Date   

Re: APCC and Master/slave computers

DFisch
 

Joe I’m keeping this for posterity

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 15:24 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

Hi again ... Chris
 
    I awoke today and just realized I left out a few important points in my TEAMVIEWER advice on your  posted subject (Nov. 30).
 
    First, I forgot to say that to guarantee a solid WiFi connection to the backyard scope (APCC) computer you MUST use its Dot-format “IP-address” (e.g. 192.168.1.xxx) rather than the TeamViewer’s Server,  space separated 9-digit number, which is usually shown at the left half at launch,  as “YOUR I.D.” (at the remote PC’s screen). Using the install-time configured TeamViewer 9-digit server address, would still travel via a circuitous off-site link to the backyard.
 
    If you don’t know your backyard PC’s WiFi “IPv4 address” (e.g. by running Command Prompt – “IPconfig”), you can also see it in TV’s login pop-up ... if you (temporarily) change the “Incoming LAN Connections”  settings box to “Accept EXCLUSIVELY)” and restart TV. Then, having written down that address for ALL future backyard local WiFi network connections, you can reset TV back to ACCEPT mode, in order to maintain the option to login to your scope system from a far more remote location. Sometimes you may want to do some scope PC,  Win-10 maintenance from the office, or show a friend a few scope PC hard drive stored CCD images. So it is useful to have the cross-country LAN connection option, even if rarely needed by backyard operation astronomers.
 
    However, if you want total lockout security from possible hackers, you could keep the “connect EXCLUSIVELY” mode setting, but with loss of the option of login from an off-site PC. As long as you always launch TeamViewer using “ONLY the IP-form of address”, (rather than the 9-digit format),  you will avoid the cross-continent hook up through TeamViewer’s office worldwide LAN server chain.
    So, ALWAYS use the IP login for best, most reliable backyard connection.
 
*******
 
    Secondly, to get MUCH faster, WiFi connection to the backyard APCC controlled scope, add-on a ...  USB type WiFi Stick Adapter antenna, such as I use – “ASUS-56”. There are other similar brands of this kind of adapter (e.g. from Trend Micro, D-Link, etc. – wouldn’t trust anything, using Huawei communications products, based on recent news disclosures).
 
    I place one adapter antenna (plugged onto its stand), on the table beside the kitchen PC, and the other standing behind the backyard scope laptop screen. My ASUS WiFi standard 2.4 GHZ channel communication suddenly jumps to a gratifying 300 mbps from the laptop’s cheap internal WiFi adapter standard chip  speed of about 65 to 85 mbps. Well worth the ~$50 (each).
 
    The other advantage of using the “extra” WiFi adapter, is that initially TV uses both product’s channels in parallel on the “same named” network, so if one (e.g. PC internal) signal reception drops, the other immediately picks up the data stream. Eventually, Win-10 or maybe it is TV, switches to the “faster IP link” of the two. My ASUS adapter launch app doesn’t always “auto-start” on PC boot – (or more often I forget to launch the ASUS WiFi app myself during scope session setup), so I launch TV via the standard laptop’s internal adapter Win-10 Network Connect icon, and once logged in,  launch the remote ASUS WiFi connection  app to activate the remote ASUS antenna. Then both WiFi and WiFi-2 each have a connection to the SAME local Wifi network name, via two different WiFi adapters – both are secure and both are local. Eventually, the faster local WiFi will take over. If I initially remember to launch the remote PC’s  ASUS adapter app at boot-up time, then I avoid the latter and just use the faster ASUS IP-address as the TV initial connection from the kitchen.
 
    Finally – about the TeamViewer Password.
    It is a hassle to note the ever changing, current TV secure “password of the day” at the backyard scope, every time you login via TeamViewer. However, you can use EXTRAS->OPTIONS->SECURITY ... and create a permanent key ... “Personal Password (for unattended access)”. Then, this won’t change after every TV logout. You can also add similar extra keys there using ... (Manage additional passwords) ... for one (or more) friends to join you concurrently on your night’s scope session, or AP tech support to use simultaneously with your own scope connection during problem debug, assuming AP has installed TeamViewer as well ( ... and they do).
 
    Hope this added info helps to “really optimize” your remote backyard TeamViewer connection. That’s really the best way to fly the AP mount through the night’s skies :-)
 
Joe Z.


Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

topboxman
 

Hi Rolando,

Your explanation is much better than mine.

The only drawback about spinning the spur gears with hand controller or third party software while mount is powered up is you may not be able to "feel" the tightness or looseness of the gears to see if the gears need remeshing unless you know a way. I have seen your instructions in your manuals about marking the spur gears with a pen so that you can return the spur gears to original location without affecting PEC if you rotate the spur gears by hand and the mount is powered off.

Thanks,
Peter


---In ap-gto@..., <chris1011@...> wrote :

Rotating the gears manually will lose the registration of the PE curve with respect to the gears. You can rotate them all you want with the drive buttons (on the keypad or other software/hardware). You just can't rotate the spur gears with the power off or when the mount is parked and the motors are not powered up.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: pnagy@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 7, 2018 3:34 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: To PEC or not to PEC..



Correct me if I'm wrong.

In addition to Rolando's excellent comments, I would suggest to never manually rotate the spur gears inside the gearbox cover because it will lose PEC unless you know exactly where to rotate the spur gears back to original spot. I think many people don't realize this.

Peter


---In ap-gto@..., <chris1011@...> wrote :

..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)

Hi Astronuts,

We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!

When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is there in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.

On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.

You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.

Rolando



Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Roland Christen
 

Rotating the gears manually will lose the registration of the PE curve with respect to the gears. You can rotate them all you want with the drive buttons (on the keypad or other software/hardware). You just can't rotate the spur gears with the power off or when the mount is parked and the motors are not powered up.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: pnagy@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Dec 7, 2018 3:34 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: To PEC or not to PEC..



Correct me if I'm wrong.

In addition to Rolando's excellent comments, I would suggest to never manually rotate the spur gears inside the gearbox cover because it will lose PEC unless you know exactly where to rotate the spur gears back to original spot. I think many people don't realize this.

Peter


---In ap-gto@..., wrote :

..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)

Hi Astronuts,

We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!

When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is there in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.

On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.

You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.

Rolando



Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Roland Christen
 


I'm under the impression that's not possible in my particular case?
No you cannot in that case. Just make a new one.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Dec 7, 2018 2:37 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] To PEC or not to PEC..



> On Dec 7, 2018, at 2:35 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> All the data from these curves are stored here for future reference in case there are any questions about performance of a particular mount. If someone has a situation where they would like to restore their factory curve, we can download it in their CP4 over the internet.
>
> Rolando

With the exception for curves from CP3 boxes with Q or earlier chips, right?

I updated my CP3 from rev. O to V2, and I think my original PEC is unrecoverable due to chip changes after Q? If it *is* possible, I'd like to restore my original PEC to my V2-chipped CP3, but I'm under the impression that's not possible in my particular case?


/dale

------------------------------------
Posted by: Dale Ghent <daleg@...>
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Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

topboxman
 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

In addition to Rolando's excellent comments, I would suggest to never manually rotate the spur gears inside the gearbox cover because it will lose PEC unless you know exactly where to rotate the spur gears back to original spot. I think many people don't realize this.

Peter


---In ap-gto@..., <chris1011@...> wrote :

..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)

Hi Astronuts,

We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!

When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is there in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.

On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.

You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.

Rolando


Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Stuart
 

Okay - good to know. Thanks Rolando. I will put loading a new PEC curve on my list of "things to do". 

Stuart

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 at 15:35, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

We ask for the serial number for our records. No, we did not load the CP3 curve into your CP4. The CP4 has a different memory with more data points, so the curves are not really compatible.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Heggie stuart.j.heggie@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 7, 2018 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] To PEC or not to PEC..



Very interesting. Thanks Rolando!

Possibly a dumb question but when I upgraded my AP900GTO to CP4, it seemed important to know the serial # of my mount. I assumed it was to load my original PEC curve from your shop into my CP4. The mount tracked superbly before and still does. Is that just a reflection of overall quality or did your team indeed load my original PEC curve into my CP4?

Stuart

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 at 13:58, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com> wrote:
 
..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)

Hi Astronuts,

We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!

When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is there in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.

On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.

You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.

Rolando


--





Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Joe Zeglinski
 

 
    You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.

Rolando
************
BRAVO, maestro Dave !
 
    Thanks for getting the AP mount’s  geared-orchestra in-tune, playing the same opus, right from the mount’s carton “grand opening”.
 
Joe Z.

 


Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Roland Christen
 

Please contact Howard at our Tech support and he can install it into your mount.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Rémy Chirié remy.chirie@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Dec 7, 2018 2:28 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] To PEC or not to PEC..



Hello Rolando,

are able to send me PE curve of my AP1100-AE mount n°11003 ?

Thank you.

Rémy
Le 7 déc. 2018 à 20:35, chris1011@... [ap-gto] a écrit :

 

We create the encoder curve using proprietary PEMPro software and a precision reference motion that is accurate to +- 1/10 arc sec. The mount's movement is compared to that precision reference and the deviation is recorded and used to create a PE curve. This is just like using the precise motion of the Earth's rotation that you measure using a distant star when you do a PEMPro run on the night sky.

We run 5 worm cycles to create the PE curve. We check to make sure all 5 cycles lie on top of each other, which is an indication that all the gearbox components are doing the right thing. The curve is created and downloaded and we do another 3 cycle run with PE turned on to verify that the compensation curve is correct. All the data from these curves are stored here for future reference in case there are any questions about performance of a particular mount. If someone has a situation where they would like to restore their factory curve, we can download it in their CP4 over the internet.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 7, 2018 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] To PEC or not to PEC..


Question, Roland - how /do/ you create the factory curves? Do you haul each mount out to the observatory and wait for a suitably clear and stable night, or do you have a (literally) in-house test bench made for doing this with repeatable precision at any time?

/dale

> On Dec 7, 2018, at 1:48 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> ..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)
>
> Hi Astronuts,
>
> We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!
>
> When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is ther e in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.
>
> On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances.. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.
>
> You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.
>
> Rolando

>
>
>



------------------------------------
Posted by: Dale Ghent <daleg@...>
------------------------------------

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Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Roland Christen
 

We ask for the serial number for our records. No, we did not load the CP3 curve into your CP4. The CP4 has a different memory with more data points, so the curves are not really compatible.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Heggie stuart.j.heggie@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Dec 7, 2018 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] To PEC or not to PEC..



Very interesting. Thanks Rolando!

Possibly a dumb question but when I upgraded my AP900GTO to CP4, it seemed important to know the serial # of my mount. I assumed it was to load my original PEC curve from your shop into my CP4. The mount tracked superbly before and still does. Is that just a reflection of overall quality or did your team indeed load my original PEC curve into my CP4?

Stuart

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 at 13:58, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com> wrote:
 
..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)

Hi Astronuts,

We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!

When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is there in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.

On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.

You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.

Rolando


--



Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Dale Ghent
 

On Dec 7, 2018, at 2:35 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:



All the data from these curves are stored here for future reference in case there are any questions about performance of a particular mount. If someone has a situation where they would like to restore their factory curve, we can download it in their CP4 over the internet.

Rolando
With the exception for curves from CP3 boxes with Q or earlier chips, right?

I updated my CP3 from rev. O to V2, and I think my original PEC is unrecoverable due to chip changes after Q? If it *is* possible, I'd like to restore my original PEC to my V2-chipped CP3, but I'm under the impression that's not possible in my particular case?

/dale


Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Chiri� R�my
 

Hello Rolando,

are able to send me PE curve of my AP1100-AE mount n°11003 ?

Thank you.

Rémy

Le 7 déc. 2018 à 20:35, chris1011@... [ap-gto] a écrit :

 

We create the encoder curve using proprietary PEMPro software and a precision reference motion that is accurate to +- 1/10 arc sec. The mount's movement is compared to that precision reference and the deviation is recorded and used to create a PE curve. This is just like using the precise motion of the Earth's rotation that you measure using a distant star when you do a PEMPro run on the night sky.

We run 5 worm cycles to create the PE curve. We check to make sure all 5 cycles lie on top of each other, which is an indication that all the gearbox components are doing the right thing. The curve is created and downloaded and we do another 3 cycle run with PE turned on to verify that the compensation curve is correct. All the data from these curves are stored here for future reference in case there are any questions about performance of a particular mount. If someone has a situation where they would like to restore their factory curve, we can download it in their CP4 over the internet.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 7, 2018 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] To PEC or not to PEC..


Question, Roland - how /do/ you create the factory curves? Do you haul each mount out to the observatory and wait for a suitably clear and stable night, or do you have a (literally) in-house test bench made for doing this with repeatable precision at any time?

/dale

> On Dec 7, 2018, at 1:48 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> ..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)
>
> Hi Astronuts,
>
> We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!
>
> When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is ther e in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.
>
> On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.
>
> You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.
>
> Rolando

>
>
>



------------------------------------
Posted by: Dale Ghent <daleg@...>
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Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Stuart
 

Very interesting. Thanks Rolando!

Possibly a dumb question but when I upgraded my AP900GTO to CP4, it seemed important to know the serial # of my mount. I assumed it was to load my original PEC curve from your shop into my CP4. The mount tracked superbly before and still does. Is that just a reflection of overall quality or did your team indeed load my original PEC curve into my CP4?

Stuart

On Fri, 7 Dec 2018 at 13:58, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)

Hi Astronuts,

We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!

When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is there in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.

On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.

You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.

Rolando




Re: APCC and Master/slave computers

Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi again ... Chris
 
    I awoke today and just realized I left out a few important points in my TEAMVIEWER advice on your  posted subject (Nov. 30).
 
    First, I forgot to say that to guarantee a solid WiFi connection to the backyard scope (APCC) computer you MUST use its Dot-format “IP-address” (e.g. 192.168.1.xxx) rather than the TeamViewer’s Server,  space separated 9-digit number, which is usually shown at the left half at launch,  as “YOUR I.D.” (at the remote PC’s screen). Using the install-time configured TeamViewer 9-digit server address, would still travel via a circuitous off-site link to the backyard.
 
    If you don’t know your backyard PC’s WiFi “IPv4 address” (e.g. by running Command Prompt – “IPconfig”), you can also see it in TV’s login pop-up ... if you (temporarily) change the “Incoming LAN Connections”  settings box to “Accept EXCLUSIVELY)” and restart TV. Then, having written down that address for ALL future backyard local WiFi network connections, you can reset TV back to ACCEPT mode, in order to maintain the option to login to your scope system from a far more remote location. Sometimes you may want to do some scope PC,  Win-10 maintenance from the office, or show a friend a few scope PC hard drive stored CCD images. So it is useful to have the cross-country LAN connection option, even if rarely needed by backyard operation astronomers.
 
    However, if you want total lockout security from possible hackers, you could keep the “connect EXCLUSIVELY” mode setting, but with loss of the option of login from an off-site PC. As long as you always launch TeamViewer using “ONLY the IP-form of address”, (rather than the 9-digit format),  you will avoid the cross-continent hook up through TeamViewer’s office worldwide LAN server chain.
    So, ALWAYS use the IP login for best, most reliable backyard connection.
 
*******
 
    Secondly, to get MUCH faster, WiFi connection to the backyard APCC controlled scope, add-on a ...  USB type WiFi Stick Adapter antenna, such as I use – “ASUS-56”. There are other similar brands of this kind of adapter (e.g. from Trend Micro, D-Link, etc. – wouldn’t trust anything, using Huawei communications products, based on recent news disclosures).
 
    I place one adapter antenna (plugged onto its stand), on the table beside the kitchen PC, and the other standing behind the backyard scope laptop screen. My ASUS WiFi standard 2.4 GHZ channel communication suddenly jumps to a gratifying 300 mbps from the laptop’s cheap internal WiFi adapter standard chip  speed of about 65 to 85 mbps. Well worth the ~$50 (each).
 
    The other advantage of using the “extra” WiFi adapter, is that initially TV uses both product’s channels in parallel on the “same named” network, so if one (e.g. PC internal) signal reception drops, the other immediately picks up the data stream. Eventually, Win-10 or maybe it is TV, switches to the “faster IP link” of the two. My ASUS adapter launch app doesn’t always “auto-start” on PC boot – (or more often I forget to launch the ASUS WiFi app myself during scope session setup), so I launch TV via the standard laptop’s internal adapter Win-10 Network Connect icon, and once logged in,  launch the remote ASUS WiFi connection  app to activate the remote ASUS antenna. Then both WiFi and WiFi-2 each have a connection to the SAME local Wifi network name, via two different WiFi adapters – both are secure and both are local. Eventually, the faster local WiFi will take over. If I initially remember to launch the remote PC’s  ASUS adapter app at boot-up time, then I avoid the latter and just use the faster ASUS IP-address as the TV initial connection from the kitchen.
 
    Finally – about the TeamViewer Password.
    It is a hassle to note the ever changing, current TV secure “password of the day” at the backyard scope, every time you login via TeamViewer. However, you can use EXTRAS->OPTIONS->SECURITY ... and create a permanent key ... “Personal Password (for unattended access)”. Then, this won’t change after every TV logout. You can also add similar extra keys there using ... (Manage additional passwords) ... for one (or more) friends to join you concurrently on your night’s scope session, or AP tech support to use simultaneously with your own scope connection during problem debug, assuming AP has installed TeamViewer as well ( ... and they do).
 
    Hope this added info helps to “really optimize” your remote backyard TeamViewer connection. That’s really the best way to fly the AP mount through the night’s skies :-)
 
Joe Z.


Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Roland Christen
 

We create the encoder curve using proprietary PEMPro software and a precision reference motion that is accurate to +- 1/10 arc sec. The mount's movement is compared to that precision reference and the deviation is recorded and used to create a PE curve. This is just like using the precise motion of the Earth's rotation that you measure using a distant star when you do a PEMPro run on the night sky.

We run 5 worm cycles to create the PE curve. We check to make sure all 5 cycles lie on top of each other, which is an indication that all the gearbox components are doing the right thing. The curve is created and downloaded and we do another 3 cycle run with PE turned on to verify that the compensation curve is correct. All the data from these curves are stored here for future reference in case there are any questions about performance of a particular mount. If someone has a situation where they would like to restore their factory curve, we can download it in their CP4 over the internet.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Dec 7, 2018 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] To PEC or not to PEC..


Question, Roland - how /do/ you create the factory curves? Do you haul each mount out to the observatory and wait for a suitably clear and stable night, or do you have a (literally) in-house test bench made for doing this with repeatable precision at any time?

/dale

> On Dec 7, 2018, at 1:48 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> ..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)
>
> Hi Astronuts,
>
> We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!
>
> When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is there in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.
>
> On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.
>
> You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.
>
> Rolando

>
>
>



------------------------------------
Posted by: Dale Ghent <daleg@...>
------------------------------------

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Re: To PEC or not to PEC..

Dale Ghent
 

Question, Roland - how /do/ you create the factory curves? Do you haul each mount out to the observatory and wait for a suitably clear and stable night, or do you have a (literally) in-house test bench made for doing this with repeatable precision at any time?

/dale

On Dec 7, 2018, at 1:48 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:



..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)

Hi Astronuts,

We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!

When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is there in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.

On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.

You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.

Rolando



To PEC or not to PEC..

Roland Christen
 

..that is the question (apologies to the Bard)

Hi Astronuts,

We have been shipping out 1100 mounts in the present production run, and as most of you know the mounts are tested here and loaded with a PE curve into the CP4 memory. Our mount technician, Dave, spends a considerable amount of time testing the native PE of the mount. He then creates a very accurate and smooth PE curve and loads that curve back into the mount. The resultant accuracy with PE turned on is 1 arc sec Peak to Peak or less (Rms typically comes in under 0.2 arc sec). I just saw on Crowdy Nights where one of our new customers ignored the loaded curve and created his own right off the bat, under very poor conditions to boot. The resultant PE looks worse than with PE turned off!

When we send out these mounts, a very accurate PE curve is in memory and can be turned on by the user. It is very accurate and does not need to be updated, even though we also send you a copy of PEMPro so you can create your own PE curve to replace the one already in memory. Don't be in a big hurry to create your own PE curve and load it into the CP4 memory. By all means play with the software, measure the PE with and without compensation turned on and even create your own curve and compare it to the one that's factory loaded into memory (PEMPro allows you to do that), but DON'T just overwrite what is there in memory to begin with. In fact it's a good idea to bring the factory curve up with PEMPro and save it on your laptop. That way you can always load it back into the CP4 if your own curve doesn't work out.

On top of that, if you are going to create a PE curve, make sure that you have a good night with good stability where the stars don't pulsate or move around due to upper atmosphere disturbances. Then also follow instructions so that your resultant curve is smooth, because if you load a ragged curve into memory, all those pops and sniggles will be played back faithfully and impact your tracking and guiding in negative ways.

You have been handed a fine violin that was tuned to perfection by Dave, our expert tuner. So practice that Mozart concerto with the instrument as is, before turning it into a slack key guitar.

Rolando


Re: Bright supernova SN 2018ivc in Messier 77

Terry Robison
 

Here's an updated image with a bit more data behind it.  

Flickr

Astrobin

Thanks for looking.  



Re: Bright supernova SN 2018ivc in Messier 77

Terry Robison
 

Thanks Rolando.  I took the best single 900 sec sub before and after, and blinked between to two.  I am surprised how well it came up in the end with such limited data.



Re: Bright supernova SN 2018ivc in Messier 77

Terry Robison
 

Just luck really.  Thanks for looking.


Re: Bright supernova SN 2018ivc in Messier 77

DFisch
 

Terry you are inspiring and I am so amazed and humbled by you caturing such an event. Thank for sgaring

TJF 📱

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 07:14 terry.robison@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@... wrote:
 

They may help locating the Supernova.  A short animation blinking before and after. 




Terry