clear night. = (
I hate APCC - don't tell me I can't RECAL - I know it's off - and I'm
trying to set it. (why it's off, I have no idea).



[image: howto restore.JPG]
[image: recall.JPG]


On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 7:42 PM Howard howard@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Hi Gang!

How's this for a switch?!?!

George and I are getting more and more calls with general questions about
imaging. As much as we both love assisting our customers, answering
questions about cameras, image calibration and processing, other
manufacturers' telescopes, we need to devote our time to subjects that are
particularly our area of expertise.

So we are asking for help. In years past, I would have referred people to
Ron Wodaski's excellent book: The New CCD Astronomy, but it is out of print
and is also now a bit dated. (It is still a marvelous book, however!!)

Where can we send people - especially beginners - for help?
What are your favorite resources for imaging information? What are your
favorite websites? Are there good resources in print? What about
instructional videos? Where can beginners go to learn about things like
dithering, sensor temperature, image scale, and the like?
Can we assemble a list of resources for our Astro-Physics family?

Speaking of information resources:
TO ALL of our imaging customers, we also STRONGLY recommend that you check
out the Advanced Imaging Conference (AIC)! AIC will be held this year from
Nov. 15 - 17 in San Jose, CA.
https://www.advancedimagingconference.com/?
This is an incredible resource for anyone interested in astro-photography.
Not only will this year's workshops be outstanding as always, but
attendance also gives attendees access to the conference library of
previous sessions. The library contains many years of accumulated knowledge
and wisdom, and is probably worth the price of admission even if you didn't
attend.

May your skies be clear, dark and steady!

Howard Hedlund
Technical Support and Communication
Astro-Physics, Inc.
11250 Forest Hills Road
Machesney Park, IL 61115
Phone: 815-282-1513
Fax: 815-282-9847
www.astro-physics.com<http://www.astro-physics.com/>
howard@astro-physics.com<mailto:howard@astro-physics.com>
Please include this e-mail with your response.

[aplogo]

P Consider the environment before printing this e-mail.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



--
Ron Kramer
https://www.facebook.com/Ron.R.Kramer


Re: Helix - 200 hours of data

Karen Christen
 

Congratulations, Suavi!  A well-earned honor!  It’s the prettiest Helix I’ve ever seen.

Karen

 

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2019 4:30 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Helix - 200 hours of data

 

 

Thank you Rolando and Jim.

 

This attempt at the Helix has been recognised as an Image of the Day on Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/q9xl7a/G/#c396675

 

I would like to confess that data acquisition was MUCH easier than processing - thanks to Mach1 and SGP working night after night while I could sleep peacefully :-)


Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

mike.hambrick@...
 

Hi Roland
Regarding your comment about using a 3-prong plug for the power adapter, what about the Pyramid 13.8 Volt regulated power supply units that you sell ? They only have a 2-prong plug.


Re: Helix - 200 hours of data

slawomirlipinski@...
 

Thank you Rolando and Jim.


This attempt at the Helix has been recognised as an Image of the Day on Astrobin: https://www.astrobin.com/q9xl7a/G/#c396675


I would like to confess that data acquisition was MUCH easier than processing - thanks to Mach1 and SGP working night after night while I could sleep peacefully :-)


Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Joe Zeglinski
 

Rolando,
 
    Would it help isolate the problem source, if Martin would unplug each of the servo motor cables, one at a time?
 
     A vibration might potentially be caused by a stuck servo motor, a fallen screw/part inside the motor box, or its rubbing internally against its case/mount. Perhaps a wonky servo shaft. Might also explain the electrical tingle he feels from touching the CP4, if the short was caused by a motor power attachment,  mechanical failure, leading to a DC short to the case and mount. Otherwise, if there is still mount vibration when either motor’s power is isolated, then as you suggested, it may likely be a power source leak going to both motors via the CP4, causing the mount to conduct the vibration.
 
    Pure conjecture on my part, but I would eliminate each motor’s power feed, in turn, since a “mechanical vibration” can only emanate from a mechanical source and there are just these two,  on the mount. Besides changing the DC power supply, I suggest completely disconnecting all accessories on the telescope – just power the mount directly, in case a current leak is coming to the CP4 via some other device/accessory.
 
Joe


Unpredictable guiding with a 600e Goto

Tom Blahovici
 

Hi,

I am trying to come to grips with strange guiding behavior using my 600e (with the CP2 controller and latest roms etc).  I am wondering if perhaps I am not balancing the mount correctly for example.  The camera is an STL11000 with a Tak FSQ106.  The pixel scale is 3.5 arcs/pixel and I am using TheSkyX for autoguiding.  The mount has been polar aligned with PemPro to within 20 arc seconds of the pole in both az and alt.

Now in general it seems to be working with pulse guide and a rate of 1 and the aggressiveness has to be all the way down to 1 which means it is hardly doing anything.  At times however, changing position of the telescope (same side of the meridian and maybe 20 or so degrees away) will result in one direction of guiding continuing to increase with the corrections doing nothing.  To have it guide, I need to increase the aggressiveness higher in this direction.

If I decide to use an overall higher aggressiveness then the guiding will have a strong sawtooth pattern of over 1 pixel.

BTW I usually take 3 to 7 second exposures of the guide star.

I am wondering if balancing has something to do with this.  I keep the balance around the polar axis so that when the telescope is on the west of the meridian, the balance is heavier on the counterweight side.  I never image on the other side of the meridian since I have trees there. The Dec balance is kind of tricky.  Where should it be? Perfectly balanced?  How does one do this since when the clutches are released there is quite a spread of balance points.

As to the backlash, it was adjusted a while ago using a dial gauge and was as small as possible without causing any binding.

Any hints would be great.

Tom




Re: MACH1GTO VIBRATING

Roland Christen
 

This has NOTHING to do with your CP4 and will NOT be fixed with a CP3. Use a battery first so you can convince yourself that there is no vibration.

When using a power supply outdoors it is vital that you use a 3-pin plug and not use a 2 pin extension cord. The 3rd pin is a grounding pin which will safely carry any leakage current back to the house ground instead of finding its way to the pier via the 12 volt connector on the CP4. Power supplies can break down internally and leak dangerous 120 volt power to the 12 volt DC pins and thus to the mount and potentially to the person touching any of the metal parts.

Let me know if a 12 volt battery solves the problem.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Martin A martin.artem14@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Sat, Oct 5, 2019 12:42 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING



Thank you Rolando,

I will do that, the POWER SUPPLY is the same since few years.. but I will do that, actually that was my next action to do.. I am already searching for one other power supply..

Thank you, I will send feedback..

PS! My GTOCP3 is also not available, a ASTRONOMY FRIEND; did ask me to give him my GTOCP3, since his GTOCP3 was nit working also..

But, I will follow your advice..

Thank you Rolandi

Martin


Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 19:34 Uhr schrieb chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>:
 

I feel vibration, electricity or tickle
You may have an ungrounded power supply which has an internal leak that allows the 60 cycle power to feed thru the CP4 box to the pier and then into the earth. This is a very dangerous situation. Your power supply is most likely faulty internally and you must immediately disconnect it from your 120 volt mains. Otherwise you risk electrocution.

Do me a favor and replace the power supply with a battery and see if the vibration goes away. DO NOT use your power supply again unless you can get it properly grounded and checked out by an electrician!

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin A martin.artem14@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 5, 2019 12:11 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING



Hi Rolando,

Yes, when I put my hands on the CP4 BOX; I feel vibration, electricity or tickle ..... and when the CP4 BOX is attached to the  "Pier/Tripod Control Box Adapter for GTOCP5, GTOCP4, GTOCP3 and GTOCP2 (CBAPT) "
the vibration gets more and when I attach the CBAPT to the Adatri Adapter then the Mount base starts to vibrate and so on, until the CCD and the AUTO GUIDER SCOPE.

I did open the GTOCP4 and the screws visible they were loose, did tighten them.. but the Vibration is still available..

Only way to get the mount not vibrate is not to attach the GTICP4 BOX to the ADATRI.. the GTPCP4 still Vibrates, but not the Mount basement..

I really can*t remember when it did start.. at the very start, I though the vibrations were caused by the CCD.. did change the CCD and buy a new one, and the vibration was still there..
and then few weeks ago when the sky was again clear, i did invest time to find the reason and did start to search..

Do not know what to do now..

Cheers

Martin


Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 18:39 Uhr schrieb chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>:
 
Can you feel the CP4 vibrating when you hold it in your hand?

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Martin A martin.artem14@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 5, 2019 10:28 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING



Hi Rolando,

Ok, I do not believe it myself, but the vibration is from the GTOCP4 itself.. NOT joking..

I did take every single part attached to / with the mount, and the vibration did stop as I did take off the GTOCP4 from its base " attachment to MAACH1GTO Adatri Adapter "

I did contact Marj, and did get a short notice, I should open the GTOCP4 and see if anything unusual inside it.. or correctly told "  Please open the box and check it out. "

That is what I will do now.. will go now and open the GTOCP4 and see or what causes the vibration..



Cheers

Martin

Am Sa., 5. Okt. 2019 um 17:10 Uhr schrieb chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>:
 

the vibration is not from the upper part of the MAC1GTO but from the botton the BASE "..
When you say base, do you mean the RA axis or the part below that?
When you say vibrating, do you mean that it vibrates when you bang on the scope and then stops after a few seconds, or does it continue to vibrate like a perpetual motion machine?
What kind of scope is on your mount? What kind of pier or tripod? Where are your counterweights located?
Can you post a picture of your setup?

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Martin A martin.artem14@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sat, Oct 5, 2019 5:09 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] MACH1GTO VIBRATING



Hello Michael,

Thank you for your email and your kind answer, in the mean ime, I was in touch with Marj from AP, and did get some instructions, I did follow them, but none ithe instructions did work,
and I did by suprise and finally did find the reason or the source of it,  and why my MACH1GTO + GTOCP4 is suddenly vibrating " the vibration is not from the upper part of the MAC1GTO but from the botton the BASE "..

Waiting for further instructions from Marj..

Cheers

Martin



Am Fr., 27. Sept. 2019 um 14:03 Uhr schrieb mike.hambrick@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>:
 
I have noticed that when the cooling fan on my CCD camera (SBIG STXL16200) is running at high speed there is a noticeable vibration in my whole imaging system. This is with an 1100 mount.


Best Regards

Michael Hambrick
ARLANXEO
TSR Global Manufacturing Support
PO Box 2000
Orange, TX 77631-2000
Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799
email: mike..hambrick@...








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