Date   

Re: Cable and Systems Management

AlSmith
 

Wayne, All.

Proud new GTO owner here, first post here, hi! Thanks for the add, y'all have already answered some of my questions, especially the thread on apcc install and virtual comports (If anyone else is having problems installing, and they are using Norton, in addition to turning it off for installation, the firewall also needs configuring or it hides the ports from being scanned.. grr. 2 days of debug :)

I set mine up by using a pelican case with the power supplies, fusebox, Icron and focus hub in there. I used nylon cable sheathing to make an umbilical of 2x12Vdc power, a USB extender and 2xCAT5 cables for the focusers. This umbilical goes up through the mount, and I leave it in the RA axis when disassembled. Up top there is a 4 port usb hub, connecting to the camera, guide, flipflat etc. One of the 12v supplies is dedicated to the camera, the other for the dew controller. Cheapo 4 port usb hub hasn't failed on me yet, got a spare just in case.I bundled the mounts power and USB cables similarly.
Whole thing takes about 2-3 minutes to hookup or breakdown.
Some good ideas above for mounting options. For now, I just used sticky back velcro to place the usb hub and dew controller on the saddle.

Regards,
Al..

Some pics of my rig here:
https://flic.kr/s/aHskT5Qhyn


Re: APPM Run Complete Pointing Spectacular

dave@...
 

yes. been using appm and other models for awhile now. won't  run without one. love it long time!



Re: Park Positions Don't Work

raypalmer77
 

The coordinates for my hand controller are -
31.9505° S, 115.8605° E

The mount knows where it is. It points perfectly through TSX. It is also set to get its coordinates from TSX (same coords as above). But if I don't use TSX and just the hand controller, it still points correctly. Its just the default park positions that don't work as per description above. 

I am using firmware Code Level V4.17. DB Level 0. The version before this also had the same parking problem as per description above. 

Regards

Ray





Re: Park 4 Position

Ray Gralak
 

Hi Kerry,

I would check that your latitude (and longitude) are set correctly in the ASCOM driver, APCC, and the hand controller (if you had used the hand controller to park/unpark). If latitude was set incorrectly incorrect, then the behavior you indicate could happen.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 3:51 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] Park 4 Position



I have a question about the Park 4 position. I believe the documentation states that for
the Park for position, the counterweights are level with the horizon and the telescope
is on the east side of the mount also level with the horizon pointing south.




When I set the hand controller to park to Park 4, it correctly slews the mount so that
the counterweights are indeed parallel to the horizon and the telescope is on the east
side of the mount, the telescope is pointing south, but the telescope is not parallel to
the horizon, it is tilted down about 30 degrees towards the south. The same thing
happens when I park to Park 4 from APCC or the ASCOM driver. Same position.




Is there a change to the Park 4 position from the documentation or is something
screwed up with my mount's declination axis?




I am using a 1200GTO with the GTOCP4 controller and the latest versi ons of APCC,
the ASCOM driver and handset firmware.




Thanks,

Kerry





Park 4 Position

Kerry Williams
 

I have a question about the Park 4 position. I believe the documentation states that for the Park for position, the counterweights are level with the horizon and the telescope is on the east side of the mount also level with the horizon pointing south. 


When I set the hand controller to park to Park 4, it correctly slews the mount so that the counterweights are indeed parallel to the horizon and the telescope is on the east side of the mount, the telescope is pointing south, but the telescope is not parallel to the horizon, it is tilted down about 30 degrees towards the south. The same thing happens when I park to Park 4 from APCC or the ASCOM driver. Same position.


Is there a change to the Park 4 position from the documentation or is something screwed up with my mount's declination axis? 


I am using a 1200GTO with the GTOCP4 controller and the latest versions of APCC, the ASCOM driver and handset firmware.


Thanks,

Kerry



APPM Run Complete Pointing Spectacular

BigE Astro
 

Most of the time people are seeking help on this forum.  Me included.  However, I wanted to put in a plug for APCC and the APPM component.   I finished the run the other night and the pointing is spectacular.


Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

BigE Astro
 

Thanks Ray,


I just re-meshed the gears.  I have not looked through a telescope visually since about 2003, except for target practice with my zombie apocalypse protection devices at 100 plus yards .  I will seek  a bright star tonight with the ASI 1600 running in video mode and see if it is there "visually"


Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

Ray Gralak
 

Have you visually confirmed that the stiction is as bad as you think? You can confirm by looking through an eyepiece while moving Dec back and forth at 1x with the hand controller.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 2:20 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] AP 1600 Sticktion?



Jon,

I am ordering one from Amazon so I don't have to rely on my "feel"



Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

Jon <jmartin590@...>
 


They work well.

jon

On 1/21/2017 3:20 PM, bigeastro@... [ap-gto] wrote:
 
Jon,

I am ordering one from Amazon so I don't have to rely on my "feel"



Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

BigE Astro
 

Jon,

I am ordering one from Amazon so I don't have to rely on my "feel"


Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

BigE Astro
 

That is suspected for sure.  I did some searching prior to the post and noted that I have not meshed since I received the mount a year ago when I meshed it for the first time.  I am going to give it a shot.



Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

BigE Astro
 

I route through the mount and I don't think there are any snags.  I have some slack in the system.  I balance roughly by hand by grabbing the scope at each side and trying to make sure the moment arm distance is the same and just feel for balance.  I do this when horizontal parked in park 1.  My understanding is that the balance does not need to be spot on.

Thanks for the response.


Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

Craig Anderson
 

Could the DEC worm have come a bit out of mesh? 

On Jan 21, 2017, at 3:00 PM, Jon jmartin590@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:


for balancing, you can get a digital fish scale and see what the load is to to make the mount move one way and then the other from a counter weight horizontal position. When the load is the same, your in balance.  I have used this method on my 900 and it works well.

Jon


On 1/21/2017 11:44 AM, bigeastro@... [ap-gto] wrote:
 

I think I am experiencing sticktion sp? in my dec axis.   I recently upgraded the scope that was mounted on the mount and increased the load by about 20 pounds and purchased a 30 pound and 18 pound counterweights.


My total load of equipment has to be somewhere around 90 pounds or so.  This is well within the load rating.  I purchased more than needed counterweights, because I was already extended out on the counterweight shaft and wanted to bring things in a little.  


Anyways, my calibration in PHD2 in RA looks good but in Dec it takes a long time and it does not seem to move as fluidly as it used to.  It seems like I am getting bad calibration and there is an error message that the calibration is not what is expected. My guiding seems to have suffered a bit also.


I think I have it balanced, but it is hard to do since the mount is kind of rigid.  


Any ideas on how to remedy?


Thanks 





Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

Jon <jmartin590@...>
 

for balancing, you can get a digital fish scale and see what the load is to to make the mount move one way and then the other from a counter weight horizontal position. When the load is the same, your in balance.  I have used this method on my 900 and it works well.

Jon


On 1/21/2017 11:44 AM, bigeastro@... [ap-gto] wrote:
 

I think I am experiencing sticktion sp? in my dec axis.   I recently upgraded the scope that was mounted on the mount and increased the load by about 20 pounds and purchased a 30 pound and 18 pound counterweights.


My total load of equipment has to be somewhere around 90 pounds or so.  This is well within the load rating.  I purchased more than needed counterweights, because I was already extended out on the counterweight shaft and wanted to bring things in a little.  


Anyways, my calibration in PHD2 in RA looks good but in Dec it takes a long time and it does not seem to move as fluidly as it used to.  It seems like I am getting bad calibration and there is an error message that the calibration is not what is expected. My guiding seems to have suffered a bit also.


I think I have it balanced, but it is hard to do since the mount is kind of rigid.  


Any ideas on how to remedy?


Thanks 



Re: Cable and Systems Management

Christopher Erickson
 

I created a Photos folder called "Christopher Erickson" and put a number of AP-related pics init.  Several of them show my modified USB3 hub with PowerPole ports on the side, attached to my Mach1.
 
Image 20160207_233529 and 20160207_233647 show the modified hub.
 
There also some pics of the modifications I made to my 900GTO so it could go down to about 16 degrees North latitude so I could use it here in Hawaii without resorting to the Hi/Lo latitude wedge.  And of my modifications to improve motor cable protections at low latitudes, and the addition of a compass and level to the tripod. 
 
I also tossed in some pics of the Christens vacationing in Hawaii and exploring Tucson.
 
And some Barrow Venus Transit pics and some general Hawaii shots, just for fun.
 
 
Christopher Erickson
Consulting Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
 



From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 6:41 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Cable and Systems Management

Christopher,

The pic did not make it through...

Michael

At 07:43 PM 1/20/2017, you wrote:


I took a small 12V, USB3 hub that had enough room to mount a 4-port
PowerPole panel in it's side. I beefed-up the 12V power to the hub and also
added a few more filter caps to the USB electronics. That gets me down to
two cables through my Mach1. USB3 and 12VDC. Before I added the extra
filter caps, cycling on the camera's Peltier cooler would reboot the USB3
hub.

I attached a pic, if it comes through.


Christopher Erickson
Consulting Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com

_____

From: ap-gto@... [ mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 5:48 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Cable and Systems Management

With the rapid growth of computer-aided astronomy - multi-camera Imaging,
USB hubs, mount controllers, guiding, focusing, anti-dew systems, modeling
and pointing etc - the complexity of managing all the systems and
connections to what is a moving system has also grown. The thru-the-mount
design of the new AP mounts was a great improvement and its's really helped
with my 1100. However it is still difficult to Quickly reconfigure your
system and I have started to see clever folks address this by moving more of
their electronics like signal and power hubs "above the mount" I'd call it.

Along these lines, I was thinking of adding a plate on top of the telescope
rings and mounting my Rigrunner, USB hub, and Dew controller on the plate.
Then I would run only one power line and one USB cable thru the mount to the
Rigrunner and USB hub respectively. From there I'd run short connections to
the hardware.

I'd like others thoughts on this, especially from those who have tried
something like this, and how it's worked out? Pictures of your Systems would
be welcome!

Thanks!

Wayne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

Christopher Erickson
 

How are you balancing your DEC axis?
 
How are you routing your cables?
 
 
Christopher Erickson
Consulting Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
 



From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 8:45 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] AP 1600 Sticktion?

I think I am experiencing sticktion sp? in my dec axis.   I recently upgraded the scope that was mounted on the mount and increased the load by about 20 pounds and purchased a 30 pound and 18 pound counterweights.


My total load of equipment has to be somewhere around 90 pounds or so.  This is well within the load rating.  I purchased more than needed counterweights, because I was already extended out on the counterweight shaft and wanted to bring things in a little.  


Anyways, my calibration in PHD2 in RA looks good but in Dec it takes a long time and it does not seem to move as fluidly as it used to.  It seems like I am getting bad calibration and there is an error message that the calibration is not what is expected. My guiding seems to have suffered a bit also.


I think I have it balanced, but it is hard to do since the mount is kind of rigid.  


Any ideas on how to remedy?


Thanks 


Re: AP 1600 Sticktion?

Joe Zeglinski
 

Hi,
 
    I would think that the “ammeter” current measuring procedure used by many for balancing the axes should work – no matter the stiction.
There are two ways of balancing an axle – one is to unlock one axle set of clutches, so the axis rotates freely. The other is in a normal operating state, clutches locked, and only the overall effect on CPx current load is measured.
 
    While axle (flat clutch plugs) stiction makes it much more difficult to balance cwts. even with the clutches fully released, and the load is sluggish to tip one way or the other, measuring the current to the CPx controller provides an accurate measure of imbalance, when both sides of the pier are compared. Of course, balancing would be far easier, if the axles were buttery smooth when their locks were released, but this usually degrades with time – especially with years of (user) over-tightened, rarely released and “mushroom-flattening”  clutch plugs,  on the older mounts.
 
    The fact that the axes are free to rotate has nothing to do with the actual final effect – the load imbalance imposed on the worm and worm wheel. That is what you actually are trying to “unload”, and the ammeter should give a reasonably good indication of which pier side the scope is unbalanced on – even with the axle clutches fully locked.
 
    The current draw measuring method not only works for balancing the RA axis, but also when stationary, should work equally well for balancing the position of the scope on its saddle (or sliding its own counterweights). Just rotate the DEC and watch the ammeter readings swing, until the OTA is shifted, or balanced, in its saddle.
 
    I wonder if future CPx’s might have two tiny socket holes and DC circuit break sockets, tapping into the incoming power line at the side, for a user’s ammeter probes to enter the DC power circuit, providing a much more convenient way of balancing the axes. That way, a CPx wouldn’t even have to actually have its own moving coil ammeter gauge built-in, but provides a convenient quick method, using the owner’s own meter.
 
Joe
 

From: bigeastro@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2017 1:44 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] AP 1600 Sticktion?
 


I think I am experiencing sticktion sp? in my dec axis.   I recently upgraded the scope that was mounted on the mount and increased the load by about 20 pounds and purchased a 30 pound and 18 pound counterweights.


My total load of equipment has to be somewhere around 90 pounds or so.  This is well within the load rating.  I purchased more than needed counterweights, because I was already extended out on the counterweight shaft and wanted to bring things in a little. 


Anyways, my calibration in PHD2 in RA looks good but in Dec it takes a long time and it does not seem to move as fluidly as it used to.  It seems like I am getting bad calibration and there is an error message that the calibration is not what is expected. My guiding seems to have suffered a bit also.


I think I have it balanced, but it is hard to do since the mount is kind of rigid. 


Any ideas on how to remedy?


Thanks


AP 1600 Sticktion?

BigE Astro
 

I think I am experiencing sticktion sp? in my dec axis.   I recently upgraded the scope that was mounted on the mount and increased the load by about 20 pounds and purchased a 30 pound and 18 pound counterweights.


My total load of equipment has to be somewhere around 90 pounds or so.  This is well within the load rating.  I purchased more than needed counterweights, because I was already extended out on the counterweight shaft and wanted to bring things in a little.  


Anyways, my calibration in PHD2 in RA looks good but in Dec it takes a long time and it does not seem to move as fluidly as it used to.  It seems like I am getting bad calibration and there is an error message that the calibration is not what is expected. My guiding seems to have suffered a bit also.


I think I have it balanced, but it is hard to do since the mount is kind of rigid.  


Any ideas on how to remedy?


Thanks 


Re: Cable and Systems Management

Michael Turner
 

Christopher,

The pic did not make it through...

Michael


At 07:43 PM 1/20/2017, you wrote:
 

I took a small 12V, USB3 hub that had enough room to mount a 4-port
PowerPole panel in it's side. I beefed-up the 12V power to the hub and also
added a few more filter caps to the USB electronics. That gets me down to
two cables through my Mach1. USB3 and 12VDC. Before I added the extra
filter caps, cycling on the camera's Peltier cooler would reboot the USB3
hub.

I attached a pic, if it comes through.


Christopher Erickson
Consulting Engineer
Summit Kinetics
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com

_____

From: ap-gto@... [ mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 5:48 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] Cable and Systems Management

With the rapid growth of computer-aided astronomy - multi-camera Imaging,
USB hubs, mount controllers, guiding, focusing, anti-dew systems, modeling
and pointing etc - the complexity of managing all the systems and
connections to what is a moving system has also grown. The thru-the-mount
design of the new AP mounts was a great improvement and its's really helped
with my 1100. However it is still difficult to Quickly reconfigure your
system and I have started to see clever folks address this by moving more of
their electronics like signal and power hubs "above the mount" I'd call it.

Along these lines, I was thinking of adding a plate on top of the telescope
rings and mounting my Rigrunner, USB hub, and Dew controller on the plate.
Then I would run only one power line and one USB cable thru the mount to the
Rigrunner and USB hub respectively. From there I'd run short connections to
the hardware.

I'd like others thoughts on this, especially from those who have tried
something like this, and how it's worked out? Pictures of your Systems would
be welcome!

Thanks!

Wayne

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Re: Cable and Systems Management

D Sidote <dsidote@...>
 

Just out of curiosity, why wouldn't making a 4-way pigtail with power poles be an option? You would still have one cable though the mount for power and not have the additional weight of the rig runner mounted on top of the scope.

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 10:41 PM, Don Anderson jockey_ca@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:
 

David
Add to the wish list to be able to remotely switch each of the USB ports on or off via a windows software app
 
Don Anderson



From: "David phrosty5@... [ap-gto]" <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2017 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Cable and Systems Management

 
Joe,

I have looked at these.  Actually I have a different Kendrick box.  They work great, but are way too bulky to mount on top of a mount/scope, and they don’t have enough power ports for all my devices.  The Blue Astro Hub was a PCB solution that would have been small.  Still looking for someone to implement a PCB based solution for this.  I’ve seen one device that comes close, but the individual Powerpole circuits are not individually protected and isolated from each other.  I’m afraid of power spikes from dew heaters, pelters, etc. causing potential issues with a camera if using this.  http://www.modernroboticsinc.com/core-power-distribution-module-3  Closest thing I’ve found to what I’m looking for though.

Would love to see some astro manufacturer put something like this into a low profile saddle.  6 or 7 power ports on one side, 7 USB ports on the other side.  Then you’d only have two cables running through the mount.

David







On Jan 20, 2017, at 1:08 AM, 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:


David,
 
    Have a look at the KENDRICK all-in-one power boxes. However, it doesn’t have “remote controlled” power option yet.
I think it is an interesting integration of PowerPole box and USB, and cigarette lighter plugs. Even has an option for one of the sockets to be an AP mount 15 vdc power. Don’t know if it is bulkier than the “Blue Astro Hub” intended product – you decide.
 
 
HTH
Joe
 
 
From: David phrosty5@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 11:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Cable and Systems Management
 


Ive tried the same thing as well with a top plate, Powerpole box and USB hub from Startech.  It seems to work well, but is a much larger setup than should be necessary.  I’m still surprised, with tech advancing as fast as it has, that no one has come up with a great solution for a small, compact setup for power and data connections like the Blue Astro Hub that was in the works before Per passed away this past summer.  That was the most compact setup I’ve seen yet for remotely controlled power and USB connections, but its currently unavailable.  I am longing for a solution like this in one SMALL device or saddle.  Rig runners work great but are three times larger than they need to be for astro work and power requirements.  -sigh- 
 
David