|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
W Hilmo
Since I started the thread, I wanted to jump in…
I am specifically polar aligning the mount during the day – without Polaris. My only celestial reference is the sun. That works fine as long as the mount itself is level. As far as any marks on the mount itself to find the parking positions, I don’t need that since I have the absolute encoders, which will position both axes correctly. If you are curious how this works, check out the daytime polar alignment routine in the keypad manual. My original question is basically a reality check that I can abbreviate it a bit. I am pretty sure that it’s going to work fine, but I’m always interested in other ideas. My general goal is that I can have my automation set up before dusk on the first night of a star party and have the system imaging without my involvement after dark. I have already been doing this successfully for some time. Oh, and as far as the accuracy of the level, I have a small carpenter’s level that appears to be well calibrated (it reads exactly the same in either direction). I also have a much more expensive digital level, but it gets no better results that my carpenter’s level. Thanks, -Wade From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 3:20 PM To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: ... and daytime polar alignment Copy all, Mike. Thanks for the explanation. Ty Smith On Apr 21, 2019, at 17:29, Mike Dodd mike@mdodd.com <mailto:mike@mdodd.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> > wrote: On 4/21/2019 2:53 PM, Tyrel Smith tysmith747@gmail.com <mailto:tysmith747@gmail.com> [ap-gto] wrote: I guess I just don’t understand the need for a level....I use a level only to re-establish the Park 1 position after loosening the clutches to balance the mount. Oh, and also for the initial setup on a concrete pier in a new observatory. Regarding the "need" for a high-precision level, for me, it was a matter of personal preference. I like to be sure I start from a position that's fairly accurate, and I didn't mind spending the money for a level that helps me achieve this. I certainly acknowledge that other methods and instruments can and do work well, and I applaud those who get good results without high-precision tools. --- Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
|
|
|
|
Re: RASA 11 on AP Mach 1 GTO
Woody Schlom <woody@...>
Ron,
If I were you I’d put that top dovetail rail back on the scope. It’s needed for rigidity. Celestron doesn’t put top dovetail rails on any of their scopes except for the RASA 11” and RASA 14”. And the reason they go to the added expense and weight on the two larger RASA scopes is to hold them in optical alignment. I got this from a Celestron engineer the last time I was at Celestron World Headquarters in Torrance, CA. I was looking at a row of RASA 11” scopes awaiting final alignment and asked about the top dovetail rail. And he told me they needed it. Woody From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 4:36 PM To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: RASA 11 on AP Mach 1 GTO I'm using the RASA 11 on the Mach1. I removed the top dovetail from the scope as it adds a bit over 6 lbs. I still have a large dual ADM saddle bar with a 80mm guidescope on it with the RASA. I felt it may be maxing out the mount but works fine. I can't remember exactly, but I have two 21lb losmandy weights on the bar and a AP weight (I forget maybe it's a 9lb? and another losmandy about 7 lb. 58 lbs of weight? ish. Here's a photo https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58419143_2636940136317752_7274808154196541440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109 <https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58419143_2636940136317752_7274808154196541440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeGAa5I08bKCHkmEi0WpuKNIHYvtlZpftJC6rXqq9iXk8HfEfXaJiJ-5-865iV7dQWJdozfYj2IH62-f-xaGfjsSiH6sLyg7ZLVI6OQ21Z8bFQ&_nc_oc=AQl3n2JxFOyqGlRyPwIJc71Q4IojNeFQBZIZY5W7bzHfh9mxv-Hg3flyi_L1xV3-cyQ&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=e27ba638b87f1f924b4f4f4c4048a6dc&oe=5D4228C2> &_nc_eui2=AeGAa5I08bKCHkmEi0WpuKNIHYvtlZpftJC6rXqq9iXk8HfEfXaJiJ-5-865iV7dQWJdozfYj2IH62-f-xaGfjsSiH6sLyg7ZLVI6OQ21Z8bFQ&_nc_oc=AQl3n2JxFOyqGlRyPwIJc71Q4IojNeFQBZIZY5W7bzHfh9mxv-Hg3flyi_L1xV3-cyQ&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=e27ba638b87f1f924b4f4f4c4048a6dc&oe=5D4228C2 On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 12:24 PM diego_gomezp@yahoo.com <mailto:diego_gomezp@yahoo.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> > wrote: Hi Rolando/Tom, Thanks for your comments! At the end it seems that it wouldn't be a good idea to pair the RASA11 with the AP Mach1. I will continue exploring options! Regards, Diego
|
|
|
|
Re: RASA 11 on AP Mach 1 GTO
I'm using the RASA 11 on the Mach1. I removed the top dovetail from the scope as it adds a bit over 6 lbs. I still have a large dual ADM saddle bar with a 80mm guidescope on it with the RASA. I felt it may be maxing out the mount but works fine. I can't remember exactly, but I have two 21lb losmandy weights on the bar and a AP weight (I forget maybe it's a 9lb? and another losmandy about 7 lb. 58 lbs of weight? ish. Here's a photo https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58419143_2636940136317752_7274808154196541440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeGAa5I08bKCHkmEi0WpuKNIHYvtlZpftJC6rXqq9iXk8HfEfXaJiJ-5-865iV7dQWJdozfYj2IH62-f-xaGfjsSiH6sLyg7ZLVI6OQ21Z8bFQ&_nc_oc=AQl3n2JxFOyqGlRyPwIJc71Q4IojNeFQBZIZY5W7bzHfh9mxv-Hg3flyi_L1xV3-cyQ&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=e27ba638b87f1f924b4f4f4c4048a6dc&oe=5D4228C2
|
|
|
|
ANYONE using GTO4 and INDI?
I've converted over to INDI and loving it except I'm having a strange situation when I try to calibrate the guider. It starts fine with tiny movements in the star... then after 8- clicks or so it will lose the star and the mount starts doing calibration jumps across the sky! Another Mach1 user has the same thing. I'm wondering if any AP mount user has been using INDI and successfully guiding? (which driver?) I'm using AstroPhysics Experimental driver currently.
|
|
|
|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
Tyrel Smith
Copy all, Mike. Thanks for the explanation.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Ty Smith
On Apr 21, 2019, at 17:29, Mike Dodd mike@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
On 4/21/2019 2:53 PM, Tyrel Smith tysmith747@gmail.com [ap-gto] wrote:
I guess I just don’t understand the need for a level....I use a level only to re-establish the Park 1 position after loosening the clutches to balance the mount. Oh, and also for the initial setup on a concrete pier in a new observatory. Regarding the "need" for a high-precision level, for me, it was a matter of personal preference. I like to be sure I start from a position that's fairly accurate, and I didn't mind spending the money for a level that helps me achieve this. I certainly acknowledge that other methods and instruments can and do work well, and I applaud those who get good results without high-precision tools. --- Mike
|
|
|
|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
On 4/21/2019 1:16 PM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@rogers.com [ap-gto] wrote:
Very cool, Joe. Congratulations on a great idea. --- Mike
|
|
|
|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
Tyrel Smith
Joe, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Ty Smith
On Apr 21, 2019, at 15:51, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
Joe Zeglinski
Hi Tyrel,
I agree with your comments.
In fact. as Rolando has said at times, you can even stand the mount on the
side of a sloping hill, polar align on Polaris (with some added difficulty in
such case), and you are no worse off than fidgeting with a level. One might use
a bubble level for dusk time alignment, to prepare the mount for RAPID
deployment. Your comments on RCAL are right on the mark, of course, but polar
alignment is so much easier, if you are starting from an already, fairly
accurately positioned platform. I don’t need “pencil marks” for either of my
older mounts since the AP-900/1200 already has setting circles and their zero
reference marks, can be used for the same purpose, if desired. Only place
I made ink marker positions is on the counterweight bar, for various cwt
positions if I change major scope accessories, and also ink markers on a
“bandage taped to the D-Plate edge”, to shift the OTA in the plate, in
balancing the OTA when accessories (camera, guider, rotator, etc) are
changed.
Most of the time, in fact for years, I just use a small
bubble level for a quick mount level “confidence check”.
I use a bubble level on my fixed backyard setup, before
each session, just to confirm the heavy scope hasn’t slipped its clutched
positions in long intervening periods. It is also possible that in spite of
being covered in a light nylon tarp, severe wind gusts could have caused an axis
clutch slip as well. Having learned a severe lesson about mushroomed “clutch
plugs” in the older series, I now follow the manual instructions NOT to tighten
the clutches, beyond finger-tip tight.
So, I use an inexpensive, but fairly good,
pocket-sized bubble level (with its magnetic strip, longitudinal groove),
just to confirm all is orthogonal with the celestial sphere.
****** Otherwise *******
However, at the time (2016), when I came up with my
“pipette bubble level”, I was investigating why the mount east & west sides
were not giving identical pointing accuracies, and indeed different PEMPRO
results, depending on which side of the sky it was performed. I needed a super
accurate bubble, placed horizontally on the mount base plate, to see if the
entire mount on its Losmandy HD tripod may be “tilting or wobbling”, perhaps due
to the ground under the tripod feet’s buried concrete block support, shifting or
giving way, when switching sides. The nice foot-long bubble on the
pipette, was a perfect “motion or disturbance indicator” as I performed a
daytime Meridian Flip – and the bubble stayed in its position. The air bubble
itself didn’t need to be at center, for that test. I only realized later, that
the existing mm-markings meant for measuring lab fluids, was also bonus as an
accurate millimetre “distance” scale for the bubble’s travel, and
indication of how rapidly the tilt was happening, It was important to know if
there was a gradual sinking of a pier footing to one side, or if it were a
severe flip-flop each time. If the former, then it was soil related, if it were
quick, then there might have been sloppiness in screws, machining tolerances
(never !), or clutch lock down.
So, no extra work required in adding a measurement
recording scale for its use as a bubble level. In fact, I used a camera in movie
mode to record any drift of the bubble moving in the log scale, for mechanical
drift playback post-analysis.
Once I proved to myself – thanks to the DYI Pipette
Bubble Level - that the mount and rugged tripod was sturdy and stood
motionless under all “external” influences, I found other uses for the level on
the OTA, etc. However, I was quite impressed in its use as an expensive, more
precise, and accurate bubble level. So, I don’t use it regularly, per your
comments, but it is nice to have it in my kit, if I ever require a “huge,
accurate, easy to use” bubble level, that is temperature independent, doesn’t
stick, and doesn’t even require batteries.
Joe Z.
|
|
|
|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
I also see no value to using such a high precision level for this purpose. I use very cheap 1" plastic levels attached to my scope when I need to initialize my mount and camera during the day followed by a plate solve early at night. But I wonder if high precision levels would be of value in setting up a pier?
Greg
|
|
|
|
Re: APCC in Admin Mode?
Ray Gralak
Thanks Ray. Is there a need to create an additional port?No, it is done automatically. -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message-----
|
|
|
|
Re: APCC in Admin Mode?
Wayne Hixson
Thanks Ray. Is there a need to create an additional port?
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
On Apr 21, 2019, at 11:43 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
Tyrel Smith
I guess I just don’t understand the need for a level, and especially the need for a level each time you tear down/set up, when some very simple indices on the mount make life so simple. Placing a flat-bottomed level on a round counterweight shaft is not that accurate. One with a v-bottom or groove of some sort, mabye more so. I’m more intrigued by this need for an extreme level of accuracy setting up your park position with a level, when all that effort is seemingly nullified when you do your first goto and recal (of if you are imaging, your first plate solve/sync). If you do a goto and recal, then send the mount to your preferred park position, it should then be in the most accurate representation of that park position, regardless of how well you leveled the counterweight shaft when you set up your preferred park position. My understanding is that the only thing accomplished by a precise predetermination of your park position is the accuracy of the very first goto command. Do I have a misunderstanding of how the mount behaves. I’d like to be corrected if that is the case. I could have some previous mount logic creeping in.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Having some indices on your axis has the benefit of being able to unlock the clutches and then being able to relatively accurately (the width of a pencil mark) put the mount back in the park position without a trip to the toolbox. Seriously, I have never once put a level on my Mach1 counterweight shaft. I did one platesolve/sync, sent the mount to park 3, put a piece of tape across the two axis with a pen mark, cut the tape with a razor, and moved on. At the end of my imaging sessions when I send the mount back to park 3 it lines the pen lines up every time. I either unpark from last position, or line up the marks and unpark from park 3. If I am missing something, someone please let me know. I’m always looking for ways to improve my setup. If using the level is zen/ritualistic thing for some folks, thats ok by me. There is no judgement in this dojo!
|
|
|
|
Re: APCC in Admin Mode?
Ray Gralak
Wayne, it is okay for the second driver instance. APCC's virtual ports are allocated to handle the two instances.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
-Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
-----Original Message-----
|
|
|
|
APCC in Admin Mode?
Wayne Hixson
I’m running an imaging automation program called Voyager. It integrates with and manages other software like The Sky X, MaximDL, PHD2 etc to accomplish its functions. To do this, it must run in Admin mode. Per recommendations here, APCC is not run in admin mode. The result is that Viyager opens a second instance of the AP ASCOM driver. I haven’t used it enough to know if this will cause a problem, so looking for advice from Ray or others as to how to address it. Is it a problem to run APCC in Admin mode?
Thanks, Wayne
|
|
|
|
Re: APCC Modeling a pointing model
Ray Gralak
Konstantin,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Okay, I'll be able to see the version in the logs I will need from you. Please use APCC's log zipper utility and include the APCC, APPM, and ASCOM driver logs. This might be something specific to the 3600 mount so please email the logs to me and Howard. If they are too big (>6MB) you may need to email us a dropbox link. -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
-----Original Message-----
|
|
|
|
Re: APCC Modeling a pointing model
Hi Ray,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I can not find a way to prove it cause the mount is not here in Hamburg. I can remember that I have changed it with my computer with a connection over ethernet. Marj send a mail with the announcement of the update and I can’t remember of another one. Was it this zip file that was downloadable? VCP4-P01-11_WiFi_A402_secure Konstantin
Konstantin v. Poschinger
Hammerichstr. 5 22605 Hamburg 040/8805747 0171 1983476
|
|
|
|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
Joe Zeglinski
Mike,
Have a look at my DYI Bubble Level in this group’s FILES
section – Because the bubble’s travel is a “foot long”, it is far more precise
than my STARRETT. The “pipette” is already marked out with fine millimetre
divisions by design, since it is already precisely marked for measuring
“millilitres” in the lab. That’s “lab accuracy” as good as for a machinist’s
use.
It also cost me about $2 (for a used pipette – they are
disposable, easier to find), compared to a Starrett costing over a hundred (?)
dollars, and is far easier to read a large bubble on a long path. Because it has
so much more fluid, the bubble starts to travel at just a hare’s breath of a
tilt, compared to the smaller tube in a machinist’s level. Besides, the pipette
is Plexiglas, or tempered glass, (lab use safety concern), so it won’t break
when dropped or banged in travel, as my old STARRETT glass tube did.
you can fill the pipette bubble level with turpentine,
radiator cold weather antifreeze, or with (coloured) winter windshield wiper
fluid, for outdoor cold temperature use. You can even add an LED lighting to the
tube top or ends for easier night use.
See PDF article and photos: DIY BUBBLE LEVEL TOOL.pdf ( ASTROJAZ - Jan 31,
2016)
Joe Z.
|
|
|
|
Re: ... and daytime polar alignment
Wayne Hixson
One thing about the Starrett glass levels. If you leave it on the scope or counterweight shaft and slew to the next position, it WILL fall off and it WILL break and it WILL be expensive to replace! I know!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Wayne
On Apr 21, 2019, at 10:09 AM, Mike Dodd mike@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
|
|
|
|
Re: APCC Modeling a pointing model
Ray Gralak
GTOCP4 with the newest firmware.Which version exactly? "Newest version" can mean different things to different people! -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message-----
|
|
|