Date   

Re: Re-greasing the AP1200GTO Mount

Roland Christen
 

First contact George to get a grease kit with our special mix.

Re-greasing means removing the motor gearbox to expose the worm teeth. First I would remove the scope and counterweights. Then remove the Dec gearbox by unscrewing the 5 Allen Head screws holding it to the bracket. Make a note of which screws go where. When you get access to the worm teeth, it's just a matter of wiping off the old grease (lots of paper towels), and maybe using an old toothbrush and mineral spirits to clean down deep into the teeth. Also clean the grease on the worm. It's a good idea to attach the controller to the gearboxes to turn the worms when you are cleaning them so that you maintain the correct PE synchronization. The gearbox does not need to be attached to the worm wheel in this operation.

Apply the new grease liberally to all the worm wheel and worm gear teeth. Once you have done the Dec and replaced the gearbox, you can remove the Dec axis from the RA axis and do the same operation on the RA.

Taking your mount apart and greasing the gears will help you to better understand how your mount works. It is quite easy to do this, however it can be a bit messy, so have lots of paper towels on hand.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: 'Steven Reilly' sreilly24590@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-ug ; ap-gto
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 9:27 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Re-greasing the AP1200GTO Mount



Is there any in-depth documentation (pictures/video help a lot) that covers re-greasing the 1200 mount? I need to do this now and have no experience in this procedure.
 
Thanks,
 
Steve
 



Re: New file uploaded to ap-gto

Christopher Erickson
 

If it isn't already taken I would like to put it on the AP1200 mount at the
Onizuka VIS, which is used exclusively for public outreach.

I am happy to pay for USPS Flat Rate Priority Mail shipping to Hawaii, along
with any other expenses you might need covered.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Erickson [mailto:christopher.k.erickson@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:02 PM
To: 'stevenhoffman53@hotmail.com'
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
Importance: High

If this PASILL4 is still available, I'll take it!

The AP1200 up at the Onizuka VIS needs a polar scope.


-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 5:42 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been
uploaded to the Files area of the ap-gto group.

File : /20171218_223120.jpg
Uploaded by : sink45ny <stevenhoffman53@hotmail.com>
Description : Pasill4 free to a good home.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/files/20171218_223120.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN
15398

Regards,

sink45ny <stevenhoffman53@hotmail.com>


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Re: Free to a good home - PASILL4

steven ho
 

If the above post violates forum rules please delete it. Also the person getting the PASILL4 must pay shipping (to the lower 48 only)

thanks
Steve


Free to a good home - PASILL4

steven ho
 

All I ask is that it is for your personal use and you do not resell it. If you no longer need it please pass it on to another astronomer free of charge. I think it has an AP adapter call Q16030 but I'm not positive. 


Refer to the picture which has been uploaded to the files section named https://xa.yimg.com/df/ap-gto/20171218_223120.jpg?token=kMrxKQJ-YakL_-tj1IidZz3a4OaB_uHdCVpCiAQ5Z-h23t2DTCmieP1-2WOL38bkOIiYuujrxWeoqOfN2UqHvWJgvlq-PaS34HBZ48CAJ8Q4Wg&type=download pasill4 free to a good home.


 It's not perfect the reticle has a small crack at the outer edge from tightening it too much. This should not affect it usefullness. This was used in my AP-900 until upgrading to the RAPAS.


Regards

Steve


 


Re: Re-greasing the AP1200GTO Mount

Woody Schlom <woody@...>
 

Steve,
 
There's been a LOT of discussion (and recommendations direct from Roland) regarding the actual greases to use (and not use) in the past couple of months here.  You can search past posts.  But I don't recall much regarding the actual process.
 
Woody
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 7:27 PM
To: ap-ug@...; ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Re-greasing the AP1200GTO Mount

 

Is there any in-depth documentation (pictures/video help a lot) that covers re-greasing the 1200 mount? I need to do this now and have no experience in this procedure.

Thanks,

Steve


New file uploaded to ap-gto

ap-gto@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the ap-gto
group.

File : /20171218_223120.jpg
Uploaded by : sink45ny <stevenhoffman53@hotmail.com>
Description : Pasill4 free to a good home.

You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/files/20171218_223120.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398

Regards,

sink45ny <stevenhoffman53@hotmail.com>


Re-greasing the AP1200GTO Mount

Steve Reilly
 

Is there any in-depth documentation (pictures/video help a lot) that covers re-greasing the 1200 mount? I need to do this now and have no experience in this procedure.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

 


Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Suresh Mohan
 

I’ve been following this thread and here is a solution for you to get polar aligned ( as you are new ) . After the mount is levelled pick a star at zenith on the celestial equator . If you have a diagnol and a 12 mm cross hair eyepiece do the following . Align your east/ west movement on the horizontal line of your cross hair which automatically makes your north south movement on the vertical line . Now forget which is north south east or west . Watch the star in the 12 mm cross hair eyepiece and remember DLUR : Down = left. UP = Right . That means if the star goes D own in your eyepiece make movements in your azimuth knobs that shift the star L eft in your eyepiece ; if moves U p in your eyepiece make adjustment in your azimuth knob to make the star move R ight
If you do not have diagnol use the formula DRUL means Down = right , UP = left
Let me know if you need more explanation
Suresh
For ccd : open a software showing a cross hair and do the same ( but since no diagnol use the formula DRUL )

On 19-Dec-2017, at 1:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

It's up to you how close you need to be polar aligned. The closer you are, the more accurate your GoTos and the more accurate the tracking.

Rolando




-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Roland

I'll use my hyperstar lens instead with the CCD camera to get the wider field. If this works, should I just follow this up with the entire procedure that George sent?


On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:07 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.
Yes, that is correct. If you use a star that is within 3 hours of the zenith, it should also be near the RA line. Make sure that you go due East and not North-East.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.
Just so I am 100% understanding, "Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA."...... When I perform this (using AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.

I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.
Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen, use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the horizon.

If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth axis only.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Roland

I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case) and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through the site hole.

Bruce

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment.
I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong direction each time.

You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian (example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side). Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.
Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.
Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.

This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).

If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong - perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Hi George

Yes- completely flush- no separation

To recap the scenario.......

After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star, center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the 10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off center.

I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.

Bruce



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a little separation?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513
Email: george@astro-physics.com

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting


"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting


No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the southern sky.
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this in the northern pole. The results will be poor.

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting


well, I am obviously not doing something right

For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.

So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So, I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping if the star keeps drifting anyway.

Bruce

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?
Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.

Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Roland

Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine

I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?

Bruce



On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift, RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

yes and well balanced

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghent daleg@elemental.org [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests could be the case.. My question: What is the simplest and best way to do the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce































Re: When updating GTOCP4 do you loose PEC?

Robert Berta
 

Roland....
Hnmn....here in Michigan it was cold and snow and clouded out..now it is melting and slush....but still clouded out. Don't think you would want to swap for that ;-)  Oh well...at least I have lots of time to service all the equipment and update software.


Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Roland Christen
 

It's up to you how close you need to be polar aligned. The closer you are, the more accurate your GoTos and the more accurate the tracking.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





Roland


I'll use my hyperstar lens instead with the CCD camera to get the wider field. If this works, should I just follow this up with the entire procedure that George sent?





On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:07 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:









Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.

Yes, that is correct. If you use a star that is within 3 hours of the zenith, it should also be near the RA line. Make sure that you go due East and not North-East.


Rolando





-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.
Just so I am 100% understanding, "Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA."...... When I perform this (using AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.


I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.



On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:










Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen, use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the horizon.



If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth axis only.


Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





Roland


I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case) and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.


So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through the site hole.


Bruce



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:










I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment.

I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong direction each time.



You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian (example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side). Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.

Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.

Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.



This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).



If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong - perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.



Rolando





-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





Hi George


Yes- completely flush- no separation


To recap the scenario.......


After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star, center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the 10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off center.


I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.


Bruce






On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a little separation?


Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513
Email: george@astro-physics.com



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)




From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com> on behalf of Bruce Donzantidonza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting







No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the southern sky.
On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this in the northern pole. The results will be poor.




From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com> on behalf of Bruce Donzantidonza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting








well, I am obviously not doing something right



For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.



So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So, I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping if the star keeps drifting anyway.



Bruce




On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM,chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?


Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.



Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.



Rolando





-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Roland



Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine



I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?



Bruce








On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM,chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift, RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando







-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



yes and well balanced




On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghentdaleg@elemental.org [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests could be the case.. My question: What is the simplest and best way to do the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce















Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Roland Christen
 

CCD cameras don't need to be aligned perfectly. Close is good enough. Having the axes line up just makes troubleshooting easier.

Just place a star on the center of a crosshair in the CCD image and do a recal. Then move the star either N-S or E-W and take another image. If the star is no longer on the crosshair, rotate the camera accordingly and take another image. Eventually the star will be close enough. Then go back to the original center by moving the scope or by GoTo to the same star. It should land on the crosshair center or close to it.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory fyrframe@centurylink.net [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





I read the part telling me to align my CCD camera with axis, both RA and DEC.

A question I have considered for awhile now, when we line things up to be orthogonality aligned, at least by eyesight, there is very little chance that the CCD will be perfectly aligned on the axis. Is this alignment less than critical in terms of the alignment does not have to perfect?

Thanks,

Gregory Gig Harbor, WA.



On 12/18/2017 7:58 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] wrote:







Bruce,



Did you review (and print out) this Pdf:

http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/Drift_Alignment_RA_Correction_Method.pdf




Regards,



George



George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-282-1513

Email: george@astro-physics.com






From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 9:47 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting












Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.



Just so I am 100% understanding, "Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA."...... When I perform this (using AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.







I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.







On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:













Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.




Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen, use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the horizon.







If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth axis only.







Rolando







-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting







Roland







I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case) and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.







So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through the site hole.







Bruce







On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:













I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment.




I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong direction each time.







You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:



First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian (example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side). Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.



Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.



Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.







This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).







If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong - perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.







Rolando











-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting







Hi George







Yes- completely flush- no separation







To recap the scenario.......







After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star, center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the 10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off center.







I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.







Bruce















On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:









Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a little separation?








Regards,







George







George Whitney



Astro-Physics, Inc.



Phone: 815-282-1513



Email: george@astro-physics.com










From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

















"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen."







Dude, that is a problem. :)












From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups...com> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting


















No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the southern sky.




Sent from my iPhone






On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:












Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this in the northern pole. The results will be poor.












From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups...com> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting




















well, I am obviously not doing something right











For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.











So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So, I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping if the star keeps drifting anyway.











Bruce











On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



















horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?






Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.


Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Bruce Donzanti
 

Roland

I'll use my hyperstar lens instead with the CCD camera to get the wider
field. If this works, should I just follow this up with the entire
procedure that George sent?


On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:07 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up
or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W
but no need to get it in the crosshair.

Yes, that is correct. If you use a star that is within 3 hours of the
zenith, it should also be near the RA line. Make sure that you go due East
and not North-East.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.
Just so I am 100% understanding, *"**Bring the star to the Dec centerline
and ignore any error in RA."...... *When I perform this (using
AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is
aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline
and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two
horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the
crosshair.

I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs.
Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in
the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and
ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen,
use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the
horizon.

If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith
to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this
one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth
axis only.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Roland

I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your
steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case)
and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried
Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is
move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using
the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD
camera software screen.

So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once
again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all
correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through
the site hole.

Bruce

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment.

I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star
is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong
direction each time.

You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian
(example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side).
Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a
crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.
Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore
any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by
turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star
overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the
crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.
Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be
very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then
do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.

This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as
the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift
at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using
the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got
excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).

If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong -
perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Hi George

Yes- completely flush- no separation

To recap the scenario.......

After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS
and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star,
center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are
centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in
the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the
accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was
trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am
unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the
celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the
10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but
drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up
to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost
off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when
I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off
center.

I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.

Bruce



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto]
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a
little separation?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513 <(815)%20282-1513>
Email: george@astro-physics.com

*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS
screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the
southern sky.
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this
in the northern pole. The results will be poor.

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


well, I am obviously not doing something right

For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the
celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera
software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the
vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it
right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only
get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point
where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.

So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So,
I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping
if the star keeps drifting anyway.

Bruce

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical
crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?

Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.

Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

Roland

Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine

I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and
down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west
motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion-
correct?

Bruce



On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift,
RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

yes and well balanced

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghent daleg@elemental.org [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop
drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude
adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point
what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near
the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have
half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any
further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near
the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not
drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a
large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the
right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align
procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each
time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out
how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced
and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on
the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am
concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests
could be the case.. My question: What is the simplest and best way to do
the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is
a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize
that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel
compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce






























Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Gregory <fyrframe@...>
 

I read the part telling me to align my CCD camera with axis, both RA and DEC.

A question I have considered for awhile now, when we line things up to be orthogonality aligned, at least by eyesight, there is very little chance that the CCD will be perfectly aligned on the axis. Is this alignment less than critical in terms of the alignment does not have to perfect?

Thanks,

Gregory Gig Harbor, WA.

On 12/18/2017 7:58 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] wrote:

Bruce,

Did you review (and print out) this Pdf:

http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/Drift_Alignment_RA_Correction_Method.pdf

Regards,

George

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-282-1513

Email: george@astro-physics.com

*From:*ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
*Sent:* Monday, December 18, 2017 9:47 AM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.

Just so I am 100% understanding, /"Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA."...... /When I perform this (using AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.

I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com <mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ
knobs.  Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never
get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen, use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the horizon.

If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth axis only.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com <mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Roland

I am at a total loss now and completely stuck.  I tried to follow your steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case) and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV.  Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs.  Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

So, I cannot even do the drift alignment.  I have checked the keypad once again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all correct.  Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through the site hole.

Bruce

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com <mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the
celestial  equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when
performing an AZ adjustment.

I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong direction each time.

You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:

First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian (example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side). Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.

Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.

Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.

This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).

If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong - perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com <mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Hi George

Yes- completely flush- no separation

To recap the scenario.......

After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app.  I then slew to a bright star, center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in the general area.  So, I have been assuming that I need to check the accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial  equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment.  I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the 10 mins after a small Alt adjustment.  I then went back to check AZ but drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS.  This is confirmed when I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off center.

I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.

Bruce

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com <mailto:george@astro-physics.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a little separation?

Regards,

George

George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-282-1513 <tel:%28815%29%20282-1513>

Email: george@astro-physics.com <mailto:george@astro-physics.com>

*From:*ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>]
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:*ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <ap-gto@yahoogroups...com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com <mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the southern sky.

Sent from my iPhone


On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com <mailto:bill@outlook.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to
do this in the northern pole. The results will be poor.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

*From:*ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
<ap-gto@yahoogroups...com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on
behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar
Alignment and drifting

well, I am obviously not doing something right

For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above
the celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the
CCD camera software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines
and N/S on the vertical lines.  When the star drifts up (N) I use
the AZ knobs to move it right and then re-center to see if the
drift is less.  At best, I can only get 3 minutes regardless as to
how many times I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost
goes off of the RAPAS screen.

So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try
next.  So, I hope someone can tell me what to try next.  I do not
see software helping if the star keeps drifting anyway.

Bruce

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@aol.com
<mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the
vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?

Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.

Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar
Alignment and drifting

Roland

Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine

I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand
up and down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are
parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are
parallel to north-south motion- correct?

Bruce

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM, chris1011@aol.com
<mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of
drift, RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar
Alignment and drifting

yes and well balanced

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghent daleg@elemental.org
<mailto:daleg@elemental.org> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

> On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Roland
>
> I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to
stop drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the
altitude adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not
obvious at this point what I am doing wrong. I was able to first
adjust azimuth from drifting.
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com
<mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>
>
> I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I
did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky
and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift.
Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the
celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a
half minutes.
> Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian
near the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is
done, you have half of your alignment finished and won't need to
adjust the azimuth any further.
>
> Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a
star near the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until
that star does not drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned
and drift is zeroed out over a large portion of the sky.
>
> Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris
at the right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do
the drift align procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be
very close to the pole each time.
>
> Rolando
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: donza2735@gmail.com <mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto]
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
> To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
> Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting
>
>
>
> I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still
feeling out how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA.
The scope is balanced and it is leveled in the E/W direction.
>
> I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I
did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky
and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift.
Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the
celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a
half minutes. I then looked once again on the RAPAS and Polaris
seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am concluding from this
that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests could be the
case... My question: What is the simplest and best way to do the
drift alignment which I have never done?
> I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro
which is a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually.
I also realize that the simplest and best ways may not be the
same. I do have an Intel compute stick with Windows 10 if folks
think PemPro is the way to go.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Bruce Donzanti
 

Thank you both for the quick responses. Once I get this nailed down, I
will follow what George has sent me.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:09 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



George, let him do the method I suggest first in order to get the mount
basically aligned. Then he can further refine it with the drift method
later.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 9:55 am
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Bruce,

Did you review (and print out) this Pdf:
http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/Drift_
Alignment_RA_Correction_Method.pdf

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513 <(815)%20282-1513>
Email: george@astro-physics.com

*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com?>]
*Sent:* Monday, December 18, 2017 9:47 AM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.
Just so I am 100% understanding, *"Bring the star to the Dec centerline
and ignore any error in RA."...... *When I perform this (using
AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is
aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline
and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two
horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the
crosshair.

I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs.
Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in
the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and
ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen,
use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the
horizon.

If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith
to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this
one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth
axis only.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

Roland

I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your
steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case)
and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried
Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is
move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using
the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD
camera software screen.

So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once
again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all
correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through
the site hole.

Bruce

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment.

I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star
is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong
direction each time.

You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian
(example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side).
Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a
crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.
Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore
any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by
turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star
overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the
crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.
Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be
very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then
do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.

This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as
the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift
at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using
the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got
excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).

If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong -
perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

Hi George

Yes- completely flush- no separation

To recap the scenario.......

After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS
and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star,
center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are
centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in
the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the
accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was
trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am
unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the
celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the
10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but
drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up
to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost
off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when
I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off
center.

I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.

Bruce



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto]
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a
little separation?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513 <(815)%20282-1513>
Email: george@astro-physics.com

*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS
screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups....com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the
southern sky.
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this
in the northern pole. The results will be poor.

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups....com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


well, I am obviously not doing something right

For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the
celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera
software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the
vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it
right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only
get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point
where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.

So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So,
I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping
if the star keeps drifting anyway.

Bruce

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical
crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?

Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.

Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

Roland

Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine

I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and
down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west
motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion-
correct?

Bruce



On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift,
RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning..

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

yes and well balanced

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghent daleg@elemental.org [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop
drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude
adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point
what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near
the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have
half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any
further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near
the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not
drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a
large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the
right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align
procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each
time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out
how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced
and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on
the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am
concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests
could be the case.... My question: What is the simplest and best way to do
the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is
a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize
that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel
compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce




























Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Bruce Donzanti
 

Thanks again.....apologies for being so dense.

I think my C11" @f/5.6 presents a very narrow FOV- so that might be part of
my problem. I was also north-east with Capella last night




On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:07 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up
or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W
but no need to get it in the crosshair.

Yes, that is correct. If you use a star that is within 3 hours of the
zenith, it should also be near the RA line. Make sure that you go due East
and not North-East.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.
Just so I am 100% understanding, *"**Bring the star to the Dec centerline
and ignore any error in RA."...... *When I perform this (using
AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is
aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline
and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two
horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the
crosshair.

I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs.
Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in
the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and
ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen,
use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the
horizon.

If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith
to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this
one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth
axis only.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Roland

I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your
steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case)
and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried
Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is
move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using
the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD
camera software screen.

So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once
again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all
correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through
the site hole.

Bruce

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment.

I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star
is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong
direction each time.

You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian
(example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side).
Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a
crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.
Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore
any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by
turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star
overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the
crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.
Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be
very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then
do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.

This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as
the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift
at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using
the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got
excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).

If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong -
perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Hi George

Yes- completely flush- no separation

To recap the scenario.......

After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS
and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star,
center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are
centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in
the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the
accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was
trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am
unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the
celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the
10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but
drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up
to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost
off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when
I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off
center.

I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.

Bruce



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto]
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a
little separation?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513 <(815)%20282-1513>
Email: george@astro-physics.com

*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS
screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the
southern sky.
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this
in the northern pole. The results will be poor.

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


well, I am obviously not doing something right

For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the
celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera
software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the
vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it
right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only
get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point
where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.

So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So,
I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping
if the star keeps drifting anyway.

Bruce

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical
crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?

Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.

Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

Roland

Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine

I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and
down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west
motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion-
correct?

Bruce



On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift,
RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

yes and well balanced

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghent daleg@elemental.org [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop
drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude
adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point
what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near
the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have
half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any
further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near
the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not
drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a
large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the
right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align
procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each
time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out
how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced
and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on
the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am
concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests
could be the case.. My question: What is the simplest and best way to do
the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is
a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize
that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel
compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce






























Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Roland Christen
 

George, let him do the method I suggest first in order to get the mount basically aligned. Then he can further refine it with the drift method later.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 9:55 am
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





Bruce,

Did you review (and print out) this Pdf:
http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/Drift_Alignment_RA_Correction_Method.pdf


Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513
Email: george@astro-physics.com



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 9:47 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting






Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.

Just so I am 100% understanding,"Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA."...... When I perform this (using AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.



I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.




On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.


Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen, use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the horizon.



If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth axis only.



Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Roland



I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case) and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.



So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through the site hole.



Bruce




On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM,chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment.


I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong direction each time.



You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:

First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian (example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side). Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.

Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.

Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.



This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).



If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong - perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.



Rolando





-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Hi George



Yes- completely flush- no separation



To recap the scenario.......



After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star, center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the 10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off center.



I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.



Bruce








On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, Georgegeorge@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a little separation?




Regards,



George



George Whitney

Astro-Physics, Inc.

Phone: 815-282-1513

Email: george@astro-physics.com





From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting








"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen."



Dude, that is a problem. :)






From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups...com> on behalf of Bruce Donzantidonza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting










No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the southern sky.
On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:






Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this in the northern pole. The results will be poor.






From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups...com> on behalf of Bruce Donzantidonza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting











well, I am obviously not doing something right





For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.





So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So, I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping if the star keeps drifting anyway.





Bruce






On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM,chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:










horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?



Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.





Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.





Rolando








-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





Roland





Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine





I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?





Bruce












On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM,chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:






Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift, RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando











-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





yes and well balanced






On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghentdaleg@elemental.org [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests could be the case... My question: What is the simplest and best way to do the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce















Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Roland Christen
 

Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.

Yes, that is correct. If you use a star that is within 3 hours of the zenith, it should also be near the RA line. Make sure that you go due East and not North-East.


Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.
Just so I am 100% understanding, "Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA."...... When I perform this (using AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.


I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.



On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:









Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen, use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the horizon.



If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth axis only.


Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





Roland


I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case) and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.


So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through the site hole.


Bruce



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:










I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment.

I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong direction each time.



You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian (example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side). Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.

Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.

Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.



This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).



If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong - perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.



Rolando





-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





Hi George


Yes- completely flush- no separation


To recap the scenario.......


After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star, center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the 10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off center.


I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.


Bruce






On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a little separation?


Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513
Email: george@astro-physics.com



From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting





"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)




From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com> on behalf of Bruce Donzantidonza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting







No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the southern sky.
On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this in the northern pole. The results will be poor.




From:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com> on behalf of Bruce Donzantidonza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting








well, I am obviously not doing something right



For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.



So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So, I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping if the star keeps drifting anyway.



Bruce




On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM,chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:







horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?


Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.



Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.



Rolando





-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Roland



Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine



I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?



Bruce








On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM,chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift, RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando







-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



yes and well balanced




On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghentdaleg@elemental.org [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:





Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests could be the case.. My question: What is the simplest and best way to do the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce















Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

George
 

Bruce,

Did you review (and print out) this Pdf:
http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/Drift_Alignment_RA_Correction_Method.pdf

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513
Email: george@astro-physics.com

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 9:47 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting


Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.
Just so I am 100% understanding, "Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA."...... When I perform this (using AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the crosshair.

I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com<mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.
Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen, use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the horizon.

If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth axis only.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Roland

I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case) and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through the site hole.

Bruce

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com<mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment.
I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong direction each time.

You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian (example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side). Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.
Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.
Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.

This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).

If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong - perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Hi George

Yes- completely flush- no separation

To recap the scenario.......

After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star, center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the 10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off center.

I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.

Bruce



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com<mailto:george@astro-physics.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a little separation?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513<tel:(815)%20282-1513>
Email: george@astro-physics.com<mailto:george@astro-physics.com>

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting


"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)

________________________________
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <ap-gto@yahoogroups...com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting


No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the southern sky.
On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com<mailto:bill@outlook.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this in the northern pole. The results will be poor.

________________________________
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> <ap-gto@yahoogroups...com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups..com>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting


well, I am obviously not doing something right

For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.

So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So, I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping if the star keeps drifting anyway.

Bruce

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@aol.com<mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?
Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.

Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Roland

Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine

I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?

Bruce



On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM, chris1011@aol.com<mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:

Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift, RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

yes and well balanced

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghent daleg@elemental.org<mailto:daleg@elemental.org> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com<mailto:chris1011@aol.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com<mailto:donza2735@gmail.com> [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com<mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests could be the case... My question: What is the simplest and best way to do the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce















Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Bruce Donzanti
 

Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.
Just so I am 100% understanding, *"**Bring the star to the Dec centerline
and ignore any error in RA."...... *When I perform this (using
AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is
aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline
and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two
horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the
crosshair.

I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs.
Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in
the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and
ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen,
use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the
horizon.

If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith
to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this
one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth
axis only.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Roland

I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your
steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case)
and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried
Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is
move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using
the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD
camera software screen.

So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once
again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all
correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through
the site hole.

Bruce

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment.

I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star
is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong
direction each time.

You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian
(example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side).
Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a
crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.
Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore
any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by
turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star
overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the
crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.
Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be
very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then
do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.

This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as
the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift
at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using
the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got
excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).

If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong -
perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Hi George

Yes- completely flush- no separation

To recap the scenario.......

After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS
and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star,
center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are
centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in
the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the
accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was
trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am
unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the
celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the
10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but
drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up
to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost
off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when
I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off
center.

I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.

Bruce



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto]
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a
little separation?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513 <(815)%20282-1513>
Email: george@astro-physics.com

*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS
screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the
southern sky.
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this
in the northern pole. The results will be poor.

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


well, I am obviously not doing something right

For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the
celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera
software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the
vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it
right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only
get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point
where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.

So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So,
I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping
if the star keeps drifting anyway.

Bruce

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical
crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?

Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.

Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

Roland

Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine

I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and
down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west
motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion-
correct?

Bruce



On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift,
RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

yes and well balanced

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghent daleg@elemental.org [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop
drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude
adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point
what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near
the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have
half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any
further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near
the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not
drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a
large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the
right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align
procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each
time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out
how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced
and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on
the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am
concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests
could be the case.. My question: What is the simplest and best way to do
the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is
a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize
that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel
compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce



























Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting

Roland Christen
 


Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs.  Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen. 
Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen, use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the horizon.

If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth axis only.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Roland

I am at a total loss now and completely stuck.  I tried to follow your steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case) and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV.  Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs.  Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD camera software screen. 

So, I cannot even do the drift alignment.  I have checked the keypad once again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all correct.  Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through the site hole.  

Bruce  

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial  equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment. 
I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong direction each time.

You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian (example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side). Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.
Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.
Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.

This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).

If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong - perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting



Hi George 

Yes- completely flush- no separation

To recap the scenario......

After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app.  I then slew to a bright star, center it, and do a re-calibrate.  When I slew to any DSO, none are centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in the general area.  So, I have been assuming that I need to check the accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly.  This is when I was trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial  equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ adjustment.  I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the 10 mins after a small Alt adjustment.  I then went back to check AZ but drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS.  This is confirmed when I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off center.   

I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.

Bruce

    

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 
Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a little separation?
 
Regards,
 
George
 
George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone:  815-282-1513
Email:  george@...
 
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting
 
 
"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen."
 
Dude, that is a problem. :)
 

From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting
 
 
No!!  You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the southern sky.

On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 
Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this in the northern pole. The results will be poor.
 

From: ap-gto@... <ap-gto@...> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting
 
 
well, I am obviously not doing something right
 
For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the vertical lines.  When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it right and then re-center to see if the drift is less.  At best, I can only get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.
 
So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next.  So, I hope someone can tell me what to try next.  I do not see software helping if the star keeps drifting anyway. 
 
Bruce
 
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 
 
horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?
Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.
 
Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.
 
Rolando
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting
 
Roland
 
Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine
 
I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?
 
Bruce
 
  
 
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 
Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift, RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting
 
yes and well balanced
 
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghent daleg@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

> On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks Roland
>
> I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.
>
> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
>
>
> I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
> Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any further.
>
> Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a large portion of the sky.
>
> Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each time.
>
> Rolando
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: donza2735@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
> To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
> Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting
>
>
>
> I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced and it is leveled in the E/W direction.
>
> I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests could be the case. My question: What is the simplest and best way to do the drift alignment which I have never done?
> I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bruce
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