Date   

(No subject)

Pierre Henrotay
 

Hi Gerald,

I received with the printed manual a small sheet of paper with
title "Special Notice to Mach1GTO Owners".
This says that :
- The keypad is set to 1200GTO.
- The parameters for Mach1GTO, 900GTO and 1200GTO are all identical
and that either the 900 or 1200 setting will work fine.
- And finally: "do not, however, set the keypad to either 400 or 600E"


Pierre

--- In ap-gto@..., Gerald Sargent <sargentg@...> wrote:

My hand controller on my Mach! under mount selection lists
as options 400, 600, 900, 1200, but not Mach 1.
Which one should I select ?
Does it make a difference ?


Re: Autoguider correction frequency

Woodwind
 

David and Roy,

I think that you have answered my question about why the fast rates are available - the are to do with mirror corrections rather than mounts. This is similar to modern tank sights where stabilizers in the sight-head drive mirrors rather than the gun and then the sight is gated so that as the gun passes through the tolerance gate as it swings about in the turret and on the tank, it fires.

Anyway - thanks to all who have taken the time to go through this issue - it now makes a lot more sense.

Murray



"David B. Toth" <ve3gyq@...> wrote: At 10:05 PM 3/29/2008, Murray Hammick wrote:
>I hear what you say and do not doubt the veracity of your comments -
>and especially Roland's authority in this matter.
>
>That said - why does the Orion guide camera offer you a choice of
>exposure down to .02 sec ? Is it in fact not sending corrections
>after each exposure (assuming less than perfect tracking of course) ?
>
>Murray

Well, it may in fact offer you that choice, but it does not mean you
should do that .... There are MANY mounts that couldn't react that
often anyway ... I typically use 1-2 sec exposures with the guide
chip in my STL-11000 on my AP 7" f/7 on the Paramount ME ... in
hydrogen alpha, I have used guide star exposures of 45 seconds! You
have to view the whole thing as a SYSTEM and see how it relates to
your average seeing. My 1260 mm focal length is quite forgiving, and
the AP and Paramounts have quite good PEC and little or no backlash.
That coupled with good polar alignment allows you to guide less
aggressively. I've seen aggressive/frequent guiding produce inferior
results at times.

This is all quite different from trying to use the AO devices with
their rapid moving tilt mirrors. In those cases the mount gets
"bumped" very infrequently.

If you have followed threads like this before, you'll note that
Roland has advocated SMALL corrections and trying to always come in
from the same side. This helps you to avoid oscillating to and fro.

In the "old days", you had to master sitting at the guiding eyepiece.
Modern auto-guiding also requires that you pay your dues and work out
the parameters for your particular system. We can all offer opinions
and guidance, but in the end, YOU will be the expert with YOUR system.

Enjoy!

Dave


Re: Autoguider correction frequency

Woodwind
 

Kurt,

I do not have a problem with the maths - that is a straightforward calculation.

What I do have a question about is why the software in the autoguider has the ability to sample as often as up to 20 times per second if there is no real requirement to do so. According to others on this site (including Roland) you should be looking at corrections every second or slower. So what sort of mount is able to make good use of those 1/20th or a second exposures which imply a correction rate of up to 20Hertz. I say "up to" because of course if you have a good mount then you might only be correcting very 20, 30 or 100 exposures or whatever.

Perhaps this is a redundant thread for an AP site as the view is that a setting of 1 sec or slower is what is needed for mounts like the Mach 1, 900, 1200 etc. and this will avoid over-correcting and bouncing the mount around as it tries to "chase its tail".

Murray




Kurt Mihalco <mihalco@...> wrote: Hi Murray,
First, I don't have an Orion Starshoot autoguide camera, so my
comments could be inaccurate. Their specs show a maximum full res
frame rate of 15 fps. This is based on the time it takes the
hardware to scan out and digitize the imager at full resolution and
transfer it to the PC over the USB. So, irrespective of the
exposure, 15 frames per second is the maximum the camera is capable
of delivering a full frame image to the PC (I don't know if the
camera supports binning or ROI, which could allow for faster frame
rates). The PC sofware (PHDGuide?) then
has to process the frame, compare it to the previous one, and issue
any guiding commands, back through the USB to the camera, which then
closes the solid state switches which command the mount to move a
particular direction (by the SBIG compatible interface). If your
exposure is greater than 1/15 second (66.7 mscec), then the frame
rate the camera delivers images to the PC must slow down
accordingly. For example, if you set a 1/2 second exposure, then the
camera can only deliver 2 frames per second to the PC. The key point
here is that the guide software is what issues the corrections to the
mount (through some hardware in the camera head). The camera itself
only delivers the images to the PC based software which analyzes them
and determines the appropriate corrections. The PC Software cannot
issue guiding corrections any faster than the camera is delivering
images to it. If the camera is taking 2 second exposures, then the
maximum rate the software can issue a correction to the mount is
every 2 seconds. Hope this makes sense.
Regards,
Kurt Mihalco

--- In ap-gto@..., Murray Hammick <mphammick@...> wrote:
>
> I hear what you say and do not doubt the veracity of your comments -

and especially Roland's authority in this matter.
>
> That said - why does the Orion guide camera offer you a choice of
exposure down to .02 sec ? Is it in fact not sending corrections
after
each exposure (assuming less than perfect tracking of course) ?
>
> Murray


(No subject)

Scott Hammonds <shammo@...>
 

1200





Scott Hammonds

www.creatorsview.com

---------------------------------------------



From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of
Gerald Sargent
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:21 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto]



My hand controller on my Mach! under mount selection lists
as options 400, 600, 900, 1200, but not Mach 1.
Which one should I select ?
Does it make a difference ?


Re: 900GTO RA Period Time

Gedas
 

Thank you very much, was having a hard time finding it in the normal documentation.
Gedas
http://gedas.cc
http://www.w8bya.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wade Van Arsdale" <uwpf23@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:29 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: 900GTO RA Period Time


It's 382.9515135 seconds (source: PEMPro).

Cheers,
Wade Van Arsdale
AP-1200 GTO
Little Rock, AR., USA

///////////

--- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@...> wrote:

Can someone tell me the RA period (seconds) for the 900GTO please?

Gedas
http://gedas.cc
http://www.w8bya.com


------------------------------------

To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links



900GTO RA Period Time

Gedas
 

Can someone tell me the RA period (seconds) for the 900GTO please?

Gedas
http://gedas.cc
http://www.w8bya.com


Re: Autoguider correction frequency

Dr. David Toth
 

At 10:05 PM 3/29/2008, Murray Hammick wrote:
I hear what you say and do not doubt the veracity of your comments - and especially Roland's authority in this matter.

That said - why does the Orion guide camera offer you a choice of exposure down to .02 sec ? Is it in fact not sending corrections after each exposure (assuming less than perfect tracking of course) ?

Murray
Well, it may in fact offer you that choice, but it does not mean you should do that .... There are MANY mounts that couldn't react that often anyway ... I typically use 1-2 sec exposures with the guide chip in my STL-11000 on my AP 7" f/7 on the Paramount ME ... in hydrogen alpha, I have used guide star exposures of 45 seconds! You have to view the whole thing as a SYSTEM and see how it relates to your average seeing. My 1260 mm focal length is quite forgiving, and the AP and Paramounts have quite good PEC and little or no backlash. That coupled with good polar alignment allows you to guide less aggressively. I've seen aggressive/frequent guiding produce inferior results at times.

This is all quite different from trying to use the AO devices with their rapid moving tilt mirrors. In those cases the mount gets "bumped" very infrequently.

If you have followed threads like this before, you'll note that Roland has advocated SMALL corrections and trying to always come in from the same side. This helps you to avoid oscillating to and fro.

In the "old days", you had to master sitting at the guiding eyepiece. Modern auto-guiding also requires that you pay your dues and work out the parameters for your particular system. We can all offer opinions and guidance, but in the end, YOU will be the expert with YOUR system.

Enjoy!

Dave


(No subject)

Gerald Sargent <sargentg@...>
 

My hand controller on my Mach! under mount selection lists
as options 400, 600, 900, 1200, but not Mach 1.
Which one should I select ?
Does it make a difference ?


Re: Autoguider correction frequency

roy uyematsu <roystarman@...>
 

The old Ao-7 was really working to do it at 20 times a second much less a 50
times per second a 20 ms exposure time would infer. It was used to reduce
seeing errors but it cannot be used in larger format cameras and the newer
AOL-8 would be lucky to make the 20 as it appears to be slower than the
A0-7. Given that effects of stellar position on seeing are random. I would
adopt the approach of not applying the correction unless it exceeds perhaps
a tenth of a pixel or more depending on your setup vs. trying to user a
lower aggressiveness and input every correction. I am not one of the
astrophoto demigods that frequently get their stuff published. But I do know
one of them closely and he actually monitors guiding all the time he images
and tries to use the 5 to 10 second approach. He will watch the error graphs
and if they get too large will stop the image and wait for a better time or
Reclaibrate or focus as required. My mantra to the beginners in our club is
that anytime you have to move the mount with a guiding correction you are
introducing a small step function, This will cause vibrations, and perhaps
other issues, thus fewer corrections the better. This did not really include
the consideration of Field Rotation but it is certainly an issue in longer
images on larger chips.



I too own an ME and an AP900 mount and the ME is continuously applying servo
corrections thus the ME hum many of us are use to hearing but these are part
of the servo’s system for tracking not guiding corrections. I think an AOL-8
can apply very fast corrections (on the order of 10 times a second) but it
does not drive the mount it moves a small lens thus it is much more
responsive due too its lower mass.



Roy Uyematsu



roystarman@...



_____

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of
Murray Hammick
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:05 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency



I hear what you say and do not doubt the veracity of your comments - and
especially Roland's authority in this matter.

That said - why does the Orion guide camera offer you a choice of exposure
down to .02 sec ? Is it in fact not sending corrections after each exposure
(assuming less than perfect tracking of course) ?

Murray

"David B. Toth" <HYPERLINK "mailto:ve3gyq%40amsat.org"ve3gyq@...>
wrote: At 06:08 PM 3/29/2008, HYPERLINK
"mailto:chris1011%40aol.com"chris1011@... wrote:
In a message dated 3/29/2008 1:12:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
HYPERLINK "mailto:mphammick%40yahoo.com"mphammick@... writes:


I have a friend with a Paramount ME who says that that system corrects
up
to 10 times a second.
Not sure what this means. I don't think your friend does either. A mount
system (mount servo) does nothing by itself - it does not do any
correcting by
itself. It simply goes at a steady sidereal rate until you command
it to change
that rate by an outside software command (or guider command).
Roland; you posted exactly what I was going to say .... I have AP
mounts and I have a Paramount,
and I have never heard those figures quoted .... As you suggest, the
servo system is busy sensing
thousands of times per second, but the only corrections, as you say,
come from guider instructions.

Even IF a system could respond to 10 guider corrections per second,
why would you?
You would just be chasing the seeing ....

I try for the best polar alignment possible, and try to do as FEW
corrections as possible ...

I don't think you can get the same "adaptic-optics" effect from
guiding rapidly.

Just my $0.02 worth ....

Dave










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Checked by AVG.
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Checked by AVG.
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Re: Autoguider correction frequency

Bill Bradford
 

That's good to know.

Thanks,
Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: hewholooks
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:05 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency


Bill,

I did a rough align with the polar scope - which I will honestly say,
I don't care for much. When I turn the scope in it's collar, there
is some play that would make aligning problematic if that were the
only method you used.

I then did the quick drift method in the manual - the one where you
change the time setting to catch the same star from both sides of the
mount. It worked extremely well. I can't recall the software making
any dec corrections, although I could have missed them.

Hunter

--- In ap-gto@..., "Bill Bradford" <bcbradford@...> wrote:
>
> Hunter,
>
> Did you use the polar scope to position Polaris? If so, how much
adjusting of Azimuth and Altitude did you have to do during the drift
alignment ( unless you have a permanent set up and have the mount
dialed in with TPoint or something)?
>
> I will be doing drift alignment since I travel to dark sites and
have no permanent set up. I plan to try Roland's quick drift method
by using the delayed meridian feature.
>
> Bill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hewholooks
> To: ap-gto@...
> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:57 AM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency
>
>
> Gedas,
>
> Right now, as I write, I am guiding with my new Mach1 (Thank you
> Roland - you are my hero) using PHD. I have guide rate on the
mount
> set to 0.5 and PHD RA agress set to 60. I have never seen
anything
> like this. PHD is on vacation - maybe, MAYBE one correction every
5
> or 10 minutes and that's only 0.3 pixels (1.3 arcsec).
>
> I am in awe. I can't wait to image at 1500mm (tonight it's at 780
> with the 130 refractor).
>
> The Mach1 is everything they say it is.
>
> Hunter
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:
> >
> > Correct, it's the orion AG'er.
> >
> > Gedas
> > http://gedas.cc
> > http://www.w8bya.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "hewholooks" <hewholooks@>
> > To: <ap-gto@...>
> > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:53 AM
> > Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency
> >
> >
> > > So you are using your "on camera" guider and not something
like a
> DSI
> > > or independant webcam to guide with.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Hunter
> > >
> > > --- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> That's a good question Hunter. As far as I know I have not
> loaded
> > > ASCOM
> > >> onto this newly populated pc yet so I did not even access
the
> panel
> > > you
> > >> mention. I just selected on-camera for mount type in PHD. I
> > > should have
> > >> double checked the guide rate on the AP hand controller
> however.
> > > The last
> > >> time I tried AG it was set to 1x and assumed it did not
change,
> > > that's a
> > >> poor assumption on my part, I should have looked.
> > >>
> > >> Gedas
> > >> http://gedas.cc
> > >> http://www.w8bya.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "hewholooks" <hewholooks@>
> > >> To: <ap-gto@...>
> > >> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:04 AM
> > >> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Gedas,
> > >> >
> > >> > What guiding rate did you set the AP ASCOM driver to (on
the
> ASCOM
> > >> > panel - NOT the PHD settings) when you used PHD - I
believe it
> has
> > >> > 1x, 0.5x, and 0.25x as choices. I was wondering which to
use
> > > when I
> > >> > give it a try. Also, while I'm asking, what RA
aggressiveness
> did
> > >> > you select.
> > >> >
> > >> > Hunter
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Murray, I use a 900GTO and the Orion guider along with
PHD.
> Last
> > >> > week I
> > >> >> tried the guider for the first time and found that for my
> rough
> > >> > polar
> > >> >> alignment and available stars, 2 second exposures
provided me
> > > with
> > >> > perfect
> > >> >> round stars for my 15 minute test frame. I'm sure I could
> have
> > >> > gone longer
> > >> >> between exposures but since it worked I didn't mess with
the
> > >> > settings after
> > >> >> that. One note, I did have to reduce the ms step size
from (I
> > >> > think the
> > >> >> default was 1000ms) to like 100ms. By default, the cal
star
> > > would
> > >> > quickly
> > >> >> leave the cal box if left alone. Once I changed it to
100ms,
> > > this
> > >> > reduced
> > >> >> how far the mount would move and I had solid guiding.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Gedas
> > >> >> http://gedas.cc
> > >> >> http://www.w8bya.com
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> >> From: "mphammick" <mphammick@>
> > >> >> To: <ap-gto@...>
> > >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 4:18 PM
> > >> >> Subject: [ap-gto] Autoguider correction frequency
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >I have just bought the Orion Starshoot autoguider camera
and
> > > have
> > >> > got
> > >> >> > some very sharp images with a TAK scope on an AP900
mount.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Has anyone else tried this system and if yes, what
frequency
> > >> > setting
> > >> >> > do they have for the corrections. I have a friend with a
> > >> > Paramount ME
> > >> >> > who says his guider corrects 10 times a second; this
seems
> > > rather
> > >> > high
> > >> >> > to me. Does anyone have strong views as to how often
the
> guider
> > >> > should
> > >> >> > correct a reasonable AP900 ?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Murray
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > ------------------------------------
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-
gto
> list
> > >> >> > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups
Links
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ------------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto
list
> > >> > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
> > > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: Autoguider correction frequency

Kurt Mihalco <mihalco@...>
 

Hi Murray,
First, I don't have an Orion Starshoot autoguide camera, so my
comments could be inaccurate. Their specs show a maximum full res
frame rate of 15 fps. This is based on the time it takes the
hardware to scan out and digitize the imager at full resolution and
transfer it to the PC over the USB. So, irrespective of the
exposure, 15 frames per second is the maximum the camera is capable
of delivering a full frame image to the PC (I don't know if the
camera supports binning or ROI, which could allow for faster frame
rates). The PC sofware (PHDGuide?) then
has to process the frame, compare it to the previous one, and issue
any guiding commands, back through the USB to the camera, which then
closes the solid state switches which command the mount to move a
particular direction (by the SBIG compatible interface). If your
exposure is greater than 1/15 second (66.7 mscec), then the frame
rate the camera delivers images to the PC must slow down
accordingly. For example, if you set a 1/2 second exposure, then the
camera can only deliver 2 frames per second to the PC. The key point
here is that the guide software is what issues the corrections to the
mount (through some hardware in the camera head). The camera itself
only delivers the images to the PC based software which analyzes them
and determines the appropriate corrections. The PC Software cannot
issue guiding corrections any faster than the camera is delivering
images to it. If the camera is taking 2 second exposures, then the
maximum rate the software can issue a correction to the mount is
every 2 seconds. Hope this makes sense.
Regards,
Kurt Mihalco

--- In ap-gto@..., Murray Hammick <mphammick@...> wrote:

I hear what you say and do not doubt the veracity of your comments -
and especially Roland's authority in this matter.

That said - why does the Orion guide camera offer you a choice of
exposure down to .02 sec ? Is it in fact not sending corrections
after
each exposure (assuming less than perfect tracking of course) ?

Murray


Re: First Light with my new Mach1

Bill Bradford
 

Hunter,

I have learned that it is like boats...just_one_ more gadget and two more feet in length and it will be all I want. :>)

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: hewholooks
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 5:08 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: First Light with my new Mach1


Thanks Roland. Now I just need to go a few grand more into my
pockets and get a field flattener better suited to the scope and
start looking at dedicated CCD's. For a start :->

Hunter

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/29/2008 7:27:24 AM Central Daylight Time,
> hewholooks@... writes:
>
>
> > Set up the new mount yesterday afternoon and it wasn't supposed
to be
> > clear - but it was. After a slight learning curve, I got these
shots
> > of the Leo Trio - first 5 images in this gallery (really just one
image
> > in 5 ways).
> >
> > Thanks for looking.
> >
> > http://hwilson.zenfolio.com/p781396937
> >
>
> You're off to a great start. Nice collection of images.
>
> Rolando
>
>
> **************
> Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on
> AOL Home.
> (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?
video=15&amp;
> ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
>
>
>
>


Re: Autoguider correction frequency

hewholooks
 

Bill,

I did a rough align with the polar scope - which I will honestly say,
I don't care for much. When I turn the scope in it's collar, there
is some play that would make aligning problematic if that were the
only method you used.

I then did the quick drift method in the manual - the one where you
change the time setting to catch the same star from both sides of the
mount. It worked extremely well. I can't recall the software making
any dec corrections, although I could have missed them.

Hunter

--- In ap-gto@..., "Bill Bradford" <bcbradford@...> wrote:

Hunter,

Did you use the polar scope to position Polaris? If so, how much
adjusting of Azimuth and Altitude did you have to do during the drift
alignment ( unless you have a permanent set up and have the mount
dialed in with TPoint or something)?

I will be doing drift alignment since I travel to dark sites and
have no permanent set up. I plan to try Roland's quick drift method
by using the delayed meridian feature.

Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: hewholooks
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:57 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency


Gedas,

Right now, as I write, I am guiding with my new Mach1 (Thank you
Roland - you are my hero) using PHD. I have guide rate on the
mount
set to 0.5 and PHD RA agress set to 60. I have never seen
anything
like this. PHD is on vacation - maybe, MAYBE one correction every
5
or 10 minutes and that's only 0.3 pixels (1.3 arcsec).

I am in awe. I can't wait to image at 1500mm (tonight it's at 780
with the 130 refractor).

The Mach1 is everything they say it is.

Hunter

--- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:
>
> Correct, it's the orion AG'er.
>
> Gedas
> http://gedas.cc
> http://www.w8bya.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hewholooks" <hewholooks@>
> To: <ap-gto@...>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:53 AM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency
>
>
> > So you are using your "on camera" guider and not something
like a
DSI
> > or independant webcam to guide with.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Hunter
> >
> > --- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:
> >>
> >> That's a good question Hunter. As far as I know I have not
loaded
> > ASCOM
> >> onto this newly populated pc yet so I did not even access
the
panel
> > you
> >> mention. I just selected on-camera for mount type in PHD. I
> > should have
> >> double checked the guide rate on the AP hand controller
however.
> > The last
> >> time I tried AG it was set to 1x and assumed it did not
change,
> > that's a
> >> poor assumption on my part, I should have looked.
> >>
> >> Gedas
> >> http://gedas.cc
> >> http://www.w8bya.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "hewholooks" <hewholooks@>
> >> To: <ap-gto@...>
> >> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:04 AM
> >> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency
> >>
> >>
> >> > Gedas,
> >> >
> >> > What guiding rate did you set the AP ASCOM driver to (on
the
ASCOM
> >> > panel - NOT the PHD settings) when you used PHD - I
believe it
has
> >> > 1x, 0.5x, and 0.25x as choices. I was wondering which to
use
> > when I
> >> > give it a try. Also, while I'm asking, what RA
aggressiveness
did
> >> > you select.
> >> >
> >> > Hunter
> >> >
> >> > --- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Murray, I use a 900GTO and the Orion guider along with
PHD.
Last
> >> > week I
> >> >> tried the guider for the first time and found that for my
rough
> >> > polar
> >> >> alignment and available stars, 2 second exposures
provided me
> > with
> >> > perfect
> >> >> round stars for my 15 minute test frame. I'm sure I could
have
> >> > gone longer
> >> >> between exposures but since it worked I didn't mess with
the
> >> > settings after
> >> >> that. One note, I did have to reduce the ms step size
from (I
> >> > think the
> >> >> default was 1000ms) to like 100ms. By default, the cal
star
> > would
> >> > quickly
> >> >> leave the cal box if left alone. Once I changed it to
100ms,
> > this
> >> > reduced
> >> >> how far the mount would move and I had solid guiding.
> >> >>
> >> >> Gedas
> >> >> http://gedas.cc
> >> >> http://www.w8bya.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "mphammick" <mphammick@>
> >> >> To: <ap-gto@...>
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 4:18 PM
> >> >> Subject: [ap-gto] Autoguider correction frequency
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >I have just bought the Orion Starshoot autoguider camera
and
> > have
> >> > got
> >> >> > some very sharp images with a TAK scope on an AP900
mount.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Has anyone else tried this system and if yes, what
frequency
> >> > setting
> >> >> > do they have for the corrections. I have a friend with a
> >> > Paramount ME
> >> >> > who says his guider corrects 10 times a second; this
seems
> > rather
> >> > high
> >> >> > to me. Does anyone have strong views as to how often
the
guider
> >> > should
> >> >> > correct a reasonable AP900 ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Murray
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-
gto
list
> >> >> > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups
Links
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto
list
> >> > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
> > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Autoguider correction frequency

Woodwind
 

I hear what you say and do not doubt the veracity of your comments - and especially Roland's authority in this matter.

That said - why does the Orion guide camera offer you a choice of exposure down to .02 sec ? Is it in fact not sending corrections after each exposure (assuming less than perfect tracking of course) ?

Murray

"David B. Toth" <ve3gyq@...> wrote: At 06:08 PM 3/29/2008, chris1011@... wrote:
>In a message dated 3/29/2008 1:12:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
>mphammick@... writes:
>
>
> > I have a friend with a Paramount ME who says that that system corrects up
> > to 10 times a second.
>
>Not sure what this means. I don't think your friend does either. A mount
>system (mount servo) does nothing by itself - it does not do any
>correcting by
>itself. It simply goes at a steady sidereal rate until you command
>it to change
>that rate by an outside software command (or guider command).

Roland; you posted exactly what I was going to say .... I have AP
mounts and I have a Paramount,
and I have never heard those figures quoted .... As you suggest, the
servo system is busy sensing
thousands of times per second, but the only corrections, as you say,
come from guider instructions.

Even IF a system could respond to 10 guider corrections per second,
why would you?
You would just be chasing the seeing ....

I try for the best polar alignment possible, and try to do as FEW
corrections as possible ...

I don't think you can get the same "adaptic-optics" effect from
guiding rapidly.

Just my $0.02 worth ....

Dave


Re: Autoguider correction frequency

Bill Bradford
 

Hunter,

Did you use the polar scope to position Polaris? If so, how much adjusting of Azimuth and Altitude did you have to do during the drift alignment ( unless you have a permanent set up and have the mount dialed in with TPoint or something)?

I will be doing drift alignment since I travel to dark sites and have no permanent set up. I plan to try Roland's quick drift method by using the delayed meridian feature.

Bill

----- Original Message -----
From: hewholooks
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:57 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency


Gedas,

Right now, as I write, I am guiding with my new Mach1 (Thank you
Roland - you are my hero) using PHD. I have guide rate on the mount
set to 0.5 and PHD RA agress set to 60. I have never seen anything
like this. PHD is on vacation - maybe, MAYBE one correction every 5
or 10 minutes and that's only 0.3 pixels (1.3 arcsec).

I am in awe. I can't wait to image at 1500mm (tonight it's at 780
with the 130 refractor).

The Mach1 is everything they say it is.

Hunter

--- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@...> wrote:
>
> Correct, it's the orion AG'er.
>
> Gedas
> http://gedas.cc
> http://www.w8bya.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hewholooks" <hewholooks@...>
> To: <ap-gto@...>
> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:53 AM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency
>
>
> > So you are using your "on camera" guider and not something like a
DSI
> > or independant webcam to guide with.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Hunter
> >
> > --- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:
> >>
> >> That's a good question Hunter. As far as I know I have not
loaded
> > ASCOM
> >> onto this newly populated pc yet so I did not even access the
panel
> > you
> >> mention. I just selected on-camera for mount type in PHD. I
> > should have
> >> double checked the guide rate on the AP hand controller
however.
> > The last
> >> time I tried AG it was set to 1x and assumed it did not change,
> > that's a
> >> poor assumption on my part, I should have looked.
> >>
> >> Gedas
> >> http://gedas.cc
> >> http://www.w8bya.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "hewholooks" <hewholooks@>
> >> To: <ap-gto@...>
> >> Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 11:04 AM
> >> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Autoguider correction frequency
> >>
> >>
> >> > Gedas,
> >> >
> >> > What guiding rate did you set the AP ASCOM driver to (on the
ASCOM
> >> > panel - NOT the PHD settings) when you used PHD - I believe it
has
> >> > 1x, 0.5x, and 0.25x as choices. I was wondering which to use
> > when I
> >> > give it a try. Also, while I'm asking, what RA aggressiveness
did
> >> > you select.
> >> >
> >> > Hunter
> >> >
> >> > --- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Murray, I use a 900GTO and the Orion guider along with PHD.
Last
> >> > week I
> >> >> tried the guider for the first time and found that for my
rough
> >> > polar
> >> >> alignment and available stars, 2 second exposures provided me
> > with
> >> > perfect
> >> >> round stars for my 15 minute test frame. I'm sure I could
have
> >> > gone longer
> >> >> between exposures but since it worked I didn't mess with the
> >> > settings after
> >> >> that. One note, I did have to reduce the ms step size from (I
> >> > think the
> >> >> default was 1000ms) to like 100ms. By default, the cal star
> > would
> >> > quickly
> >> >> leave the cal box if left alone. Once I changed it to 100ms,
> > this
> >> > reduced
> >> >> how far the mount would move and I had solid guiding.
> >> >>
> >> >> Gedas
> >> >> http://gedas.cc
> >> >> http://www.w8bya.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "mphammick" <mphammick@>
> >> >> To: <ap-gto@...>
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 4:18 PM
> >> >> Subject: [ap-gto] Autoguider correction frequency
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >I have just bought the Orion Starshoot autoguider camera and
> > have
> >> > got
> >> >> > some very sharp images with a TAK scope on an AP900 mount.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Has anyone else tried this system and if yes, what frequency
> >> > setting
> >> >> > do they have for the corrections. I have a friend with a
> >> > Paramount ME
> >> >> > who says his guider corrects 10 times a second; this seems
> > rather
> >> > high
> >> >> > to me. Does anyone have strong views as to how often the
guider
> >> > should
> >> >> > correct a reasonable AP900 ?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Murray
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >> >
> >> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto
list
> >> >> > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
> >> > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
> > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>


Re: Autoguider correction frequency

Dr. David Toth
 

At 06:08 PM 3/29/2008, chris1011@... wrote:
In a message dated 3/29/2008 1:12:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
mphammick@... writes:


I have a friend with a Paramount ME who says that that system corrects up
to 10 times a second.
Not sure what this means. I don't think your friend does either. A mount
system (mount servo) does nothing by itself - it does not do any correcting by
itself. It simply goes at a steady sidereal rate until you command it to change
that rate by an outside software command (or guider command).
Roland; you posted exactly what I was going to say .... I have AP mounts and I have a Paramount,
and I have never heard those figures quoted .... As you suggest, the servo system is busy sensing
thousands of times per second, but the only corrections, as you say, come from guider instructions.

Even IF a system could respond to 10 guider corrections per second, why would you?
You would just be chasing the seeing ....

I try for the best polar alignment possible, and try to do as FEW corrections as possible ...

I don't think you can get the same "adaptic-optics" effect from guiding rapidly.

Just my $0.02 worth ....

Dave


Re: First Light with my new Mach1

hewholooks
 

Thanks for the kind words, Roland, but take my word for it, the field
isn't as flat as it would be with an AP 130/780 using an AP field
flattener (duh-obviously). The AP field flattener helps, but the
objective on this scope doesn't quite match it. I am thrilled to
have the AP flattener, however, as I am sure it helps the field quite
a bit.

I know. I'll send you my objective and you can make me my own
personalized field flattener. ;->

Anyway, Roland, thanks for the great product and service.

Hunter

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 3/29/2008 5:09:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
hewholooks@... writes:


Thanks Roland. Now I just need to go a few grand more into my
pockets and get a field flattener better suited to the scope and
start looking at dedicated CCD's. For a start :->
Doesn't look it to me. Looks like a great scope.

Roland


**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on
AOL Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?
video=15&amp;
ncid=aolhom00030000000001)




Re: First Light with my new Mach1

hewholooks
 

Sshhhh! Not so loud!

Hunter

--- In ap-gto@..., "Gedas" <w8bya@...> wrote:

And for just a thousand I promise not to tell your wife ! <g>
Gedas
http://gedas.cc
http://www.w8bya.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "hewholooks" <hewholooks@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:08 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: First Light with my new Mach1


Thanks Roland. Now I just need to go a few grand more into my
pockets and get a field flattener better suited to the scope and
start looking at dedicated CCD's. For a start :->

Hunter

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@ wrote:

In a message dated 3/29/2008 7:27:24 AM Central Daylight Time,
hewholooks@ writes:


Set up the new mount yesterday afternoon and it wasn't
supposed
to be
clear - but it was. After a slight learning curve, I got
these
shots
of the Leo Trio - first 5 images in this gallery (really just
one
image
in 5 ways).

Thanks for looking.

http://hwilson.zenfolio.com/p781396937
You're off to a great start. Nice collection of images.

Rolando


**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on
AOL Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?
video=15&amp;
ncid=aolhom00030000000001)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


------------------------------------

To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links



Re: First Light with my new Mach1

Gedas
 

And for just a thousand I promise not to tell your wife ! <g>
Gedas
http://gedas.cc
http://www.w8bya.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "hewholooks" <hewholooks@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:08 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: First Light with my new Mach1


Thanks Roland. Now I just need to go a few grand more into my pockets and get a field flattener better suited to the scope and start looking at dedicated CCD's. For a start :->
Hunter
--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 3/29/2008 7:27:24 AM Central Daylight Time, hewholooks@... writes:

Set up the new mount yesterday afternoon and it wasn't supposed
to be
clear - but it was. After a slight learning curve, I got these
shots
of the Leo Trio - first 5 images in this gallery (really just one
image
in 5 ways).
Thanks for looking.
http://hwilson.zenfolio.com/p781396937
You're off to a great start. Nice collection of images.
Rolando
**************
Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL Home.
(http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?
video=15&amp;
ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
------------------------------------
To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gtoYahoo! Groups Links


Re: Astro-Physics Keypad Firmware Version 4.15

Pierre Henrotay
 

Hi,

just to tell that I performed the upgrade from 4.12 to 4.15 today on
my Mach1.
Very smooth installation; the upload guide is pretty detailed and
very helpful.

Just one small note: connecting the motor cables is not required (and
so says the upload guide) but if you don't do so, be prepared to get
one or two messages on the keypad with "Motors stalled"; just hitting
the Menu key resumes the operation.

I have been very much concerned with the east longitudes glitch (I
live E5 50... which was interpreted before as E4 10...), this is now
correctly handled indeed, many thanks for this.

Nice WE to all !

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@..., "howard4ap" <howard@...> wrote:

Hi Everybody!

We have put a new version of our keypad firmware up on the website -
v.4.15. This is NOT a complete new version of the firmware. That
will be the upcoming v.4.20, which is still undergoing some final
tweaking. This version addresses some of the issues that customers
in eastern longitudes were having with their location and time zone
data. All of you in the western hemisphere can simply ignore this
update, but anyone east of the Prime Meridian will want to upload
v.4.15 to your keypads right away. Functionally, v.4.15 is
identical
to v.4.12, so you can continue to use your v.4.12 manual. In fact,
there is a newly updated manual for v.4.12 on the website that we
encourage you to download. We have also prepared a v.4.15 Addendum
that goes into a bit more detail on the issues addressed by the new
firmware. Version 4.15 and the documentation can all be found in
the
Technical Support Section of our website:

http://www.astro-
physics.com/tech_support/mounts/keypad_update/main_inst.htm

Contact us directly if you have forgotten or misplaced the username
and password to download the keypad firmware.

Howard
Astro-Physics