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Re: Dec axis won't even budge
Joe Zeglinski
Hi Dhaval,
When my AP-900 clutch (nylon) plugs “MUSHROOMED” out
into the channel space between the axle and the head/knobs – because I didn’t
fully appreciate the warning in the manual, about the harm of tightening
the clutch plugs down hard, (even once), with a hex wrench would
cause. I bought the AP special plug extraction tool to extract the
flattened plugs. The AP screwdriver tool was a total waste of money, time and
effort – as even AP warned me about. Perhaps it might work for those you NEVER
used the hex wrench on the plugs, and were oiled regularly, rather than
locked in permanently.
But I thought it was worth a shot. The AP tool
- or your own “ground off and file shaped” screwdriver blade tip,
just “bites” into the plastic, chipping it into grain-like particles, and never
gets a foothold into the plug. Even if it would, it would require super human
strength to unscrew, since the inside portion is now much fatter than the part
still in the plug hole – so will never squeeze back to its original diameter to
come back out. Like child birth – one way out only :-)
The only option is sending the mount in, for AP to
work on it - or much quicker – dismantle the axis “head cap” by trying to crank
it off and free from the 4 plugs death grip. I tried to do that manually
after removing the 5 or 6 head screws from the axle top, then planting my feet
on the mount and risking back pain while pulling upward - it didn’t budge. I
even attached a long D-Plate to the head, “for leverage”, and tried to gradually
twist off the axle head cap with all my arm strength. It turned a bit, but just
would not twist up and off, but maybe you will be lucky, if your swollen plugs
are still gripping the shaft center more lightly than mine did.
Hopefully, the following procedure won’t be required.
If they are really stuck - the far easier way,
expecting to spend a couple or a few hours for this job - is to use
the two totally “UNDOCUMENTED PURPOSE”, 1/4-20 tapped open holes, in the
end of the head cap. These are tapped holes for two “PUSH SCREWS”.
I had to insert a “bottoming tap” since AP failed to tap the holes all the
way through, so the screws would be blocked near the end anyway.
Place the “separated” DEC or RA mount base
section in a “large but shallow cardboard box” – I used the lid from a XEROX PC
Paper carton, since the cardboard won’t let any fallen out bearing race plugs
bounce out onto the floor, and be lost. You will need to buy a KIT package, of
at least a dozen plugs, to replace the 8 clutches on both axes, and the spares
to replace any lost ones from the bearing race. More plugs might be
better, in case even the new plug diameters differ, depending which
manufacturing batch they came from, and still won’t slide in easily into the
clutch knob channel. So, test each one in the kit in each clutch hole, to find
the ones which are slim and thus loosest, so they won’t swell out in later
years. Do this BEFORE you re-assemble and bolt the axle top cap back on,
later.
********
Here’s AP-900/1200 mount axle disassembly, clutch
plug replacement job ...
Insert a couple of very long (3”-4”) hex head machine
screws, and torque each one “alternately” a few degrees at a time, with a socket
wrench. These screw tips push with tremendous force against the axle surface,
just under the cap. I would suggest filing these screw tips “round”, so their
tip slips as it pushes down, or scratches against the inside mating axle
top (invisibly, doesn’t affect anything). Eventually, the head will “walk itself
up” and away from the axle top, exposing a couple of dozen “identical” nylon
plugs, used as RA or DEC “roller bearings” around the axle. Note, there will be
ONE LESS plug cylinder in the track, so don’t think it was lost on the floor –
the obvious gap provides space between the race train plug/bearing
rollers, so they don’t rub against each other.
Final step is to force each clutch plug through the
hole, out into the now “empty center” with that head cap removed. You can try to
“screw-in” the old plug using that AP screwdriver tool, since the old originally
smooth surface plugs have now gotten the channel threads pressed permanently
into them. Mine still refused to screw in, so had to be drilled in with a
slightly smaller diameter drill bit – which grabbed into the nylon, and easily
“spun it” inward, quite quickly – as the drill bit into the plastic and grabbed
it tightly. If you must, do so with a VERY slow drill speed,. making sure to
keep it perpendicular to the surface, drilling straight into the old plug. If it
still doesn’t budge by spinning, you will end up drilling a hole through,
into the nylon, which you can then carefully chip its wall out, at one point,
and the rest will loosen enough to be pushed or screwed through to the
empty center.
Just be very careful not to gouge the clutch knob
channel threaded through hole, or you may need to repair it using a threading
tap to “rework” it.
Finally – BEFORE replacing the axle head cap - test fit each new nylon
clutch plug to select the best, 4 or 8 loosest ones. Otherwise, you may
have to push/hammer through, even these new ones, if they bind and also
won’t slide smoothly into the threaded hole.
It still requires a “FAIR amount” of work, hope to never
do this again – Lesson learned about not using hex wrench for plugs, finger
tight only - but eventually the task was not that difficult with this method.
Your other choice is to send your mount in to AP, lose the use of your mount for
perhaps months, and the hassle and costs of shipping. After having done the job
myself, I can really appreciate the hard work and time, someone at AP tech
support would have to put in, to do this repair. Not easy, but doable.
Makes upgrading to a modern AP-1100/1600, with no
clutches to eventually jamb, such an appealing idea,
Hope this outline helps.
Joe Z.
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Re: Dec axis won't even budge
Roland Christen
If you don't need to change the telescope setup, then don't do anything. The mount will work just fine.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: dhavalbrahmbhatt@... [ap-gto] To: ap-gto Sent: Mon, Sep 10, 2018 12:19 pm Subject: [ap-gto] Dec axis won't even budge Hello all,
I am not sure if this is a problem or not - but I was at the observatory this weekend and noticed that the Dec axis won't even budge after I loosened the clutches. It works just fine with a hand controller or using APCC as I ask it park and such (I could not test it under skies because it was cloudy both nights) - but should I be concerned?
I have an AP1200 GTO CP3 mount.
Thanks,
Dhaval
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Re: Can no longer connect to mount in The Sky 6 on my newer Win 10 laptop
Thanks George
Don
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Re: Can no longer connect to mount in The Sky 6 on my newer Win 10 laptop
George
Don,
Please see the Quick Start Guide for connection settings: http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/Quick_Start_&_Workflow_Guide.pdf
Regards,
George
George Whitney Astro-Physics, Inc. Phone: 815-282-1513 Email: george@...
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2018 3:02 PM To: ap-gto@... Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: Can no longer connect to mount in The Sky 6 on my newer Win 10 laptop
Hello Bob
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Re: Dec axis won't even budge
That oil leak has nothing to do with the light machine oil that you would use on the clutch plugs....that is only a couple of drops on each plug. I doubt if any oil leaking from the gear box would have any baring on your issue.
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Re: Dec axis won't even budge
Dhaval
Thanks! It does look like there was some form of leak of oil from the Dec gear box. I will do that when I am out the next time. It is good to know that this will work under power.
Thanks, Dhaval
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Re: Dec axis won't even budge
The clutch plugs probably dried out. It won't make any difference when moving the DEC axis under power....but you can't loosen to balance the mount by loosening the clutches because the plugs are jammed tight and need to either be lubed or replaced. First try a drop of oil in each plug hole after removing the clutch knobs. Let it soak for a while. This probably won't work though so you need to replace the plugs. You can get these from AP and do it yourself although you need to modify an old screw driver slightly to remove the plugs. Instructions are on the AP web site.
Usually the reason these are locked up is because you over tightened the clutch knobs....or left them tightened for a long time and the oil dried out on the plugs. If you don't use the clutch knobs but instead use Allen keys....you can put too much tension on them with the long handles of the Allen keys. By the way on the older plugs like you have....it may still get a bit tight from stiction. Roland told me to use a fish scale to balance the mount in each axis....hook the scale over the counterweight shaft for RA or scope for DEC. By the way....that is one of the improvements on the new mounts with one lever on each axis that completely disconnects the gear/axis for balancing and manual moving....yet it doesn't make any difference to the PEC so you don't have to redo it.
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Re: Guiding does not run in RA axis
mike.hambrick@...
The guide rate options are limited
on the GTO Keypad Controller (assuming that you have one), but it is worth
checking to see it it has changed.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I am dating myself here, but I fought a similar problem as you describe for several months with my old 800 mount with the 8010 hand held controller, relay adapter box, etc. I was convinced that the RA clutches on the mount were slipping and tried everything to "fix" them until I discovered that the guide rate switch on the hand controller had been switched from 2X to 8X. Best Regards Michael Hambrick ARLANXEO TSR Global Manufacturing Support PO Box 2000 Orange, TX 77631-2000 Phone: +1 (409) 882-2799 email: mike.hambrick@... From: "Stuart Heggie stuart.j.heggie@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...> To: ap-gto@... Date: 2018-09-09 07:03 PM Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Guiding does not run in RA axis Sent by: ap-gto@... There is a similar box in TSX in case he’s using that.
On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 7:20 PM chris1011@...
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
wrote:
Hello Wolfgang,
--
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Re: Guiding does not run in RA axis
Stuart Heggie <stuart.j.heggie@...>
There is a similar box in TSX in case he’s using that. Stuart
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Stuart Heggie
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Dec axis won't even budge
Dhaval
Hello all, I am not sure if this is a problem or not - but I was at the observatory this weekend and noticed that the Dec axis won't even budge after I loosened the clutches. It works just fine with a hand controller or using APCC as I ask it park and such (I could not test it under skies because it was cloudy both nights) - but should I be concerned? I have an AP1200 GTO CP3 mount. Thanks, Dhaval
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Re: Guiding does not run in RA axis
On 9/9/2018 4:20 PM, vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto] wrote:
i use a AP1200 with CP3 system. A few nights ago , i got troubles withI guide my AP1200 CP3 with SkyX with no problems using the ASCOM interface and a separate ST-402 guide camera. Some questions: 1. Is your mount tracking across the sky without guiding? I.e., after you center a target, does it remain roughly centered, or does it glide away on the RA axis? RA guiding usually corrects at 1/2 sidereal rate, so if the mount isn't tracking on its own, even a continuous westward correction won't keep up with the Earth's rotation. 2. What is the aggressiveness set to on the RA axis? Maybe it's too low for effective corrections. 3. What are the minimum and maximum relay movement settings? If maximum is 0 or too short, you won't get any corrections on that axis. 4. Have you logged autoguiding in SkyX? The header should report the aggressiveness settings and min/max movement settings. Below that you should see individual corrections with entries including CurCentroidX (and Y), GuideErrX (and Y), and plus/minus relay activations. The line-by-line corrections in the log should reveal what the autoguider is trying to do. If it's issuing corrections, but the mount never corrects, more detective work is in order. --- Mike
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Re: Guiding does not run in RA axis
Hi Rolando, thanks for responding!!! I use theSky X with the Camera Add On but there is a "Reverse X" box in the guider window. It was checked, i unchecked it and now everything runs like it should. I do not know, why this box was checked....sometimes it is better to check and read the manual first... Many thanks for your help! Regards, Wolfgang
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Re: Guiding does not run in RA axis
Roland Christen
Hello Wolfgang,
If you are using MaximDL you may have the little "Pier Flip" box in the guider window checked, that causes the guider to invert the correction signal. This will cause the guide star to make the wrong direction move and the star will quickly leave the guider box in RA.
It is NOT a defect in the mount. It is a wrong setting in your guider software.
I know this because it happens to me occasionally also.
Rolando
-----Original Message-----
From: vergoldermeister@... [ap-gto] To: ap-gto Sent: Sun, Sep 9, 2018 3:20 pm Subject: [ap-gto] Guiding does not run in RA axis Hi everybody,
i use a AP1200 with CP3 system. A few nights ago , i got troubles with the guiding in the RA axis. The guider detects the star and even the calibration works perfect. But when i start guiding, it works for a about 10 sec. and then it seems that the RA axis is not working anymore, the star gets lost.
I also checked the gear adjustment, like it is described in the manual, everything is fine there.
I can move the mount via the GTO keybad, it also works without any problems, with every kind of moving rate (1200-0,5). The cables are free....
The Mount, Guider and CCD is controlled via TheSky X and Camera Add On.
Any idea?
Regards,
Wolfgang
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Guiding does not run in RA axis
Hi everybody, i use a AP1200 with CP3 system. A few nights ago , i got troubles with the guiding in the RA axis. The guider detects the star and even the calibration works perfect. But when i start guiding, it works for a about 10 sec. and then it seems that the RA axis is not working anymore, the star gets lost. I also checked the gear adjustment, like it is described in the manual, everything is fine there. I can move the mount via the GTO keybad, it also works without any problems, with every kind of moving rate (1200-0,5). The cables are free.... The Mount, Guider and CCD is controlled via TheSky X and Camera Add On. Any idea? Regards, Wolfgang
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Re: Can no longer connect to mount in The Sky 6 on my newer Win 10 laptop
Ray Gralak
Hi Don,
However, the old problem persists if I open The Sky by double clickingIf you *have* to run TheSky as administrator, then just run your other apps (e.g. MaximDL) as administrator as well. Some people do this even though the preferred way is to run under normal privileges. That said, you might want to try checking if TheSky EXE file (in Program Files) is set to run as administrator. If it is, then you should be able to disable that by changing the properties of the EXE file. Another option is to try creating a new desktop icon directly from TheSky EXE file. That should setup the default settings that allow it to run normally. Best regards, -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message-----
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Re: Can no longer connect to mount in The Sky 6 on my newer Win 10 laptop
Ray Gralak
Hi Don,
However, the old problem persists if I open The Sky by double clickingIf you *have* to run TheSky as administrator, then just run your other apps (e.g. MaximDL) as administrator as well. Some people do this even though the preferred way is to run under normal privileges. That said, you might want to try checking if TheSky EXE file (in Program Files) is set to run as administrator. If it is, then you should be able to disable that by changing the properties of the EXE file. Another option is to try creating a new desktop icon directly from TheSky EXE file. That should setup the default settings that allow it to run normally. Best regards, -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver -----Original Message-----
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Re: Can no longer connect to mount in The Sky 6 on my newer Win 10 laptop
Ray
You were absolutely right! I had run the Sky 6 as admin in order to get TeleAPI to register properly. I right clicked on The Sky desktop icon went to properties/compatibility but found the run as administrator check box was unchecked. I then started The Sky by right clicking and selecting open. The program opened and all worked well. However, the old problem persists if I open The Sky by double clicking on the sky desktop Icon. I tried running the compatibility checker and accepted the suggested fix but it still won't work by a double click on the desktop icon. It only works properly if I select open after a right click on the Icon. I will look into APCC. I have the V chip in my GOTO CP3. Will that give me full APCC functionality or do I need the V1 chip? Thanks a bunch for your help Regards Don
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Re: Can no longer connect to mount in The Sky 6 on my newer Win 10 laptop
Ray Gralak
Hi Don,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The AP V2 ASCOM driver is a hub, but I think you were trying to run one of the applications as a regular user and another "as Administrator". This will cause *two* instances of the ASCOM driver both trying to use the same COM port, because COM-interop works on a per-user basis. To fix the problem you must run both TheSky6 and MaximDL under your regular user account (preferred), or run both "As administrator". FWIW, if you throw APCC into the mix, then you can actually run both instances of the ASCOM driver as APCC allocates a separate virtual COM ports for the regular user account and the administrator account. It can do that because APCC is a 4-port "virtual com port router". Each ASCOM driver has its own virtual COM port created by APCC. APCC keeps track of the origin of each request and makes sure the replies are sent back to the originating virtual port. APCC of course would be using the single COM port to the mount (or Ethernet/Wifi to the mount). Best regards, -Ray Gralak Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
-----Original Message-----
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Re: Can no longer connect to mount in The Sky 6 on my newer Win 10 laptop
Hello Bob
I did as you suggested and reinstalled the TeliAPI plugin. Afterwards, I was able to connect to the mount through the APV2 driver and operate it with the Sky6 fine just like I do with my Win 7 Pro laptop. However, now when I start Maxim DL, and try to connect concurrently to the mount through the AP V2 driver, I get an error message saying the com port is in use by another application. When I bring up the driver window, I see there is only one client (The Sky) connected. I then tried disconnecting The Sky and connecting to the mount with Maxim, the connection is successful and everything works as it should. When I then try connecting The Sky6 I get the same come port error message as above. The APV 2 driver is not acting as a hub. It looks like both applications are trying to use the same com port(port4) natively which of course Windows doesn't allow. I tried reinstalling TeleAPI and configuring it and the driver as administrator but had the same result. I am running the latest build of Win 10 and the latest full release of the AP driver. I tried selecting a different com port foreach application but couldn't find the mount on anything but Com4. Any Ideas? George or Ray do you have any suggestions? Don
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Re: Trying the SkyX (how to connect to mount?)
Refunded SkyX - lacked the rotator support I was looking for. I found SGP framing and mosaic wizard allows me to do what I want. I wasn't impressed with theSkyX enough to keep it. (lots of free programs do the same or better). WWT is still top choice for me. - but thanks to all who commented.
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