Date   

Pointing model before or after AE?

Rob Hawley
 

I am currently running the pointing model for my 1100AE. The AE is not currently enabled. I was planning to enable AE once the pointing model is turned on.

After thinking about this some more I wonder if the model for pointing and tracking correction should be built with AE enabled.

Which is the correct order?


Rob Hawley
www.robhawley.net


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Lloyd Smith
 

I thought you wanted to know precisely what direction the scope was pointed in the sky.

RA is along the X (long dimension) of the image


Lunar images with 175EDF scope by Dave Jurasevich

Roland Christen
 

Hi Gang,
I wanted to share with you this lunar image I took with my AP 175/2x Televue Powermate (f/16) and Point Grey Grasshopper 2 GigE video camera last month at Palomar Mountain.  The seeing wasn’t quite good that night but I was able to tease out some surface details.
Ptolemaeus Region (no names):  http://tinyurl.com/oxt6jhz
Ptolemaeus Region (with names):  http://tinyurl.com/pu6rxoy
Best Regards,
Dave


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Roland Christen
 

Sorry, no comprehend. Which way is RA in that frame?
 
Rolando
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lloyd Smith sixburg@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2015 6:18 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Spurious guider move command?



Direction...the direction of the line traced by the star is 28 degrees relative to the image frame and 282 degrees relative to the sky
Protrack is not involved as has already been pointed out.  The CCDAP log is not revealing but two from this session can be seen here:  http://1drv.ms/1K7xkZH). 
I’m using guider relays as this is the only way I’ve found to get guiding to work both on both sides of the meridian while in a CCDAP-controlled session The system is  a Mach1 + FSQ (native) + MDL 5.24 + CCDAP + Lodestar (2x2) + Takometer + APCC.  In this session I let MDL select the guide star selection since CCDAP does not selection well  (in my experience and on my system).  When I run the guider unbinned CCDAP selects the guide star.  I tried with PEM on and off with the same results.  < /SPAN>
MDL calibration and CCDAP initialization are always performed 5 degrees east of the meridian.  Both complete successfully.  Track box is 32x32.  All settings in Maxim are CCDAP-appropriate (like “Do not change” under advanced guider settings, and no check for pier flip or reversing, for example).  Max move is 0. 315 and min move is 0.05 as suggest by CCDAP’s calculator.  The Lodestar is fully calibrated (I have two libraries for binned and unbinned and had the right one in place last night).  The Lodestar image is pretty normal until I watch the guide star fly away.  No bright edges or extraneous pixels.  That being said, I ordered a new one to get away from that flimsy cable.  The cables are in a strain-relieved loop.&nbs p; The system(s) is remote so we’ve gotten pretty good at making sure stuff doesn’t fall apart. 
This system has been reliable as currently set up for ~3 years.  The last time I saw this behavior I thought I solved it with a gear re-mesh;  however, Howard tells me this appears to be a “commanded” move as opposed to something cause by mechanical error.  Perhaps my earlier fix was just happenstance.  It’s interesting to note the trail is very close to the same length on either side of the star.  I wonder if this move was one continuous  move or were there two (or more) divergent moves?
Next session I’ll go very minimal…just Maxim and AP v2.  All other software in the stack will be sidelined:  APCC, FocusMax, Robofocus, Takometer. 
Lloyd L. Smith
678.427.6341



Re: Spurious guider move command?

Woody Schlom <woody@...>
 

The new Lodestar X2 is much nicer.  It’s got a regular RJ-11/12 modular connector.  You can now make your own cables – and they don’t have this connection problem the old ones had.

 

Woody

 

 

Yes, the Lodestar cable is super sensitive. I looped mine up and back, then tied it with a tiewrap to the Lodestar body before descending down to the PC. Even then it is touchy, if you yank on it even slightly it loses contact.

 

Roland

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ghsmith45@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2015 4:00 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Spurious guider move command?



I had something similar a while ago. Nice guiding for a few minutes, then a sudden blip. Replacing the usb cable from the lodestar fixed the problem.

Geoff

 


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Lloyd Smith
 

Direction...the direction of the line traced by the star is 28 degrees relative to the image frame and 282 degrees relative to the sky

Protrack is not involved as has already been pointed out.  The CCDAP log is not revealing but two from this session can be seen here:  http://1drv.ms/1K7xkZH). 

I’m using guider relays as this is the only way I’ve found to get guiding to work both on both sides of the meridian while in a CCDAP-controlled session The system is  a Mach1 + FSQ (native) + MDL 5.24 + CCDAP + Lodestar (2x2) + Takometer + APCC.  In this session I let MDL select the guide star selection since CCDAP does not selection well  (in my experience and on my system).  When I run the guider unbinned CCDAP selects the guide star.  I tried with PEM on and off with the same results. 

MDL calibration and CCDAP initialization are always performed 5 degrees east of the meridian.  Both complete successfully.  Track box is 32x32.  All settings in Maxim are CCDAP-appropriate (like “Do not change” under advanced guider settings, and no check for pier flip or reversing, for example).  Max move is 0.315 and min move is 0.05 as suggest by CCDAP’s calculator.  The Lodestar is fully calibrated (I have two libraries for binned and unbinned and had the right one in place last night).  The Lodestar image is pretty normal until I watch the guide star fly away.  No bright edges or extraneous pixels.  That being said, I ordered a new one to get away from that flimsy cable.  The cables are in a strain-relieved loop.  The system(s) is remote so we’ve gotten pretty good at making sure stuff doesn’t fall apart. 

This system has been reliable as currently set up for ~3 years.  The last time I saw this behavior I thought I solved it with a gear re-mesh;  however, Howard tells me this appears to be a “commanded” move as opposed to something cause by mechanical error.  Perhaps my earlier fix was just happenstance.  It’s interesting to note the trail is very close to the same length on either side of the star.  I wonder if this move was one continuous  move or were there two (or more) divergent moves?

Next session I’ll go very minimal…just Maxim and AP v2.  All other software in the stack will be sidelined:  APCC, FocusMax, Robofocus, Takometer. 

Lloyd L. Smith

678.427.6341

sixburg@...

www.deepskywest.com

www.remotetelescopes.comwww.astrobin.com/users/sixburg


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Greg Bradley
 

OK thanks for that. I'll use those settings next clear night.


Cheers.


Greg.


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Roland Christen
 

I don't use the Sky X to run my autoguider. I use MaximDL so I'm not familiar with your method.
 
Rolando
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: bradgregley10@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2015 5:45 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Spurious guider move command?



When I use Sky X and run AP1600 as Ascom mount and set the Ascom  driver to Tele API it uses the AP V2 driver.

When I use Sky X to run the autoguider it gives a few options as to which method - camera relays, pulse guiding and direct guide (Software Bisque).

I chose pulse guide as I assume its compatible with the AP driver. The AP CD has the Pulse guiding program from Ray.

Greg.



Re: Spurious guider move command?

Dave Goodyear <dave@...>
 

Why do you use/choose tele API? 

 

Dave

 

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 3:45 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Spurious guider move command?

 

 

When I use Sky X and run AP1600 as Ascom mount and set the Ascom  driver to Tele API it uses the AP V2 driver.

 

When I use Sky X to run the autoguider it gives a few options as to which method - camera relays, pulse guiding and direct guide (Software Bisque).

 

I chose pulse guide as I assume its compatible with the AP driver. The AP CD has the Pulse guiding program from Ray.

 

Greg.


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Greg Bradley
 

Oh I see. Yes, thanks. Small corrections would be useful in good seeing without chasing the seeing.


Greg.


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Greg Bradley
 

When I use Sky X and run AP1600 as Ascom mount and set the Ascom  driver to Tele API it uses the AP V2 driver.


When I use Sky X to run the autoguider it gives a few options as to which method - camera relays, pulse guiding and direct guide (Software Bisque).


I chose pulse guide as I assume its compatible with the AP driver. The AP CD has the Pulse guiding program from Ray.


Greg.


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Roland Christen
 

There is no difference between using the guider port or software guiding. Use the same settings.
 
Don't know what you mean by pulse guiding.
 
Rolando
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: bradgregley10@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2015 5:34 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Spurious guider move command?



Sorry, another question.

These guide settings and min/max move are for pulse guiding? I see the CCDware calculator gives completely different results for direct guide versus relays. I am using pulse guide in Sky X. I am not sure if this is similar to Software Bisques direct guide or not.

Greg.



Re: Spurious guider move command?

Roland Christen
 

Just the opposite.
 
Rolando
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: bradgregley10@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2015 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Spurious guider move command?



With the minimum move of .01 to .03 depending on seeing that would be .03 for good seeing and .01 for poor seeing?

Guide rate is 1.0X?

Greg.



Re: Spurious guider move command?

Greg Bradley
 

Sorry, another question.


These guide settings and min/max move are for pulse guiding? I see the CCDware calculator gives completely different results for direct guide versus relays. I am using pulse guide in Sky X. I am not sure if this is similar to Software Bisques direct guide or not.


Greg.


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Greg Bradley
 

With the minimum move of .01 to .03 depending on seeing that would be .03 for good seeing and .01 for poor seeing?


Guide rate is 1.0X?


Greg.


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Greg Bradley
 

Well that is gold - thank you.


Greg.


Re: Spurious guider move command?

Roland Christen
 

So with guiding a Honders on an AP1600 what would you recommend for guide exposure lengths, backlash, aggressiveness setting and min max settings?
 
Min setting of 0.01 to 0.03 depending on how well polar aligned you are and the steadiness of the sky.
 
Forgot to add max Move of 0.3 to 0.5 sec, backlash setting = 0, guide exposure lengths of 2 to 8 seconds. Agressiveness depends on your seeing, up to 10 in pristine seeing conditions, down to 6 in poor seeing.
 
Rolando
 
-----Original Message-----
From: chris1011@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2015 5:05 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Spurious guider move command?



 
Response below:

Hi Rolando. I was surprised by your max move settings. I have been using .01 min and 3.0 max and when I used the CCDware min/max calculator I got .5min and 2 max.
 
0.5 min is wrong. 0.5 means that the guide star can move 7.5 arc sec (0.5x15=7.5) before a guide correction is sent to the mount Clearly wrong. 2 Max means that you are allowing the mount to go 30 arc sec correction, which is wildly excessive. Why would you ever want any software to send such a huge correction signal to the mount?

So with guiding a Honders on an AP1600 what would you recommend for guide exposure lengths, backlash, aggressiveness setting and min max settings?
 
Min setting of 0.01 to 0.03 depending on how well polar aligned you are and the steadiness of the sky.

If you make your guide frame smallish does that mean you do shorter calibration times for the autoguider?
 
Small guider frame has zero to do with calibration. They are not related.

Is it best practice to calibrate near the meridian and does mean you need to reverse X commands after a meridian flip if you do that?
 
Meridian flip always requires checking the reversing box. Unless you go thru the trouble of re-calibrating on the other side.

Greg.





Re: Spurious guider move command?

Roland Christen
 

 
Response below:

Hi Rolando. I was surprised by your max move settings. I have been using .01 min and 3.0 max and when I used the CCDware min/max calculator I got .5min and 2 max.
 
0.5 min is wrong. 0.5 means that the guide star can move 7.5 arc sec (0.5x15=7.5) before a guide correction is sent to the mount Clearly wrong. 2 Max means that you are allowing the mount to go 30 arc sec correction, which is wildly excessive. Why would you ever want any software to send such a huge correction signal to the mount?

So with guiding a Honders on an AP1600 what would you recommend for guide exposure lengths, backlash, aggressiveness setting and min max settings?
 
Min setting of 0.01 to 0.03 depending on how well polar aligned you are and the steadiness of the sky.

If you make your guide frame smallish does that mean you do shorter calibration times for the autoguider?
 
Small guider frame has zero to do with calibration. They are not related.

Is it best practice to calibrate near the meridian and does mean you need to reverse X commands after a meridian flip if you do that?
 
Meridian flip always requires checking the reversing box. Unless you go thru the trouble of re-calibrating on the other side.

Greg.



Re: Spurious guider move command?

Roland Christen
 

Yes, the Lodestar cable is super sensitive. I looped mine up and back, then tied it with a tiewrap to the Lodestar body before descending down to the PC. Even then it is touchy, if you yank on it even slightly it loses contact.
 
Roland
 
 

-----Original Message-----
From: ghsmith45@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2015 4:00 pm
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Spurious guider move command?



I had something similar a while ago. Nice guiding for a few minutes, then a sudden blip. Replacing the usb cable from the lodestar fixed the problem.
Geoff



Re: Spurious guider move command?

Mlooker
 

Correct!!

Tom

On 8/7/2015 2:16 PM, Dave Goodyear dave@... [ap-gto] wrote:
I believe protrack does not work with non-bisque mounts.