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Re: An easier Pasillx N & S Polar Alignment method
Joe Zeglinski
Sorry to pi** you off, Bill, but I figured somebody would state the obvious without much contemplation.
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To answer the obvious, as a professional engineer, I spent quite some time - months - planning, measuring and testing the best height to always set my Losmandy tripod, to suit the OTA placement procedure. The main concern was to fix the height "precisely" so that the AP-900 saddle would be no higher than MY shoulder height when I carried the OTA into position. I figured this would avoid back injury, which I have a pretty good start on already. So ... the AP-900 must be at the chosen height. Short of a hoop toss of the OTA into the saddle, your taller pier idea is inappropriate. That being the case, this makes the polar scope position difficult, but not impossible to use - physically. However, my being limited to suburb use, the polar scope view is fairly dim. I did get all three stars aligned, but it takes more kneeling position time than I would like - O.K. on grass, but snow makes things uncomfortable. As you propose, I could hire somebody to do it - I suppose the price of the equipment implies that hiring a servant isn't a big deal ... for some. As for sticking to visual - how does that solve the PAS use problem? Of course, using the PAS is only the first setup step, and I do use Roland's procedure to get final alignment. However, it sure would be nice to make good, BUT "easier" use of the PAS. Thanks for your practical suggestions, Bill. What else 'ya got? Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "William R. Mattil" <wrmattil@...> To: <ap-gto@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:02 PM Subject: Re: [ap-gto] An easier Pasillx N & S Polar Alignment method Sure,
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Re: An easier Pasillx N & S Polar Alignment method
Richard Crisp
hey that's a cool idea Hank!
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I have a GLP and that's a great use for it. I'll try it next time I set up at the ranch! rdc
----- Original Message -----
From: Hank Sielski To: ap-gto@... Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:28 PM Subject: Re: [ap-gto] An easier Pasillx N & S Polar Alignment method Joseph, Joking aside, a taller pier or using an astrochair to sit lower might help. If you move around in latitude a bit like I do (between northern and southern California), or find that your altitude (or azimuth) is way off for some reason, I find that shooting a green laser up through the PAS helps to get Polaris close to the center of the FOV of the PAS without kneeling/bending. After that, then you still need to look through the PAS to get Polaris moved to the offset area and align the other two stars. Even if you can't do this later part (bright skies, or whatever) , you still might be able to use the meridan delay or two star method (documented in the manual) to get even closer. After that, you can do a drift alignment, if you need to, but this isn't necessary if you're only going visual. Beyond that, I think you'll have to resort to something with software on a PC and a camera to zero in your polar alignment (Pulseguide, Pole-Align_Max, etc. lots of choices here). The idea to use to hook up a guide camera to use as a video finder or something seems interesting...let us know if you get something working. Hank On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 3:02 PM, William R. Mattil <wrmattil@...>wrote: > Joseph Zeglinski wrote: > > [snip] > > > > Comments, please? > > > > > > > > > Sure, > > Get a taller pier so you don't have kneel down. > > Hire somebody to do it for you > > Stick to visual > > Buy a Hubble book instead of doing astrophotography. > > Bill > >
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Re: An easier Pasillx N & S Polar Alignment method
Ladislav Nemec <nemecl@...>
Bit naughty?
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-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of William R. Mattil Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:03 PM To: ap-gto@... Subject: Re: [ap-gto] An easier Pasillx N & S Polar Alignment method Joseph Zeglinski wrote: [snip]Sure, Get a taller pier so you don't have kneel down. Hire somebody to do it for you Stick to visual Buy a Hubble book instead of doing astrophotography. Bill
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Re: An easier Pasillx N & S Polar Alignment method
Hank Sielski
Joseph,
Joking aside, a taller pier or using an astrochair to sit lower might help. If you move around in latitude a bit like I do (between northern and southern California), or find that your altitude (or azimuth) is way off for some reason, I find that shooting a green laser up through the PAS helps to get Polaris close to the center of the FOV of the PAS without kneeling/bending. After that, then you still need to look through the PAS to get Polaris moved to the offset area and align the other two stars. Even if you can't do this later part (bright skies, or whatever) , you still might be able to use the meridan delay or two star method (documented in the manual) to get even closer. After that, you can do a drift alignment, if you need to, but this isn't necessary if you're only going visual. Beyond that, I think you'll have to resort to something with software on a PC and a camera to zero in your polar alignment (Pulseguide, Pole-Align_Max, etc. lots of choices here). The idea to use to hook up a guide camera to use as a video finder or something seems interesting...let us know if you get something working. Hank On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 3:02 PM, William R. Mattil <wrmattil@...>wrote: Joseph Zeglinski wrote:[snip]Sure,
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Re: An easier Pasillx N & S Polar Alignment method
William R. Mattil <wrmattil@...>
Joseph Zeglinski wrote:
[snip]Sure, Get a taller pier so you don't have kneel down. Hire somebody to do it for you Stick to visual Buy a Hubble book instead of doing astrophotography. Bill
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An easier Pasillx N & S Polar Alignment method
Joe Zeglinski
Hi,
As winter will too soon be here, I am NOT looking forward to having to shovel a trench in the snow to kneel into, in order to use the polar scope. It was awkward enough in summer (at 45 deg N). I wonder if anyone has tried any other way of centering Polaris through the PAS. One possibility is to perhaps modify a diagonal, with a Barlow relay lens, to bring the alignment image to a more comfortable standing view position. This would be a great "optical" option for AP to produce for the PAS. Perhaps a much better method might be to temporarily plug a standard "guider head", such as your (SBIG RGH, Orion autoguider, or Trifid autoguider), over the PAS eyepiece, and view the polar alignment on the laptop screen. In many cases, these guide heads are just waiting to start use as guiders, so perhaps they can also serve double duty as a PAS camera. An additional advantage, especially at light polluted sites, is that the guider will cut through the haze to bring out the other two dim reference stars, barely visible on the reticle right now. I suppose this will be a real bonus for south pole PAS alignment. In that case, it should be possible to program (or draw) a laptop screen overlay/template, with a south pole centre point, using the other reference stars. Has anyone tried the latter method? I wonder if there might be some issue with the focus reaching the guider chip - although, with the camera (or star diagonal) 1.25" eyepiece tube bottomed "overtop" of the PAS eyepiece, that may not be a problem. You still would need to make an eyepiece adapter from 1.25" down to the much smaller PAS eyepiece diameter, with a limiting collar (set screw ring), to prevent bottoming of the PAS eyepiece onto the chip. Comments, please? Thanks Joe
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Re: question re a preplanned observing session...
ayiomamitis
Howard,
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This is awesome! Will this feature be replacing an existing list or is it simply an addition? Anyway, I would certainly be interested in any further details you may have available. Anthony.
--- In ap-gto@..., "Howard" <howard@...> wrote:
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Re: question re a preplanned observing session...
Hank Sielski
Phil,
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While I and others are looking forward to the new version (4.20) of the keypad software, as well as the new AP Control Center, for now, I want to second Eric's recommendation of AstroPlanner. In its current form, it has tremendous capabilities. In addition to the pre-planned observing list, it has more than 125 catalogues that you can download and use with your studies, so you may not have to id your targets with just RA and Dec. You can download a free trial version of 1.6.1 (no telescope control in the free version, I think, though), but if you decide to buy and test out the telescope control, it doesn't cost much ($35, I think). And if you register now, I think you'll get a free upgrade to the forthcoming V2 (almost in beta now), which promises to be even better...and as Eric says, Paul Rodman's support is right up there with AP's... Good luck, Hank
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 9:48 AM, Eric Baumgartner <malkasten@...>wrote:
Hi, Phil:
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Re: question re a preplanned observing session...
Hi, Phil:
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You might want to acquaint yourself with Paul Rodman's AstroPlanner (see <http://www.ilangainc.com/astroplanner>). It is an observing planning and logging application with lots of functionality, including the capacity to send goto commands to A-P GTO mounts. You could easily compile an observing plan for your variable star targets on a given night, sort them by virtually any criterion (culmination time, RA, constellation, etc.), and then slew to each object from within the application. Paul Rodman is the Roland Christen of observing software, in that he constantly monitors the AstroPlanner users group and responds to questions, problems, or concerns nearly instantly and with great patience. I can't recommend the application more highly. (Oh, yes, it also runs on both Mac and Windows computers!) Hope this helps, Eric Baumgartner Redding, CT
On 9/17/08 10:53 AM, "chris1011@..." <chris1011@...> wrote:
In a message dated 9/17/2008 6:47:14 AM Central Daylight Time,
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Re: question re a preplanned observing session...
The next full version of the keypad firmware, v.4.20 will also have a
"bookmarking" feature that will allow up to 50 objects or custom RA / Dec coordinates to be assembled into a list like you want. This would eliminate the need for an external computer. Contact me at A-P for more information. Mag. 7 skies! Howard Hedlund Astro-Physics, Inc. 815-282-1513 ________________________________ From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of philipdombrowski Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:47 AM To: ap-gto@... Subject: [ap-gto] question re a preplanned observing session... Dear Howard, Roland & any group member that knows the answer to my question.... If I am doing a nightly sequence of variable star observations is there a way to have a preplanned (pre-programmed) sequence of targets so that I can simply go from one star to the next without having to enter the RA & DEC of each target star? On any given night I may want to do 15 variable stars and it would be most desirable to go from one star to the next without the re entering of coordinates. Earlier Vstar observers would likely tell me that a "good" observer would just know how to get from one star to the next from my knowledge of the night sky! However, I would like to take advantage of the AP1200's full capabilities. Many of my target stars are in fields were I am looking for a target that my only be 12th mag or fainter. A feature that may already be on the AP1200 that I am unaware of would be rather "cushy". I very much appreciate your response. Phil Dombrowski Glastonbury, CT
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Re: question re a preplanned observing session...
Mark Galiyano Jr <mgjr@...>
Bob Denny's ACP is an automated imaging system. I think Starry Night allows
the creation of observing lists that could be prepared ahead of time, and selected and slewed to during the observing session. Mark _____ From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of chris1011@... Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:53 AM To: ap-gto@... Subject: Re: [ap-gto] question re a preplanned observing session... In a message dated 9/17/2008 6:47:14 AM Central Daylight Time, phil.dombrowski@ <mailto:phil.dombrowski%40cox.net> cox.net writes: Dear Howard, Roland & any group member that knows the answer to myThere is no function like that in the AP servo or keypad. However, what you are describing is a scripting program. I know Bob Denny sells one. You will need a laptop to run a scripting program. Anyone out there have any other software recommendations? Rolando ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelis <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> t.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
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Re: question re a preplanned observing session...
Dean S
Hi Phil,
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Have you considered an automation program like CCDCommander? It is very easy to learn, will do multiple targets, focus with Focusmax, plate solve, etc. I had it doing that my first night and got all objects in the center of the CCD. The program itself is not expensive by todays standards, and Matt offers a free trial. Dean
----- Original Message -----
From: "philipdombrowski" <phil.dombrowski@...> To: <ap-gto@...> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 7:46 AM Subject: [ap-gto] question re a preplanned observing session... Dear Howard, Roland & any group member that knows the answer to my
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question re a preplanned observing session...
philipdombrowski <phil.dombrowski@...>
Dear Howard, Roland & any group member that knows the answer to my
question.... If I am doing a nightly sequence of variable star observations is there a way to have a preplanned (pre-programmed) sequence of targets so that I can simply go from one star to the next without having to enter the RA & DEC of each target star? On any given night I may want to do 15 variable stars and it would be most desirable to go from one star to the next without the re entering of coordinates. Earlier Vstar observers would likely tell me that a "good" observer would just know how to get from one star to the next from my knowledge of the night sky! However, I would like to take advantage of the AP1200's full capabilities. Many of my target stars are in fields were I am looking for a target that my only be 12th mag or fainter. A feature that may already be on the AP1200 that I am unaware of would be rather "cushy". I very much appreciate your response. Phil Dombrowski Glastonbury, CT
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Re: question re a preplanned observing session...
Roland Christen
Digital Sky Voice, which we used to provide with our mounts, also has a
planned observing feature. Rolando ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
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Re: question re a preplanned observing session...
Roland Christen
In a message dated 9/17/2008 6:47:14 AM Central Daylight Time,
phil.dombrowski@... writes: Dear Howard, Roland & any group member that knows the answer to myThere is no function like that in the AP servo or keypad. However, what you are describing is a scripting program. I know Bob Denny sells one. You will need a laptop to run a scripting program. Anyone out there have any other software recommendations? Rolando ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
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Re: Wish List
Ladislav Nemec <nemecl@...>
Basically, the 'custom RA/Dec' is the same as the 'PC object'. Not surprised
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that the AP control is as good as the Gemini. Actually, there are situations where Gemini wants to additional align/sync to the WRONG object. Happened to me several time, one has to start from a scratch - the mapping of the skies become completely wrong (logically). LN
-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of chris1011@... Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 5:40 PM To: ap-gto@... Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Wish List In a message dated 9/16/2008 6:58:34 PM Central Daylight Time, nemecl@earthlink. <mailto:nemecl%40earthlink.net> net writes: BTW, the Gemni hand controller coexists happily with the planetariumthe program calling it a 'PC object' - its coordinates have to be communicatedBTW, the AP keypad aslo coexists happily with the planetarium program. It even syncs (or recals) with an object selected by the program, calling it a custom 'RA/Dec' - its coordinates also have to be communicated to the AP keypad after all. So, how does one do this? In the Objects Menu window, one presses RA/Dec=> This automatically uploads the present RA/Dec number to the keypad. To set the internal keypad to this new position, simply exit (press Menu), press bottom right hand button, then press Rcal. This sets the internal RA/Dec of the keypad to the same location as is on the computer screen. If the object is not in the center of the eyepiece or CCD image, you can center the object further using the direction buttons. Once it is centered, press Rcal again to define this new position as the original RA/Dec. You will see on the planetarium program that as you center the object in the eyepiece via the buttons, the cursor will move away from the object center on the screen, and as soon as you press Rcal, the cursor will move back to the center of the object on your planetarium screen. With this simple method you have essentially "Synced" the planetarium program, the mount internal position and where the scope is really pointing. The point of this is simple: if you want the keypad to do a recal, then you must set it up so that the last object in the keypad memory IS the one you are pointing to. If you point to something with a planetarium program, then the only way the keypad knows this is for it to monitor the position of the servo via the RA/DEC=> also known as the digital setting circle readout. Does this make sense? Rolando ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelis <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> t.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
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Re: Wish List
Ladislav Nemec <nemecl@...>
Thanks for your description. It saves some time for the 'poor relative'. I
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have to think how this relates to similar commands of my Gemini. As they say 'let me think'. Best, LN
-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of chris1011@... Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 5:12 PM To: ap-gto@... Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Wish List In a message dated 9/16/2008 6:58:34 PM Central Daylight Time, nemecl@earthlink. <mailto:nemecl%40earthlink.net> net writes: I have to learn (AP manuals are available online) what the differenceRcal allows you to update the present position to the RA/Dec coordinates that you wish this position to be, regardless of whether the telescope is on the proper side of the moutn or not. Sync is for initial setup where you place the scope on the opposite side of the mount where the object is (i.e. if the object is in the west, you place the scope on the east side). Sync therefore defines the proper relation ship of the scope and mount at initial setup. These two commands allow you subsequently to image past the meridian if you wish, with scope under the mount, so that you can do continuous tracking without having to flip the scope around. You can send the scope under the mount in the east with the object in the east, and then begin imaging the entire night without flip, until next morning when the object reaches the western horizon. Yes, it require just a tiny bit more intelligence on the part of the user versus some other systems, but I truly believe that all of our customers have more than enough grey matter to master this simple thing. We could have made the system easier, but this would have eliminated some neat features. Rolando ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelis <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> t.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
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Re: Wish List
Dick Steinberg
Not only does this make sense, but it answers the original request for
a way to put the keypad back in control after using a planetarium program slew. THANKS, Roland! Dick Steinberg --- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote: selected by the communicatedprogram calling it a 'PC object' - its coordinates have to be program. Itto Gemini for a slew, after all.BTW, the AP keypad aslo coexists happily with the planetarium even syncs (or recals) with an object selected by the program,calling it a custom 'RA/Dec' - its coordinates also have to be communicated tothe AP keypad after all.RA/Dec=> This automatically uploads the present RA/Dec number to the keypad.To set the internal keypad to this new position, simply exit (press Menu),press bottom right hand button, then press Rcal. This sets the internal RA/Dec ofthe keypad to the same location as is on the computer screen. If the object isnot in the center of the eyepiece or CCD image, you can center the objectfurther using the direction buttons. Once it is centered, press Rcal again todefine this new position as the original RA/Dec. You will see on the planetariumprogram that as you center the object in the eyepiece via the buttons, thecursor will move away from the object center on the screen, and as soon as youpress Rcal, the cursor will move back to the center of the object on yourplanetarium screen. With this simple method you have essentially "Synced" theplanetarium program, the mount internal position and where the scope is reallypointing. then you must set it up so that the last object in the keypad memory IS theone you are pointing to. If you point to something with a planetarium program,then the only way the keypad knows this is for it to monitor the position ofthe servo via the RA/DEC=> also known as the digital setting circle readout.
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Re: Wish List
Ladislav Nemec <nemecl@...>
Interesting. I am using TheSky6 exclusively with my Gemini for remote
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control and, as far as I can tell, it calculates meridian line correctly. No idea about the horizon, I do not want to have anything to do with horizon. I park through the ASCOM driver in the Gemini 'home' position also called CWD position (counter-weight down). In that position the Sun can never shine into the scope (due north at altitude 34 for my location). I think this is the safest parking position but this may be a matter of opinion. BTW, the Gemni hand controller coexists happily with the planetarium program, it even syncs (or additional aligns) with an object selected by the program calling it a 'PC object' - its coordinates have to be communicated to Gemini for a slew, after all. I have to learn (AP manuals are available online) what the difference between 'rcal' (recalibrate) and 'sync' for the AP mount is. Gemini is different - sync is sync (shifting the mapped coordinates without changing the model), 'additional align' is modifying the model to improve future pointing. Sorry for bringing the experiences of a 'poor relative' here. Just for the record, the bug in TheSky6 may have existed some time ago but I do not believe it does now. TheSky knows (it's a US law) when the switch from ST to DT takes place and adjusts, I believe, the value of the difference between local civil time and UTC. LN The current version of TheSky6 is 6.0.0.58
-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of chris1011@... Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:20 AM To: ap-gto@... Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Wish List In a message dated 9/16/2008 11:02:46 AM Central Daylight Time, dean@... <mailto:dean%40cwdi.com> writes: I suspect my problem is in the time settings now that you said park is inThe Sky6 parks it wrong because it does not account for daylight savings when it calculates the horizon and meridian lines. This is a bug in the program which should be fixed in the latest version of the program. Rolando ************** Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelis <http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014> t.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)
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Re: Where is the PEC stored?
PEC is stored in the GTOCPx control box. You can turn it on or off
from either the keypad or a PC, but it is stored and maintained in the GTO control box. Mag. 7 skies! Howard Hedlund Astro-Physics, Inc. 815-282-1513 ________________________________ From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of Christopher Vedeler L.Ac. Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 6:22 PM To: ap-gto@... Subject: [ap-gto] Where is the PEC stored? I trained my PEC of my AP900 GTO2 last night and was wondering where it is stored. Is it the hand controller or the GTO module? If my scope is controlled by a laptop and the handcontroller is not attached would it still be there to play back? Thanks! Christopher Vedeler
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