Date   

Power Out at AP

Karen Christen
 

Hello friends. We lost power here at AP at 10:50am CDT. Our phones are not working. We have no information at present regarding cause or expected length of outage. We appreciate your patience.
Karen Christen


Re: External wiring method for your imaging equipment

Roland Christen
 


Looks very neat and a great example of tidy cabling. But I'm wondering whether you use an electric focuser and dew heaters as well. If so, how do you cable them neatly?
Just bunch them all together and hang just one cable down.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: cytan299@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 10:29 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: External wiring method for your imaging equipment



Hi Rolando,
   Looks very neat and a great example of tidy cabling. But I'm wondering whether you use an electric focuser and dew heaters as well. If so, how do you cable them neatly?

cytan



Re: External wiring method for your imaging equipment

Roland Christen
 


But can you please add a photo, with the mount at Park-4, and the OTA pointing at the south horizon.
I left plenty of room in the cable so Park4 is not a problem. The key is to put the axes into their most extreme position and let out enough wiring for that. I doubt that I have more than 4 ft of cable overall between the upper point and the lowest point on the pier.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 9:26 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] External wiring method for your imaging equipment



Looks really good, Rolando.
 
    But can you please add a photo, with the mount at Park-4, and the OTA pointing at the south horizon.
That’s where my OTA and limited 12-foot cable reaches worst case stretch, with my harness attached to the RC-14 OTA back end.
I thought I had plenty of cable, but it comes close to being a bad situation.
 
    But I like your saddle bolt cinch point, next best thing to a through the mount feature – Can’t wait to try it, as soon as winter finally clears up.
 
Joe Z.
 



Re: Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?

PeterN
 

Hello Peter

I have a Planewave 12.5 (2500mm fl), and a AP1600AE.
With a model in APCC Pro I have done 20 min exposures unguided with round stars.

Peter


Re: New file uploaded to ap-gto

Mike Dodd
 

On 4/15/2019 10:35 PM, Walt Cooney waltc111@att.net [ap-gto] wrote:
Any tips on the best way to route cables if there is a rotator in the
mix too?
I make a large loop from the top of the bundle to the camera that's mounted on a Pyxis rotator. My ZWO camera has a USB 3.0 connector plus a power plug for the sensor cooler. I use viscous Goop adhesive to secure both these connectors to the camera body so they can't come loose. The Goop can be peeled off if I need to remove the connectors.

Bottom line: a large loop plus secured connectors. I have no problems with this arrangement.

--
Mike

Mike Dodd
http://astronomy.mdodd.com
Louisa County, Virginia USA


Re: New file uploaded to ap-gto

Marcelo Figueroa
 

It would be nice if you put some cable straps (something similar to the last CP4) to the mount structure 


Re: Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?

Bill Long
 

If you get a night, I will be happy to join a chat and TV session with you to help you through it, if I get a night clear soon I will send you a note and you can come chat and watch me run one. 

Happy to help 🙂 


From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of pnagy@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 4:11 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?
 
 

Thanks Bill. I have no idea when the next clear sky will happen. I have not imaged for six months due to bad weather. I always miss galaxy season and galaxies are my favorite type of DSOs. 


I will download the APCC-Pro manual and go from there.

Peter


---In ap-gto@..., <bill@...> wrote :

Hi Peter,

I can show you how to build a model easily. 


From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of pnagy@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 2:10 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?
 
 

Hi Wayne,


No hijack. I am interested in reading about this.


My biggest issue is I seem to image on the average of every 3 to 6 months and I hope the learning curve for APCC-Pro is not steep. All I want to use APCC-Pro is building pointing models and enable dual-axes tracking for unguided imaging. I am using SGPro. So from about 250 pages of APCC-Pro operating manual, which portions of the operating manual I need to read to learn how to operate in shortest possible time?

Thanks,
Peter


---In ap-gto@..., <wayneh9026@...> wrote :

Hi Bill, not to hijack the thread, but do you use Sky X Camera Add-On for your imaging? The reason I ask is I recently bought it because Richard Wright is adding a native driver for the FLI Kepler line that will handle the dual high-low gain image stream, which my current tools, SGP and MaximDL, do not. Just wondering if you have any thoughts to share. I think you have my email wayneh9026 (at) yahoo (dot) com to take it offline.

Wayne


Re: New file uploaded to ap-gto

Walt Cooney
 

Any tips on the best way to route cables if there is a rotator in the mix too?

Clearest skies,
Walt

On 4/15/2019 8:18 PM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] wrote:
Thanks,
It's easy to take down after an imaging session by just looping it over the screw head, removing the camera and wire bundle all in one bunch and placing the camera in my soft bag.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: George Lutch glutch@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 8:11 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
That is so neat how you looped it around the dovetail screw to keep it out of the way.
George C. Lutch
On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 5:29 PM <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
__
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ap-gto
group.
File : /Mach2 External Wiring Method/DSC08536.JPG
Uploaded by : uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com <mailto:chris1011@aol.com>>
Description : Mach2 mount with 130GTX ready for imaging
You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/files/Mach2%20External%20Wiring%20Method/DSC08536.JPG
To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo..com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398
<https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398>
Regards,
uncarollo2 <chris1011@aol.com <mailto:chris1011@aol.com>>


Re: External wiring method for your imaging equipment

Cheng-Yang Tan
 

Hi Rolando,
   Looks very neat and a great example of tidy cabling. But I'm wondering whether you use an electric focuser and dew heaters as well. If so, how do you cable them neatly?

cytan


Re: The CN Encoder Debate Continues...

Bill Long
 

This is likely going to get deleted, but I at least had the opportunity to talk about economics, which I always enjoy. 🙂

chadrian84, on 15 Apr 2019 - 4:16 PM, said:

I'm hardly a "greed-fretting anti-capitalist" or someone who "sits around for product announcements suspicious of a secret evil."  I've been fortunate to make a good living taking risks and selling items at (often very large) mark-ups.  AP should charge as much as the market will bear (as all companies do).

 

Your claim seems to be that AP willingly sacrifices profit for the benefit of the astro community.   Yes, they sometimes sell products below market value, but I'm not so naive to think it's not part of the business strategy.  They do limited releases which sell below market, but they make up the difference (and more) by getting an enormous amount of marketing, perceived demand, and goodwill in return.

 

Regarding why I'm interested in encoder prices: A good consumer should question the price of things and always put downward pricing pressure on manufacturers (in an honest way) - for strange reasons, the M.O. of some consumers here is to do the opposite - praise, praise, praise, and never question.  If it comes to light that AP has a 400% markup on each encoder sold, they may be pressured to lower their prices, or a competitor may come along and sell it cheaper.  Both cases benefit us.  If AP goes out of business, it will be due to another company producing a better product for a better price; not because they didn't get the markup they wanted on their encoders.

 

I fully agree that AP provides exceptional products and service (though I haven't yet personally experienced the latter) - these things are built into their pricing.  I own two AP1100s and live a short distance away from Rockford.  I have great respect for Roland, his reputation, and the company he built.  However, I'm not a shareholder or employee, so I have zero allegiance to them and neither should anyone else.

A few things about your comments:

 

1. Selling products below market value, is not a business strategy in a capitalistic free market society. At all. Ever.  So the comment you made, that I highlighted in red, is completely wrong and if you want to know why (which is off topic to this thread) I suggest you study economics.

2. "Perceived demand" is a misnomer (highlighted in blue). There is no such thing as "Perceived Demand" at all. I would love to see you explain this about a businesses with 10 year waiting lists for the products they produce. I think what you actually meant to say, is "Perceived Value". That is real, and worthy of a discussion on another thread.  Goodwill, on the other hand, has economic value and is the reason I think you meant "Perceived Value" over "Perceived Demand". There is no doubting the demand for AP products. At all. If you think that is the case, you are not paying attention or are not plugged into their community of consumers.

3. Consumers can put downward pressure on products (purple in this case; two different points you made, equally as incorrect), but not by questioning producer surplus levels. If Audi sells you a car with a $5000 sound system in it, that actually cost them $250, do you really think you are going to change that by publicizing that fact? No, you arent, no matter how honey and sugar you want to be about it -- nothing will change. If you want to put downward pressure on it, you use the lever of capitalism you have -- your wallet. Further if you assume you can change the elasticity of demand based on posting things from Renishaw's website on the internet, you are equally as naive as you claimed here.

4. (Orange this time) You are finally coming to terms with your own statements you made. See 1, 2, and 3 above for why you came to this realization. You contradicted yourself here, and hopefully I have shown you why.

5. (Salmon this time) You are completely wrong here. Did Roland's pricing strategy make it so when I personally asked him to review the quality report from my RCOS system (which he did and provided extensive feedback and opinion on) he felt compelled to do it for his profit margin? The answer to that is a resounding NO and I think you need to get off of the soap box here. 

 

Getting back on the topic of the Mach2 I would love to hear your thoughts on where Astro-Physics is sourcing the CNC machines, the raw materials they used to make the Mach2 mount, and further I would love to know your perspective of their providers cost of FPL53, FCD100 and other glass they have used to produce telescopes over the years. I am sure you must have an opinion on this matter, especially as it relates to the Mach2, as you just spent time of your own trying to rationalize the economics of the encoders in the Mach2, so surely you have something to offer on this point. 




From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 5:09 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] The CN Encoder Debate Continues...
 
 

I had a chuckle reading that thread. Case of blind leading the blind. That fellow really should price out Renishaw Absolute encoders (there is only one type for a ring encoder), he'll get a shock ;^))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long bill@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 6:19 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] The CN Encoder Debate Continues...



With a post like this:


For those that dont want to click, here is what was purported:

"
From what I can tell, an absolute encoder is just a sensor that scans a code in order to determine position (and therefore rate and direction).  There's not any ultra precise machining required.  For each track of lines/barcodes the encoder precision doubles.  The encoders AP uses apparently have 26 tracks (2^26 = 67.1 million positions).
 
It would be interesting to know what AP pays for the encoders.  If you knew or could determine the specs of the encoders used by AP, you could plug them in here and request a quote.



Re: External wiring method for your imaging equipment

Joe Zeglinski
 

Looks really good, Rolando.
 
    But can you please add a photo, with the mount at Park-4, and the OTA pointing at the south horizon.
That’s where my OTA and limited 12-foot cable reaches worst case stretch, with my harness attached to the RC-14 OTA back end.
I thought I had plenty of cable, but it comes close to being a bad situation.
 
    But I like your saddle bolt cinch point, next best thing to a through the mount feature – Can’t wait to try it, as soon as winter finally clears up.
 
Joe Z.
 


Re: New file uploaded to ap-gto

Roland Christen
 

Thanks,
It's easy to take down after an imaging session by just looping it over the screw head, removing the camera and wire bundle all in one bunch and placing the camera in my soft bag.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: George Lutch glutch@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 8:11 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto



That is so neat how you looped it around the dovetail screw to keep it out of the way. 
George C. Lutch



On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 5:29 PM <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 
Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ap-gto
group.

File : /Mach2 External Wiring Method/DSC08536.JPG
Uploaded by : uncarollo2 <chris1011@...>
Description : Mach2 mount with 130GTX ready for imaging

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/files/Mach2%20External%20Wiring%20Method/DSC08536.JPG

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo..com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

Regards,

uncarollo2 <chris1011@...>



Question about Mach2 tracking

Roland Christen
 

Question was:

"I'd be interested to know if the Mach2GTO is supporting dual axis tracking and real time pressure and temperature inputs for atmospheric refraction compensation"

The answer is yes, the Mach2 supports dual axis tracking (as do all of our other mounts, always have). It will change the tracking rate in either axis to any value that external software sets. I have set it to +- 1/10 arc sec per hour and watched as the Dec axis happily advanced at that rate from the zero setting. In fact with the right CAD software I can control the axes to where i can write my name in the stars in a short time exposure, or make perfect circle O's or little hearts.

As far as atmospheric refraction, we have APCC Pro which handles that and modeling and lots of other stuff, so you can do unguided imaging. When we were at NEAF last week we showed an unguided image that we had taken the night before at our remote observatory over a period of 4 hours, subs of 10 and 15 minutes in H-a. All taken with APCC Pro and a full sky model. Perfectly round stars, and no-one there to touch the equipment.

So yes, all our mounts have always had dual axis tracking, even our non-encoder mounts.

Rolando


Re: External wiring method for your imaging equipment

steven ho
 

That's very helpful, thanks Roland.


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of chris1011@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Monday, April 15, 2019 5:22 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] External wiring method for your imaging equipment
 
 

Hello Astronuts,

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/files/Mach2%20External%20Wiring%20Method/

I uploaded a number of images in the following folder which shows my preferred method of wiring astro-gear to the mount. This type of external loop is very flexible in that you can add as many cables as you need for cameras, dew heaters and other stuff that you need to power on top of your mount. It is the only method approved by new Mexico Skies, since they don't want to deal with internal cable problems that inevitably arise.

Go to the above folder to see the various images I posted. If you have any questions, please ask.

The way I attach my cables prevents any possibility of snags, even when I start my scopes under the mount with counterweights up. I can slew to any position in the sky without ever having cables catch on anything. Some people attach a separate bar to the cradle plate which guides the cable back away from the mount. That works very well. What you don't want to do is just let the cable drop straight down from the back of the camera.

The bottom of the cable is attached to the pier via a 1/4-20 bolt using plastic cable tie. I wrapped mine in a plastic wire sleeve, which you can get at Graingers in any length.

Rolando


Re: Mach2 mount - answers to questions

Roland Christen
 

I'm sure it's a great car.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: esarmen@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 6:45 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Mach2 mount - answers to questions



OK,

From personal experience with my model3, get the Tesla you will love driving it! Sorry for the shameless plug. Use my referral code https://ts.la/stephen53463, you and I will get 1000 miles free supercharging.

-Steve



Re: The CN Encoder Debate Continues...

Roland Christen
 

I had a chuckle reading that thread. Case of blind leading the blind. That fellow really should price out Renishaw Absolute encoders (there is only one type for a ring encoder), he'll get a shock ;^))

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long bill@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Mon, Apr 15, 2019 6:19 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] The CN Encoder Debate Continues...



With a post like this:


For those that dont want to click, here is what was purported:

"
From what I can tell, an absolute encoder is just a sensor that scans a code in order to determine position (and therefore rate and direction).  There's not any ultra precise machining required.  For each track of lines/barcodes the encoder precision doubles.  The encoders AP uses apparently have 26 tracks (2^26 = 67.1 million positions).
 
It would be interesting to know what AP pays for the encoders.  If you knew or could determine the specs of the encoders used by AP, you could plug them in here and request a quote.



Re: New file uploaded to ap-gto

George Lutch
 

That is so neat how you looped it around the dovetail screw to keep it out of the way. 
George C. Lutch



On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 5:29 PM <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ap-gto
group.

File : /Mach2 External Wiring Method/DSC08536.JPG
Uploaded by : uncarollo2 <chris1011@...>
Description : Mach2 mount with 130GTX ready for imaging

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/files/Mach2%20External%20Wiring%20Method/DSC08536.JPG

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

Regards,

uncarollo2 <chris1011@...>


Re: Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?

topboxman
 

Thanks Bill. I have no idea when the next clear sky will happen. I have not imaged for six months due to bad weather. I always miss galaxy season and galaxies are my favorite type of DSOs. 

I will download the APCC-Pro manual and go from there.

Peter


---In ap-gto@..., <bill@...> wrote :

Hi Peter,

I can show you how to build a model easily. 


From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of pnagy@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 2:10 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?
 
 

Hi Wayne,


No hijack. I am interested in reading about this.


My biggest issue is I seem to image on the average of every 3 to 6 months and I hope the learning curve for APCC-Pro is not steep. All I want to use APCC-Pro is building pointing models and enable dual-axes tracking for unguided imaging. I am using SGPro. So from about 250 pages of APCC-Pro operating manual, which portions of the operating manual I need to read to learn how to operate in shortest possible time?

Thanks,
Peter


---In ap-gto@..., <wayneh9026@...> wrote :

Hi Bill, not to hijack the thread, but do you use Sky X Camera Add-On for your imaging? The reason I ask is I recently bought it because Richard Wright is adding a native driver for the FLI Kepler line that will handle the dual high-low gain image stream, which my current tools, SGP and MaximDL, do not. Just wondering if you have any thoughts to share. I think you have my email wayneh9026 (at) yahoo (dot) com to take it offline.

Wayne


Re: Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?

Bill Long
 

Hi Peter,

I can show you how to build a model easily. 


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of pnagy@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2019 2:10 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?
 
 

Hi Wayne,


No hijack. I am interested in reading about this.


My biggest issue is I seem to image on the average of every 3 to 6 months and I hope the learning curve for APCC-Pro is not steep. All I want to use APCC-Pro is building pointing models and enable dual-axes tracking for unguided imaging. I am using SGPro. So from about 250 pages of APCC-Pro operating manual, which portions of the operating manual I need to read to learn how to operate in shortest possible time?

Thanks,
Peter


---In ap-gto@..., wrote :

Hi Bill, not to hijack the thread, but do you use Sky X Camera Add-On for your imaging? The reason I ask is I recently bought it because Richard Wright is adding a native driver for the FLI Kepler line that will handle the dual high-low gain image stream, which my current tools, SGP and MaximDL, do not. Just wondering if you have any thoughts to share. I think you have my email wayneh9026 (at) yahoo (dot) com to take it offline.

Wayne


Re: Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?

Tony Benjamin <tonybenjamin@...>
 

Would if be onerous for AP to maybe make some videos on this :()

 

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: April 14, 2019 2:10 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Minimum # of data points for APCC-Pro for unguided imaging?

 

 

Hi Wayne,

 

No hijack. I am interested in reading about this.

 

 

My biggest issue is I seem to image on the average of every 3 to 6 months and I hope the learning curve for APCC-Pro is not steep. All I want to use APCC-Pro is building pointing models and enable dual-axes tracking for unguided imaging. I am using SGPro. So from about 250 pages of APCC-Pro operating manual, which portions of the operating manual I need to read to learn how to operate in shortest possible time?

 

Thanks,

Peter



---In ap-gto@..., <wayneh9026@...> wrote :

Hi Bill, not to hijack the thread, but do you use Sky X Camera Add-On for your imaging? The reason I ask is I recently bought it because Richard Wright is adding a native driver for the FLI Kepler line that will handle the dual high-low gain image stream, which my current tools, SGP and MaximDL, do not. Just wondering if you have any thoughts to share. I think you have my email wayneh9026 (at) yahoo (dot) com to take it offline.

Wayne

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