Date   

New file uploaded to ap-gto

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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ap-gto
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File : /Mach2 Guide results/2019-04-20_1734.jpg
Uploaded by : uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>
Description : RMS guide results at 1 sec guide exposure

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/files/Mach2%20Guide%20results/2019-04-20_1734.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com>


Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

Roland Christen
 

I think your approach is fine for Park2 and Park3. Park1 and 4 is dependent on your latitude where you are setting up your mount, so that requires some sort of leveling device.
Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Tyrel Smith tysmith747@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2019 1:53 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

#yiv3430137124 #yiv3430137124 -- #yiv3430137124 .yiv3430137124ygrp-photo-title{ clear:both;font-size:smaller;min-height:15px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;width:75px;} #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124ygrp-photo{ background-position:center;background-repeat:no-repeat;background-color:white;border:1px solid black;min-height:62px;width:62px;} #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124photo-title a, #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124photo-title a:active, #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124photo-title a:hover, #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124photo-title a:visited { text-decoration:none; } #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124attach-table div.yiv3430137124attach-row { clear:both;} #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124attach-table div.yiv3430137124attach-row div { float:left;} #yiv3430137124 p { clear:both;padding:15px 0 3px 0;overflow:hidden;} #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124ygrp-file { width:30px;} #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124attach-table div.yiv3430137124attach-row div div a { text-decoration:none;} #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124attach-table div.yiv3430137124attach-row div div span { font-weight:normal;} #yiv3430137124 div.yiv3430137124ygrp-file-title { font-weight:bold;} #yiv3430137124 #yiv3430137124

I guess I just don’t understand the need for a level, and especially the need for a level each time you tear down/set up, when some very simple indices on the mount make life so simple. Placing a flat-bottomed level on a round counterweight shaft is not that accurate. One with a v-bottom or groove of some sort, mabye more so. I’m more intrigued by this need for an extreme level of accuracy setting up your park position with a level, when all that effort is seemingly nullified when you do your first goto and recal (of if you are imaging, your first plate solve/sync). If you do a goto and recal, then send the mount to your preferred park position, it should then be in the most accurate representation of that park position, regardless of how well you leveled the counterweight shaft when you set up your preferred park position. My understanding is that the only thing accomplished by a precise predetermination of your park position is the accuracy of the very first goto command. Do I have a misunderstanding of how the mount behaves. I’d like to be corrected if that is the case. I could have some previous mount logic creeping in.
Having some indices on your axis has the benefit of being able to unlock the clutches and then being able to relatively accurately (the width of a pencil mark) put the mount back in the park position without a trip to the toolbox.
Seriously, I have never once put a level on my Mach1 counterweight shaft. I did one platesolve/sync, sent the mount to park 3, put a piece of tape across the two axis with a pen mark, cut the tape with a razor, and moved on. At the end of my imaging sessions when I send the mount back to park 3 it lines the pen lines up every time. I either unpark from last position, or line up the marks and unpark from park 3. If I am missing something, someone please let me know. I’m always looking for ways to improve my setup. If using the level is zen/ritualistic thing for some folks, thats ok by me. There is no judgement in this dojo! 



On Apr 21, 2019, at 13:16, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@rogers.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Mike,     Have a look at my DYI Bubble Level in this group’s FILES section – Because the bubble’s travel is a “foot long”, it is far more precise than my STARRETT.  The “pipette” is already marked out with fine millimetre divisions by design, since it is already precisely marked for measuring “millilitres” in the lab. That’s “lab accuracy” as good as for a machinist’s use.     It also cost me about $2 (for a used pipette – they are disposable, easier to find), compared to a Starrett costing over a hundred (?) dollars, and is far easier to read a large bubble on a long path. Because it has so much more fluid, the bubble starts to travel at just a hare’s breath of a tilt, compared to the smaller tube in a machinist’s level. Besides, the pipette is Plexiglas, or tempered glass, (lab use safety concern), so it won’t break when dropped or banged in travel,  as my old STARRETT glass tube did.     you can fill the pipette bubble level with turpentine, radiator cold weather antifreeze, or with (coloured) winter windshield wiper fluid, for outdoor cold temperature use. You can even add an LED lighting to the tube top or ends for easier night use.     See PDF article  and photos:   DIY BUBBLE LEVEL TOOL.pdf  ( ASTROJAZ - Jan 31, 2016) Joe Z.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

Roland Christen
 


Instead of the level, why not just put marks on the RA and dec axis so you always know where an accurate park position is? Seems much more repeatable then eyeballing a level each time.
That works if you have a permanent setup.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Tyrel Smith tysmith747@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Sun, Apr 21, 2019 9:13 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: ... and daytime polar alignment



Just a thought. Instead of the level, why not just put marks on the RA and dec axis so you always know where an accurate park position is? Seems much more repeatable then eyeballing a level each time.

I did this once after a night of platesolving. Once you are well calibrated (platesolve and sync to remove zero position error) send the mount to your preferred park position.  Then just put some tape or some kind of mark across the axis that you can line up whenever you need to manually put the mount in park position. 

Maybe this doesn’t work for all mount, but I did this with my Mach1 just once. I’ve never needed to use a level. I’d like to know if I’m off-base with this, though. 

Ty Smith

On Apr 21, 2019, at 09:56, Mike Dodd mike@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 
On 4/21/2019 8:38 AM, y.groups@... [ap-gto] wrote:
> 5) Using a carpenter's level, use pier adjustments to level the
> counterweight shaft.
> 6) Using a carpenter's level, use the mount's altitude adjustment to
> level the OTA.

I'd like to propose an alternative to a carpenter's level.

My AP1200 is pier-mounted and drift-aligned, so I don't have the same
situation you do. But I loosen the clutches to re-balance the mount
after changing imaging equipment. I use a level on the CW shaft and the
OTA to return to the Park 1 position after balance is achieved. (Yes,
I'm still using Park 1, not 4, and yes, I know the issues with Park 1.)

Instead of a carpenter's level, I use a Starrett #98-6 precision
machinist's level
<https://www.amazon.com/Precision-Machinists-NIST-Traceable-Calibration-Certificate/dp/B07579PWPL>.

This level is super-accurate! One division on the glass vial is 86
arc-seconds. It's easy to read to within 1/4 of a division, or 21.5
arc-seconds. That's MUCH better than I can get on my carpenter's bubble
level, or even on my electronic level that displays only to 1/10 degree.

Here's what I do:

1. Use the keypad to park the mount in Park 1.

2. Set the machinist's level on the CW shaft and take a photo of the
bubble position.

3. Set the level on the OTA and take a photo of the bubble position.

NOTE: Steps 2 and 3 record the MOUNT'S Park 1 position. So, if my
original Park 1 position was a bit off, I can return to the MOUNT'S
position.

NOTE: The level has a V-groove on the bottom that makes it easy to
position it accurately on the CW shaft and the OTA.

4. Remove the level, loosen the clutches, and do whatever I need to do.

5. Move the mount back close to the Park 1 position.

6. Set the machinist's level on the CW shaft and adjust the RA until the
bubble is in exactly the same spot as in the step-2 photo, then tighten
the RA clutches.

7. Set the machinist's level on the OTA and adjust the Dec until the
bubble is in exactly the same spot as in the step-3 photo, then tighten
the Dec clutches.

8. Power-up the mount, and select "Resume Ref-Park 1" on the keypad.

As a testament to the level's accuracy, when I complete this procedure,
I can GOTO a target star, and it will be within the central 15% of my
camera's sensor.

The Starrett #98-6 isn't cheap. I bought mine specifically for leveling
the telescope, and have never regretted spending the money.

I also use it to level the AP1200's mounting plate on my concrete pier:
<http://astronomy.mdodd.com/observatory.html#PierBolts>

Just a suggestion for an alternative to a carpenter's level....

--
Mike

Mike Dodd
http://astronomy.mdodd.com
Louisa County, Virginia USA



Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

jimmyjujames
 


Made some calculations on how accurate is a line on cut tape on Dec head/RA axis?

If a 7 inch diameter Dec head then 1 arc-min is abut 0.001 inches.

My pen draws about 11 lines per 1/4 inch.  44 lines per inch.

0.022 inches per line width.

0.022/0.001 = 22 arc-min line width.

I suspect I can align the 2 lines closer than 1 line apart. 
Probable closer than 1/2 a line which would be less than 11 arc-min.

I think I will switch from my cheap bubble level to a line on cut tape for Park 3 setup.

These lines may not be as accurate on portable setups if the pier is not leveled the same.

I guess I should keep my bubble level.

As always I may be wrong again.
Jimmy


Re: APCC Modeling a pointing model

Konstantin von Poschinger
 

Hi Ray,

is groups3@... the right address. The one from Howard I have.

Konstantin


Konstantin v. Poschinger

Hammerichstr. 5
22605 Hamburg
040/8805747
0171 1983476

Am 21.04.2019 um 19:48 schrieb 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>:

Konstantin,

Okay, I'll be able to see the version in the logs I will need from you. Please use APCC's log zipper utility and include the APCC, APPM, and ASCOM driver logs.

This might be something specific to the 3600 mount so please email the logs to me and Howard. If they are too big (>6MB) you may need to email us a dropbox link.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc 
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 10:34 AM
> To: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto]
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Modeling a pointing model
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Ray,
> 
> I can not find a way to prove it cause the mount is not here in Hamburg. I can remember that I have changed it
> with my computer with a connection over ethernet. Marj send a mail with the announcement of the update and I
> can’t remember of another one.
> 
> Was it this zip file that was downloadable? VCP4-P01-11_WiFi_A402_secure
> 
> Konstantin
> 
> 
> Konstantin v. Poschinger
> 
> Hammerichstr. 5
> 22605 Hamburg
> 040/8805747
> 0171 1983476
> 
> 
> Am 21.04.2019 um 19:11 schrieb 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > gto@...>:
> 
> 
> > GTOCP4 with the newest firmware.
> 
> Which version exactly? "Newest version" can mean different things to different people!
> 
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com <https://www.ccdware..com/>
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 8:10 AM
> > To: ap-gto@...
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC Modeling a pointing model
> >
> >
> >
> > GTOCP4 with the newest firmware.
> >
> >
> > Grüsse
> >
> > Konstantin v. Poschinger
> >
> >
> > Hammerichstr. 5
> > 22605 Hamburg
> > 040/8805747
> > 0171/1983476
> >
> > Am 21.04.2019 um 14:41 schrieb 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > > gto@...>:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Konstantin,
> >
> > Which controller and version of firmware are you using?
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> <http://physics..com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc>
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2019 3:26 AM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: [ap-gto] APCC Modeling a pointing model
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Ray,
> > >
> > > when I buid a pointing model, the mount do after a slew again a short slew. This, when I have points in
> > the
> > > counterwight up position, ended in a big reslew to the meridian and back to the point that should be
> > mesured.
> > > Sometimes the reslew happened more than one time.
> > > How can I prevent the big reslews?
> > > I use the latest APCC Pro 1.7.1.1 and AP-V2 5.20.09
> > >
> > > Grüsse
> > >
> > > Konstantin v. Poschinger
> > >
> > > Hammerichstr. 5
> > > 22605 Hamburg
> > > 040/8805747
> > > 0171/1983476
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



Re: Mach2 mount - answers to questions

Nick Kanel
 

I already kinda asked George this question, but I don't know if I was specific enough. I just want to make sure what he said is still valid.

I'm interested in mounting a PlaneWave 14" CDK on a Mach2 (more detailed "proposed setup" info here: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/657619-seeking-recommendations-advice-and-answers-regarding-future-permanent-setup/). My biggest concern is the capacity of the Mach2. It says 75lbs, however the 14" CDK is a pretty tall scope and would increase the setup's moment of inertia pretty substantially (at its highest point, it stands 19" tall off the mount saddle (see here: http://planewave.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2013/10/140101A-OVERALL-DIMENSIONS.pdf) and is almost ~4 feet long when you factor in the camera and backfocus. The total weight would probably be somewhere around 67lbs (plus or minus 2).

With my proposed camera, I'd need to guide at 0.3" RMS or better to get sub-pixel tracking/guiding. I'm having trouble figuring out if I can even guide since I'd have to somehow deal with flexure. If anyone has thoughts on that I'd be happy to hear them. But the main question is with this setup, can I reasonably expect to track at sub-0.3" RMS without guiding (as long as my PA is perfect) or guide at sub-0.3" RMS with guiding (if that's even possible)?

Thanks
Nick


Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

W Hilmo
 

Since I started the thread, I wanted to jump in…



I am specifically polar aligning the mount during the day – without Polaris. My only celestial reference is the sun. That works fine as long as the mount itself is level. As far as any marks on the mount itself to find the parking positions, I don’t need that since I have the absolute encoders, which will position both axes correctly.



If you are curious how this works, check out the daytime polar alignment routine in the keypad manual. My original question is basically a reality check that I can abbreviate it a bit. I am pretty sure that it’s going to work fine, but I’m always interested in other ideas. My general goal is that I can have my automation set up before dusk on the first night of a star party and have the system imaging without my involvement after dark. I have already been doing this successfully for some time.



Oh, and as far as the accuracy of the level, I have a small carpenter’s level that appears to be well calibrated (it reads exactly the same in either direction). I also have a much more expensive digital level, but it gets no better results that my carpenter’s level.



Thanks,

-Wade



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 3:20 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: ... and daytime polar alignment





Copy all, Mike. Thanks for the explanation.

Ty Smith


On Apr 21, 2019, at 17:29, Mike Dodd mike@mdodd.com <mailto:mike@mdodd.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:



On 4/21/2019 2:53 PM, Tyrel Smith tysmith747@gmail.com <mailto:tysmith747@gmail.com> [ap-gto] wrote:

I guess I just don’t understand the need for a level....
I use a level only to re-establish the Park 1 position after loosening
the clutches to balance the mount. Oh, and also for the initial setup on
a concrete pier in a new observatory.

Regarding the "need" for a high-precision level, for me, it was a matter
of personal preference. I like to be sure I start from a position that's
fairly accurate, and I didn't mind spending the money for a level that
helps me achieve this.

I certainly acknowledge that other methods and instruments can and do
work well, and I applaud those who get good results without
high-precision tools.

--- Mike





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: RASA 11 on AP Mach 1 GTO

Woody Schlom <woody@...>
 

Ron,



If I were you I’d put that top dovetail rail back on the scope. It’s needed for rigidity. Celestron doesn’t put top dovetail rails on any of their scopes except for the RASA 11” and RASA 14”. And the reason they go to the added expense and weight on the two larger RASA scopes is to hold them in optical alignment.



I got this from a Celestron engineer the last time I was at Celestron World Headquarters in Torrance, CA. I was looking at a row of RASA 11” scopes awaiting final alignment and asked about the top dovetail rail. And he told me they needed it.



Woody



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 4:36 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: RASA 11 on AP Mach 1 GTO





I'm using the RASA 11 on the Mach1. I removed the top dovetail from the scope as it adds a bit over 6 lbs. I still have a large dual ADM saddle bar with a 80mm guidescope on it with the RASA. I felt it may be maxing out the mount but works fine. I can't remember exactly, but I have two 21lb losmandy weights on the bar and a AP weight (I forget maybe it's a 9lb? and another losmandy about 7 lb. 58 lbs of weight? ish.
Here's a photo

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58419143_2636940136317752_7274808154196541440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109 <https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58419143_2636940136317752_7274808154196541440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeGAa5I08bKCHkmEi0WpuKNIHYvtlZpftJC6rXqq9iXk8HfEfXaJiJ-5-865iV7dQWJdozfYj2IH62-f-xaGfjsSiH6sLyg7ZLVI6OQ21Z8bFQ&_nc_oc=AQl3n2JxFOyqGlRyPwIJc71Q4IojNeFQBZIZY5W7bzHfh9mxv-Hg3flyi_L1xV3-cyQ&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=e27ba638b87f1f924b4f4f4c4048a6dc&oe=5D4228C2> &_nc_eui2=AeGAa5I08bKCHkmEi0WpuKNIHYvtlZpftJC6rXqq9iXk8HfEfXaJiJ-5-865iV7dQWJdozfYj2IH62-f-xaGfjsSiH6sLyg7ZLVI6OQ21Z8bFQ&_nc_oc=AQl3n2JxFOyqGlRyPwIJc71Q4IojNeFQBZIZY5W7bzHfh9mxv-Hg3flyi_L1xV3-cyQ&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=e27ba638b87f1f924b4f4f4c4048a6dc&oe=5D4228C2



On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 12:24 PM diego_gomezp@yahoo.com <mailto:diego_gomezp@yahoo.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:



Hi Rolando/Tom,



Thanks for your comments! At the end it seems that it wouldn't be a good idea to pair the RASA11 with the AP Mach1.



I will continue exploring options!



Regards,

Diego


Re: RASA 11 on AP Mach 1 GTO

Ron Kramer
 

I'm using the RASA 11 on the Mach1.  I removed the top dovetail from the scope as it adds a bit over 6 lbs.  I still have a large dual ADM saddle bar with a 80mm guidescope on it with the RASA. I felt it may be maxing out the mount but works fine.  I can't remember exactly, but I have two 21lb losmandy weights on the bar and a AP weight (I forget maybe it's a 9lb? and another losmandy about 7 lb.   58 lbs of weight? ish.
Here's a photo

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/58419143_2636940136317752_7274808154196541440_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_eui2=AeGAa5I08bKCHkmEi0WpuKNIHYvtlZpftJC6rXqq9iXk8HfEfXaJiJ-5-865iV7dQWJdozfYj2IH62-f-xaGfjsSiH6sLyg7ZLVI6OQ21Z8bFQ&_nc_oc=AQl3n2JxFOyqGlRyPwIJc71Q4IojNeFQBZIZY5W7bzHfh9mxv-Hg3flyi_L1xV3-cyQ&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=e27ba638b87f1f924b4f4f4c4048a6dc&oe=5D4228C2

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 12:24 PM diego_gomezp@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

Hi Rolando/Tom,


Thanks for your comments! At the end it seems that it wouldn't be a good idea to pair the RASA11 with the AP Mach1.

I will continue exploring options!

Regards,
Diego


ANYONE using GTO4 and INDI?

Ron Kramer
 

I've converted over to INDI and loving it except I'm having a strange situation when I try to calibrate the guider. It starts fine with tiny movements in the star... then after 8- clicks or so it will lose the star and the mount starts doing calibration jumps across the sky!  Another Mach1 user has the same thing. I'm wondering if any AP mount user has been using INDI and successfully guiding?  (which driver?) I'm using  AstroPhysics Experimental driver currently. 


When I try PHD2 on Linux it does the same thing.  If I use PHD2 on Windows it's fine. 



Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

Tyrel Smith
 

Copy all, Mike. Thanks for the explanation.

Ty Smith

On Apr 21, 2019, at 17:29, Mike Dodd mike@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

On 4/21/2019 2:53 PM, Tyrel Smith tysmith747@... [ap-gto] wrote:

> I guess I just don’t understand the need for a level....

I use a level only to re-establish the Park 1 position after loosening
the clutches to balance the mount. Oh, and also for the initial setup on
a concrete pier in a new observatory.

Regarding the "need" for a high-precision level, for me, it was a matter
of personal preference. I like to be sure I start from a position that's
fairly accurate, and I didn't mind spending the money for a level that
helps me achieve this.

I certainly acknowledge that other methods and instruments can and do
work well, and I applaud those who get good results without
high-precision tools.

--- Mike


Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

Mike Dodd
 

On 4/21/2019 2:53 PM, Tyrel Smith tysmith747@gmail.com [ap-gto] wrote:

I guess I just don’t understand the need for a level....
I use a level only to re-establish the Park 1 position after loosening the clutches to balance the mount. Oh, and also for the initial setup on a concrete pier in a new observatory.

Regarding the "need" for a high-precision level, for me, it was a matter of personal preference. I like to be sure I start from a position that's fairly accurate, and I didn't mind spending the money for a level that helps me achieve this.

I certainly acknowledge that other methods and instruments can and do work well, and I applaud those who get good results without high-precision tools.

--- Mike


Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

Mike Dodd
 

On 4/21/2019 1:16 PM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@rogers.com [ap-gto] wrote:


Mike,
Have a look at my DYI Bubble Level in this group’s FILES section –
Because the bubble’s travel is a “foot long”, it is far more precise
than my STARRETT.
Very cool, Joe. Congratulations on a great idea.

--- Mike


Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

Tyrel Smith
 

Joe, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

Ty Smith

On Apr 21, 2019, at 15:51, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

Hi Tyrel,
 
    I agree with your comments.
In fact. as Rolando has said at times, you can even stand the mount on the side of a sloping hill, polar align on Polaris (with some added difficulty in such case), and you are no worse off than fidgeting with a level. One might use a bubble level for dusk time alignment, to prepare the mount for RAPID deployment. Your comments on RCAL are right on the mark, of course, but polar alignment is so much easier, if you are starting from an already, fairly accurately positioned platform. I don’t need “pencil marks” for either of my older mounts since the AP-900/1200 already has setting circles and their zero reference marks,  can be used for the same purpose, if desired. Only place I made  ink marker positions is on the counterweight bar, for various cwt positions if I change major scope accessories, and also ink markers on a “bandage taped to the D-Plate edge”, to shift the OTA in the plate,  in balancing the OTA when accessories (camera, guider, rotator, etc) are changed.
 
    Most of the time, in fact for years, I just use a small bubble level for a quick mount level “confidence check”.
 
    I use a bubble level on my fixed backyard setup, before each session, just to confirm the heavy scope hasn’t slipped its clutched positions in long intervening periods. It is also possible that in spite of being covered in a light nylon tarp, severe wind gusts could have caused an axis clutch slip as well. Having learned a severe lesson about mushroomed “clutch plugs” in the older series, I now follow the manual instructions NOT to tighten the clutches, beyond finger-tip tight.
 
    So, I use an inexpensive, but fairly good,  pocket-sized  bubble level (with its magnetic strip, longitudinal groove), just to confirm all is orthogonal with the celestial sphere.
 
****** Otherwise *******
 
    However, at the time (2016), when I came up with my “pipette bubble level”, I was investigating why the mount east & west sides were not giving identical pointing accuracies, and indeed different PEMPRO results, depending on which side of the sky it was performed. I needed a super accurate bubble, placed horizontally on the mount base plate, to see if the entire mount on its Losmandy HD tripod may be “tilting or wobbling”, perhaps due to the ground under the tripod feet’s buried concrete block support, shifting or giving way,  when switching sides. The nice foot-long bubble on the pipette, was a perfect “motion or disturbance indicator” as I performed a daytime Meridian Flip – and the bubble stayed in its position. The air bubble itself didn’t need to be at center, for that test. I only realized later, that the existing mm-markings meant for measuring lab fluids, was also bonus as an accurate millimetre “distance” scale for the bubble’s travel,  and indication of how rapidly the tilt was happening, It was important to know if there was a gradual sinking of a pier footing to one side, or if it were  a severe flip-flop each time. If the former, then it was soil related, if it were quick, then there might have been sloppiness in screws, machining tolerances (never !),  or clutch lock down.
 
    So,  no extra work required in adding a measurement recording scale for its use as a bubble level. In fact, I used a camera in movie mode to record any drift of the bubble moving in the log scale, for mechanical drift playback post-analysis.
 
    Once I proved to myself – thanks to the DYI Pipette Bubble Level -  that the mount and rugged tripod was sturdy and stood motionless under all “external” influences, I found other uses for the level on the OTA, etc. However, I was quite impressed in its use as an expensive, more precise, and accurate bubble level. So, I don’t use it regularly, per your comments, but it is nice to have it in my kit, if I ever require a “huge, accurate, easy to use” bubble level, that is temperature independent, doesn’t stick,  and doesn’t even require batteries.
 
Joe Z.
 


Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi Tyrel,
 
    I agree with your comments.
In fact. as Rolando has said at times, you can even stand the mount on the side of a sloping hill, polar align on Polaris (with some added difficulty in such case), and you are no worse off than fidgeting with a level. One might use a bubble level for dusk time alignment, to prepare the mount for RAPID deployment. Your comments on RCAL are right on the mark, of course, but polar alignment is so much easier, if you are starting from an already, fairly accurately positioned platform. I don’t need “pencil marks” for either of my older mounts since the AP-900/1200 already has setting circles and their zero reference marks,  can be used for the same purpose, if desired. Only place I made  ink marker positions is on the counterweight bar, for various cwt positions if I change major scope accessories, and also ink markers on a “bandage taped to the D-Plate edge”, to shift the OTA in the plate,  in balancing the OTA when accessories (camera, guider, rotator, etc) are changed.
 
    Most of the time, in fact for years, I just use a small bubble level for a quick mount level “confidence check”.
 
    I use a bubble level on my fixed backyard setup, before each session, just to confirm the heavy scope hasn’t slipped its clutched positions in long intervening periods. It is also possible that in spite of being covered in a light nylon tarp, severe wind gusts could have caused an axis clutch slip as well. Having learned a severe lesson about mushroomed “clutch plugs” in the older series, I now follow the manual instructions NOT to tighten the clutches, beyond finger-tip tight.
 
    So, I use an inexpensive, but fairly good,  pocket-sized  bubble level (with its magnetic strip, longitudinal groove), just to confirm all is orthogonal with the celestial sphere.
 
****** Otherwise *******
 
    However, at the time (2016), when I came up with my “pipette bubble level”, I was investigating why the mount east & west sides were not giving identical pointing accuracies, and indeed different PEMPRO results, depending on which side of the sky it was performed. I needed a super accurate bubble, placed horizontally on the mount base plate, to see if the entire mount on its Losmandy HD tripod may be “tilting or wobbling”, perhaps due to the ground under the tripod feet’s buried concrete block support, shifting or giving way,  when switching sides. The nice foot-long bubble on the pipette, was a perfect “motion or disturbance indicator” as I performed a daytime Meridian Flip – and the bubble stayed in its position. The air bubble itself didn’t need to be at center, for that test. I only realized later, that the existing mm-markings meant for measuring lab fluids, was also bonus as an accurate millimetre “distance” scale for the bubble’s travel,  and indication of how rapidly the tilt was happening, It was important to know if there was a gradual sinking of a pier footing to one side, or if it were  a severe flip-flop each time. If the former, then it was soil related, if it were quick, then there might have been sloppiness in screws, machining tolerances (never !),  or clutch lock down.
 
    So,  no extra work required in adding a measurement recording scale for its use as a bubble level. In fact, I used a camera in movie mode to record any drift of the bubble moving in the log scale, for mechanical drift playback post-analysis.
 
    Once I proved to myself – thanks to the DYI Pipette Bubble Level -  that the mount and rugged tripod was sturdy and stood motionless under all “external” influences, I found other uses for the level on the OTA, etc. However, I was quite impressed in its use as an expensive, more precise, and accurate bubble level. So, I don’t use it regularly, per your comments, but it is nice to have it in my kit, if I ever require a “huge, accurate, easy to use” bubble level, that is temperature independent, doesn’t stick,  and doesn’t even require batteries.
 
Joe Z.
 


Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

Greg Salyer
 

I also see no value to using such a high precision level for this purpose. I use very cheap 1" plastic levels attached to my scope when I need to initialize my mount and camera during the day followed by a plate solve early at night. But I wonder if high precision levels would be of value in setting up a pier?  

Greg


Re: APCC in Admin Mode?

Ray Gralak
 

Thanks Ray. Is there a need to create an additional port?
No, it is done automatically.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 11:54 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] APCC in Admin Mode?



Thanks Ray. Is there a need to create an additional port?


Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 21, 2019, at 11:43 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@gralak.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:





Wayne, it is okay for the second driver instance. APCC's virtual ports are allocated to handle the two
instances.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 11:17 AM
> To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [ap-gto] APCC in Admin Mode?
>
>
>
> I’m running an imaging automation program called Voyager. It integrates with and manages other
software like
> The Sky X, MaximDL, PHD2 etc to accomplish its functions. To do this, it must run in Admin mode. Per
> recommendations here, APCC is not run in admin mode. The result is that Viyager opens a second
instance of
> the AP ASCOM driver. I haven’t used it enough to know if this will cause a problem, so looking for advice
from
> Ray or others as to how to address it. Is it a problem to run APCC in Admin mode?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
>




Re: APCC in Admin Mode?

Wayne Hixson
 

Thanks Ray. Is there a need to create an additional port?


On Apr 21, 2019, at 11:43 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

 

Wayne, it is okay for the second driver instance. APCC's virtual ports are allocated to handle the two instances.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 11:17 AM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: [ap-gto] APCC in Admin Mode?
>
>
>
> I’m running an imaging automation program called Voyager. It integrates with and manages other software like
> The Sky X, MaximDL, PHD2 etc to accomplish its functions. To do this, it must run in Admin mode. Per
> recommendations here, APCC is not run in admin mode. The result is that Viyager opens a second instance of
> the AP ASCOM driver. I haven’t used it enough to know if this will cause a problem, so looking for advice from
> Ray or others as to how to address it. Is it a problem to run APCC in Admin mode?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wayne
>
>


Re: ... and daytime polar alignment

Tyrel Smith
 

I guess I just don’t understand the need for a level, and especially the need for a level each time you tear down/set up, when some very simple indices on the mount make life so simple. Placing a flat-bottomed level on a round counterweight shaft is not that accurate. One with a v-bottom or groove of some sort, mabye more so. I’m more intrigued by this need for an extreme level of accuracy setting up your park position with a level, when all that effort is seemingly nullified when you do your first goto and recal (of if you are imaging, your first plate solve/sync). If you do a goto and recal, then send the mount to your preferred park position, it should then be in the most accurate representation of that park position, regardless of how well you leveled the counterweight shaft when you set up your preferred park position. My understanding is that the only thing accomplished by a precise predetermination of your park position is the accuracy of the very first goto command. Do I have a misunderstanding of how the mount behaves. I’d like to be corrected if that is the case. I could have some previous mount logic creeping in.

Having some indices on your axis has the benefit of being able to unlock the clutches and then being able to relatively accurately (the width of a pencil mark) put the mount back in the park position without a trip to the toolbox.

Seriously, I have never once put a level on my Mach1 counterweight shaft. I did one platesolve/sync, sent the mount to park 3, put a piece of tape across the two axis with a pen mark, cut the tape with a razor, and moved on. At the end of my imaging sessions when I send the mount back to park 3 it lines the pen lines up every time. I either unpark from last position, or line up the marks and unpark from park 3. If I am missing something, someone please let me know. I’m always looking for ways to improve my setup. If using the level is zen/ritualistic thing for some folks, thats ok by me. There is no judgement in this dojo! 



On Apr 21, 2019, at 13:16, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:


Mike,
 
    Have a look at my DYI Bubble Level in this group’s FILES section – Because the bubble’s travel is a “foot long”, it is far more precise than my STARRETT.  The “pipette” is already marked out with fine millimetre divisions by design, since it is already precisely marked for measuring “millilitres” in the lab. That’s “lab accuracy” as good as for a machinist’s use.
 
    It also cost me about $2 (for a used pipette – they are disposable, easier to find), compared to a Starrett costing over a hundred (?) dollars, and is far easier to read a large bubble on a long path. Because it has so much more fluid, the bubble starts to travel at just a hare’s breath of a tilt, compared to the smaller tube in a machinist’s level. Besides, the pipette is Plexiglas, or tempered glass, (lab use safety concern), so it won’t break when dropped or banged in travel,  as my old STARRETT glass tube did.
 
    you can fill the pipette bubble level with turpentine, radiator cold weather antifreeze, or with (coloured) winter windshield wiper fluid, for outdoor cold temperature use. You can even add an LED lighting to the tube top or ends for easier night use.
 
    See PDF article  and photos:   DIY BUBBLE LEVEL TOOL.pdf  ( ASTROJAZ - Jan 31, 2016)
 
Joe Z.



Re: APCC in Admin Mode?

Ray Gralak
 

Wayne, it is okay for the second driver instance. APCC's virtual ports are allocated to handle the two instances.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 11:17 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] APCC in Admin Mode?



I’m running an imaging automation program called Voyager. It integrates with and manages other software like
The Sky X, MaximDL, PHD2 etc to accomplish its functions. To do this, it must run in Admin mode. Per
recommendations here, APCC is not run in admin mode. The result is that Viyager opens a second instance of
the AP ASCOM driver. I haven’t used it enough to know if this will cause a problem, so looking for advice from
Ray or others as to how to address it. Is it a problem to run APCC in Admin mode?

Thanks,

Wayne

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