Sure, but how can this done ? I see no trace check box in the setup
for the driver. I suppose there is a trick.

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@..., "Chuck Faranda" <mail_lists2@...>
wrote:

I think a serial trace would identify what your mount is sending

when

queried for the longitude.

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: phenrotay
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:10 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] Fw: [SPAM] Fw: [ASCOM] Re: Error in AP driver


Hello,
I am the one who identified the glitch and posted on ASCOM-Talk.
If further information or tests are needed, do not hesitate to
contact me.
This is a Mach1 mount, 4.12 GTO keypad. Driver is 4.1.25.
Helper2.dll is dated 7-apr-2005, 45056 bytes.
I wonder what is the impact. Any idea ?

Regards,
Pierre

I think a serial trace would identify what your mount is sending when queried for the longitude.

Chuck

I wouldn't do anything rash at this point. As has been said here
drilling stainless steel is no snack especially with small drills. If
the drill is not kept cutting constantly with reasonable pressure the SS
work hardens on the surface very rapidly.
The mount will work perfectly well with 3 clutch screws so you don't
have to do anything.
Leave it until you can have it done properly and get on with using and
enjoying it.
Brian

http://www.bcoote-astro.com/default.htm



Peter Santangeli wrote:

I like the glue idea, particularly gluing a heavy paper clip into a hole in the top of the stud.

The problem is that if it doesn't work, you're left with a sheared-off paper clip sticking up right where you want to drill for the EZ out.

So I'd go for the EZ-out straight off.

Some more tips:

Use a quality, 135° split-point bit. I won't wander as much, and it cuts slower than a 118° point. Use cutting oil, or some 3-in-1 or other light oil. Make sure to center-punch the hole before you start.

If you're going to start with a 1/8" bit, use a small drill. A large drill will be harder to keep straight and more likely to break the bit.

Oh, and wear safety glasses.

Good luck,
-- Jeff.



________________________________

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of Mark Galiyano Jr
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 4:15 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob



You *cannot* use the broken off piece or any other threaded extractor. Whatever is glued to the stud must not be threaded. If you do, there is no way to unsure tha the threads don't jam like a jam nut arrangement. If an attempt is made to use glue, I would use a crayon to wax up the whole inside, then a dremel or small drill bit to clean up a spot for the bond, or even drill the size of a heavy duty paper clip and glue that inside the hole.
All that said, I still think an easy out is the way to go. Maybe if the rest of the clutches are loose, movement of the axis may help loosen this one.
Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: steve_dashiell
To: ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob

Since the top of the broken stud is 3 mm down in the threaded hole, if
glue of any sort is put on top of it and the other piece is threaded
in, any excess glue will be forced out of the space between the two
broken pieces and into the threads both above and below the break,
since there will be no where else the excess can go. I seriously
doubt that there is anything that can be done to seal the threads
adequately to prevent this, since the glue is relatively
incompressible. If the amount of glue used is so small that there is
no excess to squeeze out, it might work, but the proper amount is
probably difficult to estimate.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@...> wrote:
>
> You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the
interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax
and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that
enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be
done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though.
Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out
wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.
>
> Best of luck,
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: steve_dashiell
> To: ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:17 PM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob
>
>
> The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
> threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
> locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even with
> proper equipment.
>
> Steve
>
> --- In ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
> > jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
> > strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for
maybe a
> > day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if
the
> > remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
> > walls.
> >
> > Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could
happen
> > is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.
> >
> > Bryon
> >
> > --- In ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed
to be
> > > at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,
I am the one who identified the glitch and posted on ASCOM-Talk.
If further information or tests are needed, do not hesitate to
contact me.
This is a Mach1 mount, 4.12 GTO keypad. Driver is 4.1.25.
Helper2.dll is dated 7-apr-2005, 45056 bytes.
I wonder what is the impact. Any idea ?

Regards,
Pierre
--- In ap-gto@..., "Chuck Faranda" <mail_lists2@...>
wrote:

FYI: Ajai is investigating the issue and will report ASAP.

Regards,
Chuck Faranda
http://ccdastro.net

----- Original Message -----

I am running the latest driver for AP GTO mounts (4.1.25)
under ASCOM 4. My mount is a Mach1.
The reported site information is incorrect: after a Get
Lat/Long is done, I get a correct value for Latitude, but
Longitude is wrong:
it reports
E 4 10.00
instead of
E 5 50.00
I checked the AP keypad: it's OK there.
So I suspect a wrong conversion... possibly for all of us
sitting E of Greenwich...

I haven't checked yet, but my gut is that the piece that is still in
there is not extraordinarily tight. I don't think it broke due to
tightening (I don't keep them that tight). I think what happened is
the big knob part got hit at some point, and the shaft broke. I seem
to remember that at one point this summer I noticed the knob wasn't
square to the mount. Not looking into how it was put together, I
thought to myself "hmmmm. Interesting construction that could let that
wobble like that but still tighten".

I realize now that what had probably had probably happened is the
aluminum had split but not broken right off. If I had realized the
(somewhat odd) construction of the "bolt" I would have backed it out
and replaced it right away. Live and learn.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll let you know how it goes. I've already
had both the Dec section and RA section back to AP at least once, so
I'd rather avoid another repair visit. I sold my backup G11 last week,
so it would leave me without a good mount!

Pete


--- In ap-gto@..., "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@...> wrote:

You *cannot* use the broken off piece or any other threaded

extractor. Whatever is glued to the stud must not be threaded. If
you do, there is no way to unsure tha the threads don't jam like a jam
nut arrangement. If an attempt is made to use glue, I would use a
crayon to wax up the whole inside, then a dremel or small drill bit to
clean up a spot for the bond, or even drill the size of a heavy duty
paper clip and glue that inside the hole.

All that said, I still think an easy out is the way to go. Maybe if

the rest of the clutches are loose, movement of the axis may help
loosen this one.

Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: steve_dashiell
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob


Since the top of the broken stud is 3 mm down in the threaded hole, if
glue of any sort is put on top of it and the other piece is threaded
in, any excess glue will be forced out of the space between the two
broken pieces and into the threads both above and below the break,
since there will be no where else the excess can go. I seriously
doubt that there is anything that can be done to seal the threads
adequately to prevent this, since the glue is relatively
incompressible. If the amount of glue used is so small that there is
no excess to squeeze out, it might work, but the proper amount is
probably difficult to estimate.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@> wrote:
>
> You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the
interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax
and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that
enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be
done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though.
Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out
wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.
>
> Best of luck,
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: steve_dashiell
> To: ap-gto@...
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:17 PM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob
>
>
> The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
> threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
> locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even

with

> proper equipment.
>
> Steve
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@>

wrote:

> >
> >
> > If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
> > jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some

other

> > strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for
maybe a
> > day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if
the
> > remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the

screw

> > walls.
> >
> > Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could
happen
> > is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.
> >
> > Bryon
> >
> > --- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed
to be
> > > at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You *cannot* use the broken off piece or any other threaded extractor. Whatever is glued to the stud must not be threaded. If you do, there is no way to unsure tha the threads don't jam like a jam nut arrangement. If an attempt is made to use glue, I would use a crayon to wax up the whole inside, then a dremel or small drill bit to clean up a spot for the bond, or even drill the size of a heavy duty paper clip and glue that inside the hole.
All that said, I still think an easy out is the way to go. Maybe if the rest of the clutches are loose, movement of the axis may help loosen this one.
Mark

Sorry I mentioned the glue.

I had a similar broke bolt on a piece of equipement, and after I got all the ezz-outs and bits lined up, one of my guys found the bolt was actually loose, even though it had broke off, and he got it out using the glue method. But it was a larger bolt that allowed more surface contact and he used a thick epoxy.

I have not had great luck drilling stainless, if that is what the bolt is. With a high dollar mount, I would take it to someone that has the right tools to do it.

Good luck,
Dean

Since the top of the broken stud is 3 mm down in the threaded hole, if
glue of any sort is put on top of it and the other piece is threaded
in, any excess glue will be forced out of the space between the two
broken pieces and into the threads both above and below the break,
since there will be no where else the excess can go. I seriously
doubt that there is anything that can be done to seal the threads
adequately to prevent this, since the glue is relatively
incompressible. If the amount of glue used is so small that there is
no excess to squeeze out, it might work, but the proper amount is
probably difficult to estimate.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@...> wrote:

You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the

interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax
and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that
enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be
done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though.
Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out
wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.

Best of luck,
Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: steve_dashiell
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:17 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob


The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even with
proper equipment.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@> wrote:
>
>
> If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
> jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
> strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for

maybe a

> day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if

the

> remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
> walls.
>
> Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could

happen

> is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.
>
> Bryon
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed

to be

> > at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.
> >
> > Pete
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pete,
If the hole is not blind meaning the broken off blot is not rammed in tight (maybe use a pick and see if it moves). The easiest way I've found to extract a bolt is to use a left hand drill bit. Snap On sells a 5 piece set, just reverse your drill and usually the second you touch the broken bolt it spins right out.

Sometimes you need to use a center punch to create a starting point but you must determine that with your situation.

Tom

You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though. Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.

Best of luck,
Mark

--- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@...> wrote:

Sadly, while setting up today in my yard, I went to tighten one of
my RA clutch knobs on my AP900 and it snapped off in my hand. It
broke off about 5mm down, so that I can just see about 2 mm of the
bolt inside of it. The rest of the shaft is no doubt stuck down in
the hole it screws into.

There are a number of ways to tackle this if you want to avoid
letting a machine shop or AP do it.
Based on what you've described I can tell you how I would go
about things, given the described problem, and also assuming that the
end of the bolt can't/shouldn't be exceptionally tight in the threaded
hole. Hopefully no more than hand tight.
Take a small center-punch and carefully try to place a small
center-punch mark in the center of the broken shaft. Then take a very
small drill bit (about 1/16") and carefully and slowly drill a pilot
hole through the center-punch mark. Go slowly and carefully so you
don't break the drill bit. Drill to whatever depth makes sense, based
on the following step.
Get, buy, rent, a set of EZ-outs. Drill the recommended size
larger hole for the selected size EZ-out, by drilling into the smaller
pilot hole. Finally, use the EZ-out to extract the broken bolt, and
be careful not to break the EX-out.
If a decent amount of force won't back it out then go with a
larger size hole and larger EZ-out, if possible, before using more
force than the smaller tools will handle.

A couple of questions...

Is there a way for me to get the shaft out?

Hopefully.

Can I order a replacement?

Of course.

Am I stuck sending my RA assembly back to AP :-(

Not necessarily.

Any danger of me using it this way until a convenient time?

I would suspect there's no danger at all in using it.

Harvey

The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even with
proper equipment.

Steve

If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for maybe a
day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if the
remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
walls.

Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could happen
is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.

Bryon

Sorry Ajai, i complety forgot to mention that i'm using CP3 controller.

I would take it to a shop that can do bolt extractions. I use a guy that has a wire EDM (??) machine I think it is called and he burns them out. But this is with steel cutter heads so not sure if doing this in alum is ok but they would know. I would not want to risk screwing up my mount doing it myself.

You might also try to see if it by chance is a already loose by gluing something to it and see if it will turn.

Good luck.

Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed to be
at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.

Pete

--- In ap-gto@..., "Rick K" <JunkMailGoesHere@...> wrote:

I am totally confused. If this is the problem, toss it in the garbage
and order a new one from AP on Monday.

I thought you were talking about the mount having a problem with a
broken off threaded section in the mount itself. That is serious and
is what a picture of would be worth a 1000 words.

Rick.


--- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:

Maybe a picture is indeed worth 1000 words... Here is a shot of the
broken knob:

http://www.santangeli.net/knob.jpg

As you can see, the device is actually a hollow threaded aluminum tube
with the knob part screwed into it. The walls of the tube are not that
thick, but should take quite a bit of torque without breaking. All I
can assume is that the knob got banged longitudinally somehow, and the
tube broke.

The rest of the tube (with the "outer" thread) is unfortunately still
in the mount.

Pete


--- In ap-gto@..., Gregory Nottingham <gnpnotti@> wrote:

My experience using Eazy Outs on exhaust studs on cylinder heads

has

not been good. I know that the telescope situation is different.
What is the diameter of screw? As long as you are sure that screw
isn't cross-threaded, you should be alright but every-time I've

used

one, I have gone in with the assumption that I will have to take

the

head to a machine shop to drill out the stud and the broken,

hardened

steel Easy Out.
Good luck.
Greg
On Dec 15, 2007, at 2:01, Peter Santangeli wrote:

Good suggestion. I was thinking about something like this.

Pete

--- In ap-gto@..., kawasaki99@ wrote:

Hello Strong Man,
Local hardware store ought to sell an (easy-out)

which is a

sort of a left hand thread tap and the proper size pilot drill

for the

easy-out. If it's only hand tight to ought to come out. Have an

assistant hold a

vacuum cleaner hose close to broken screw while drilling the

pilot

hole to

capture any small chips. A small center drill or sharp prick

punch

may be necessary

to ensure the pilot drill puts the hole close to the true

center of

the

broken screw. Sounds like a lot but it's generally easy.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yup. If you have a CP1 or CP2 controller, never use the Horizon Check. It
is broken in the firmware.

Ajai

_____

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of
yves laroche
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:48 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver



Hi Ajai,

I've got plenty of synchronization problem last summer until i decided to
uncheck the Use Horizon Check feature in your driver. I was able to slew to
objects when they were on the same meridian side but when they passed the
meridian, the mount tried to go upside down at each try. I've got this
problem on several nights until i decided to investigate and found that the
Use Horizon Check feature was causing the behavior . This feature was
checked during the last winter without any problem but the problem appeared
after daylight saving change. I'm running AP ASCOM version 4.1.25 and
helper2.dll is installed.

Maybe it's related or not with this thread bot i prefer to let you
know...just in case.

Yves

thanks for the reply Paul

does it also control the aximuth for a dome?