Date   

Re: Error in AP driver

Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
 

Hi Ajai,

Silly question: Did you click the "Get Lat/Long" button in the setup
dialog? Please start a trace just before you do and send it to me.
Also please tell me what appears in the dialog afterwards. This code
is very simple. The mount is reporting the CORRECT information from
your trace below +355*50:00 in AP's format really means E 005:50:00
in standard terms (they measure 360deg positive westward from the
prime meridian).
I believe that calculation is incorrect. It should be:

360:00:00 - 355:50:00 = 4:10:00

-Ray


Re: Error in AP driver

Ajai Sehgal
 

Pierre,

Silly question: Did you click the "Get Lat/Long" button in the setup
dialog? Please start a trace just before you do and send it to me.
Also please tell me what appears in the dialog afterwards. This code
is very simple. The mount is reporting the CORRECT information from
your trace below +355*50:00 in AP's format really means E 005:50:00
in standard terms (they measure 360deg positive westward from the
prime meridian).

Here is how the driver works: After putting in the correct LAT and
LONG settings in the dialog initially, click APPLY. This will set
the values into the mount controller (you can also set them into the
controller by hand but BEFORE A GET make sure that the controller is
initialized and you have selected the correct location (I suspect
that you had not done this when getting the bogus values). After
that, clicking on GET LAT/LONG should correspond to the correct values

Ajai


--- In ap-gto@..., "phenrotay" <Pierre.Henrotay@...>
wrote:

Hereafter an extract of the file; puzzling !
[14:25:00] Transmit(":Gt#")...
[14:25:00] ...done
[14:25:00] ReceiveTerminated("#")...
[14:25:01] ...received "+50*35:00#"
[14:25:01] Transmit(":Gg#")...
[14:25:01] ...done
[14:25:01] ReceiveTerminated("#")...
[14:25:01] ...received "+355*50:00#"

When looking at location #1, it says
E 005:50:00
N 50:35:00
This is 4.12 revision L


Pierre

--- In ap-gto@..., "Chuck Faranda" <mail_lists2@>
wrote:

Look in the folder ..&#92;Program Files&#92;Common Files&#92;ASCOM
for 'TraceOn.vbs'. Double click it, select yes to the msg, run the
test. Double click 'TraceOff.vbs' in
the same folder to stop the logging. The log file should be in
C:&#92;SerialTrace.txt.

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: phenrotay
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:08 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver


Sure, but how can this done ? I see no trace check box in the
setup
for the driver. I suppose there is a trick.

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@..., "Chuck Faranda" <mail_lists2@>
wrote:
>
> I think a serial trace would identify what your mount is
sending
when
> queried for the longitude.
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: phenrotay
> To: ap-gto@...
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:10 AM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Fw: [SPAM] Fw: [ASCOM] Re: Error in AP
driver
>
>
> Hello,
> I am the one who identified the glitch and posted on ASCOM-
Talk.
> If further information or tests are needed, do not hesitate to
> contact me.
> This is a Mach1 mount, 4.12 GTO keypad. Driver is 4.1.25.
> Helper2.dll is dated 7-apr-2005, 45056 bytes.
> I wonder what is the impact. Any idea ?
>
> Regards,
> Pierre
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Error in AP driver

Pierre Henrotay
 

Hereafter an extract of the file; puzzling !
[14:25:00] Transmit(":Gt#")...
[14:25:00] ...done
[14:25:00] ReceiveTerminated("#")...
[14:25:01] ...received "+50*35:00#"
[14:25:01] Transmit(":Gg#")...
[14:25:01] ...done
[14:25:01] ReceiveTerminated("#")...
[14:25:01] ...received "+355*50:00#"

When looking at location #1, it says
E 005:50:00
N 50:35:00
This is 4.12 revision L


Pierre

--- In ap-gto@..., "Chuck Faranda" <mail_lists2@...>
wrote:

Look in the folder ..&#92;Program Files&#92;Common Files&#92;ASCOM
for 'TraceOn.vbs'. Double click it, select yes to the msg, run the
test. Double click 'TraceOff.vbs' in
the same folder to stop the logging. The log file should be in
C:&#92;SerialTrace.txt.

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: phenrotay
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:08 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver


Sure, but how can this done ? I see no trace check box in the
setup
for the driver. I suppose there is a trick.

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@..., "Chuck Faranda" <mail_lists2@>
wrote:
>
> I think a serial trace would identify what your mount is
sending
when
> queried for the longitude.
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: phenrotay
> To: ap-gto@...
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:10 AM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Fw: [SPAM] Fw: [ASCOM] Re: Error in AP driver
>
>
> Hello,
> I am the one who identified the glitch and posted on ASCOM-Talk.
> If further information or tests are needed, do not hesitate to
> contact me.
> This is a Mach1 mount, 4.12 GTO keypad. Driver is 4.1.25.
> Helper2.dll is dated 7-apr-2005, 45056 bytes.
> I wonder what is the impact. Any idea ?
>
> Regards,
> Pierre
>







Re: Broken clutch knob

ayiomamitis
 

--- In ap-gto@..., "THouseworth" <look-up1@...> wrote:

Pete,
Tom,

If the hole is not blind meaning the broken off blot is not rammed
in tight (maybe use a pick and see if it moves). The easiest way I've
found to extract a bolt is to use a left hand drill bit. Snap On
sells a 5 piece set, just reverse your drill and usually the second
you touch the broken bolt it spins right out.
You just described how I managed to have a screw removed from the
casing of a hard disk. I was sweating that I would be facing serious
problems with the screw that had snapped in half. A friend with a
machine shop did exactly what you describe and the screw popped out
very easily.

Sometimes you need to use a center punch to create a starting point
but you must determine that with your situation.
Sound advice.

If I were in Peter's situation, I would wait until Monday when Howard
is back at the AP premises. I am sure he WILL know what to do!

Anthony.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Santangeli
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 2:13 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob



Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed to be
at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.

Pete

--- In ap-gto@..., "Rick K" <JunkMailGoesHere@> wrote:
>
> I am totally confused. If this is the problem, toss it in the
garbage
> and order a new one from AP on Monday.
>
> I thought you were talking about the mount having a problem with a
> broken off threaded section in the mount itself. That is serious and
> is what a picture of would be worth a 1000 words.
>
> Rick.
>
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Maybe a picture is indeed worth 1000 words... Here is a shot
of the
> > broken knob:
> >
> > http://www.santangeli.net/knob.jpg
> >
> > As you can see, the device is actually a hollow threaded
aluminum tube
> > with the knob part screwed into it. The walls of the tube are
not that
> > thick, but should take quite a bit of torque without breaking.
All I
> > can assume is that the knob got banged longitudinally somehow,
and the
> > tube broke.
> >
> > The rest of the tube (with the "outer" thread) is
unfortunately still
> > in the mount.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> >
> > --- In ap-gto@..., Gregory Nottingham <gnpnotti@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > My experience using Eazy Outs on exhaust studs on cylinder heads
has
> > > not been good. I know that the telescope situation is
different.
> > > What is the diameter of screw? As long as you are sure that
screw
> > > isn't cross-threaded, you should be alright but every-time I've
used
> > > one, I have gone in with the assumption that I will have to take
the
> > > head to a machine shop to drill out the stud and the broken,
> hardened
> > > steel Easy Out.
> > > Good luck.
> > > Greg
> > > On Dec 15, 2007, at 2:01, Peter Santangeli wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Good suggestion. I was thinking about something like this.
> > > >
> > > > Pete
> > > >
> > > > --- In ap-gto@..., kawasaki99@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Strong Man,
> > > > > Local hardware store ought to sell an (easy-out)
> > > > which is a
> > > > > sort of a left hand thread tap and the proper size pilot
drill
> > > > for the
> > > > > easy-out. If it's only hand tight to ought to come out.
Have an
> > > > assistant hold a
> > > > > vacuum cleaner hose close to broken screw while drilling the
pilot
> > > > hole to
> > > > > capture any small chips. A small center drill or sharp prick
punch
> > > > may be necessary
> > > > > to ensure the pilot drill puts the hole close to the true
> center of
> > > > the
> > > > > broken screw. Sounds like a lot but it's generally easy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated
recipes
> > > > >
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Error in AP driver

Chuck Faranda <mail_lists2@...>
 

Look in the folder ..&#92;Program Files&#92;Common Files&#92;ASCOM for 'TraceOn.vbs'. Double click it, select yes to the msg, run the test. Double click 'TraceOff.vbs' in
the same folder to stop the logging. The log file should be in C:&#92;SerialTrace.txt.

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: phenrotay
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 7:08 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver


Sure, but how can this done ? I see no trace check box in the setup
for the driver. I suppose there is a trick.

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@..., "Chuck Faranda" <mail_lists2@...>
wrote:
>
> I think a serial trace would identify what your mount is sending
when
> queried for the longitude.
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: phenrotay
> To: ap-gto@...
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:10 AM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Fw: [SPAM] Fw: [ASCOM] Re: Error in AP driver
>
>
> Hello,
> I am the one who identified the glitch and posted on ASCOM-Talk.
> If further information or tests are needed, do not hesitate to
> contact me.
> This is a Mach1 mount, 4.12 GTO keypad. Driver is 4.1.25.
> Helper2.dll is dated 7-apr-2005, 45056 bytes.
> I wonder what is the impact. Any idea ?
>
> Regards,
> Pierre
>


Re: Error in AP driver

Pierre Henrotay
 

Sure, but how can this done ? I see no trace check box in the setup
for the driver. I suppose there is a trick.

Pierre
--- In ap-gto@..., "Chuck Faranda" <mail_lists2@...>
wrote:

I think a serial trace would identify what your mount is sending
when
queried for the longitude.

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: phenrotay
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:10 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] Fw: [SPAM] Fw: [ASCOM] Re: Error in AP driver


Hello,
I am the one who identified the glitch and posted on ASCOM-Talk.
If further information or tests are needed, do not hesitate to
contact me.
This is a Mach1 mount, 4.12 GTO keypad. Driver is 4.1.25.
Helper2.dll is dated 7-apr-2005, 45056 bytes.
I wonder what is the impact. Any idea ?

Regards,
Pierre


Re: Error in AP driver

Chuck Faranda <mail_lists2@...>
 

I think a serial trace would identify what your mount is sending when queried for the longitude.

Chuck

----- Original Message -----
From: phenrotay
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 3:10 AM
Subject: [ap-gto] Fw: [SPAM] Fw: [ASCOM] Re: Error in AP driver


Hello,
I am the one who identified the glitch and posted on ASCOM-Talk.
If further information or tests are needed, do not hesitate to
contact me.
This is a Mach1 mount, 4.12 GTO keypad. Driver is 4.1.25.
Helper2.dll is dated 7-apr-2005, 45056 bytes.
I wonder what is the impact. Any idea ?

Regards,
Pierre


Re: Broken clutch knob

bcoote37
 

I wouldn't do anything rash at this point. As has been said here
drilling stainless steel is no snack especially with small drills. If
the drill is not kept cutting constantly with reasonable pressure the SS
work hardens on the surface very rapidly.
The mount will work perfectly well with 3 clutch screws so you don't
have to do anything.
Leave it until you can have it done properly and get on with using and
enjoying it.
Brian

http://www.bcoote-astro.com/default.htm



Peter Santangeli wrote:


I haven't checked yet, but my gut is that the piece that is still in
there is not extraordinarily tight. I don't think it broke due to
tightening (I don't keep them that tight). I think what happened is
the big knob part got hit at some point, and the shaft broke. I seem
to remember that at one point this summer I noticed the knob wasn't
square to the mount. Not looking into how it was put together, I
thought to myself "hmmmm. Interesting construction that could let that
wobble like that but still tighten".

I realize now that what had probably had probably happened is the
aluminum had split but not broken right off. If I had realized the
(somewhat odd) construction of the "bolt" I would have backed it out
and replaced it right away. Live and learn.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll let you know how it goes. I've already
had both the Dec section and RA section back to AP at least once, so
I'd rather avoid another repair visit. I sold my backup G11 last week,
so it would leave me without a good mount!

Pete


Re: Broken clutch knob

Jeff Young <jey@...>
 

I like the glue idea, particularly gluing a heavy paper clip into a hole in the top of the stud.

The problem is that if it doesn't work, you're left with a sheared-off paper clip sticking up right where you want to drill for the EZ out.

So I'd go for the EZ-out straight off.

Some more tips:

Use a quality, 135° split-point bit. I won't wander as much, and it cuts slower than a 118° point. Use cutting oil, or some 3-in-1 or other light oil. Make sure to center-punch the hole before you start.

If you're going to start with a 1/8" bit, use a small drill. A large drill will be harder to keep straight and more likely to break the bit.

Oh, and wear safety glasses.

Good luck,
-- Jeff.



________________________________

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of Mark Galiyano Jr
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 4:15 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob



You *cannot* use the broken off piece or any other threaded extractor. Whatever is glued to the stud must not be threaded. If you do, there is no way to unsure tha the threads don't jam like a jam nut arrangement. If an attempt is made to use glue, I would use a crayon to wax up the whole inside, then a dremel or small drill bit to clean up a spot for the bond, or even drill the size of a heavy duty paper clip and glue that inside the hole.
All that said, I still think an easy out is the way to go. Maybe if the rest of the clutches are loose, movement of the axis may help loosen this one.
Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: steve_dashiell
To: ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob

Since the top of the broken stud is 3 mm down in the threaded hole, if
glue of any sort is put on top of it and the other piece is threaded
in, any excess glue will be forced out of the space between the two
broken pieces and into the threads both above and below the break,
since there will be no where else the excess can go. I seriously
doubt that there is anything that can be done to seal the threads
adequately to prevent this, since the glue is relatively
incompressible. If the amount of glue used is so small that there is
no excess to squeeze out, it might work, but the proper amount is
probably difficult to estimate.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@...> wrote:
>
> You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the
interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax
and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that
enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be
done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though.
Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out
wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.
>
> Best of luck,
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: steve_dashiell
> To: ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:17 PM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob
>
>
> The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
> threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
> locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even with
> proper equipment.
>
> Steve
>
> --- In ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
> > jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
> > strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for
maybe a
> > day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if
the
> > remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
> > walls.
> >
> > Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could
happen
> > is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.
> >
> > Bryon
> >
> > --- In ap-gto@... <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed
to be
> > > at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Fw: [SPAM] Fw: [ASCOM] Re: Error in AP driver

Pierre Henrotay
 

Hello,
I am the one who identified the glitch and posted on ASCOM-Talk.
If further information or tests are needed, do not hesitate to
contact me.
This is a Mach1 mount, 4.12 GTO keypad. Driver is 4.1.25.
Helper2.dll is dated 7-apr-2005, 45056 bytes.
I wonder what is the impact. Any idea ?

Regards,
Pierre
--- In ap-gto@..., "Chuck Faranda" <mail_lists2@...>
wrote:

FYI: Ajai is investigating the issue and will report ASAP.

Regards,
Chuck Faranda
http://ccdastro.net

----- Original Message -----
I am running the latest driver for AP GTO mounts (4.1.25)
under ASCOM 4. My mount is a Mach1.
The reported site information is incorrect: after a Get
Lat/Long is done, I get a correct value for Latitude, but
Longitude is wrong:
it reports
E 4 10.00
instead of
E 5 50.00
I checked the AP keypad: it's OK there.
So I suspect a wrong conversion... possibly for all of us
sitting E of Greenwich...


Re: Broken clutch knob

Peter Santangeli
 

I haven't checked yet, but my gut is that the piece that is still in
there is not extraordinarily tight. I don't think it broke due to
tightening (I don't keep them that tight). I think what happened is
the big knob part got hit at some point, and the shaft broke. I seem
to remember that at one point this summer I noticed the knob wasn't
square to the mount. Not looking into how it was put together, I
thought to myself "hmmmm. Interesting construction that could let that
wobble like that but still tighten".

I realize now that what had probably had probably happened is the
aluminum had split but not broken right off. If I had realized the
(somewhat odd) construction of the "bolt" I would have backed it out
and replaced it right away. Live and learn.

Thanks for all the advice. I'll let you know how it goes. I've already
had both the Dec section and RA section back to AP at least once, so
I'd rather avoid another repair visit. I sold my backup G11 last week,
so it would leave me without a good mount!

Pete


--- In ap-gto@..., "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@...> wrote:

You *cannot* use the broken off piece or any other threaded
extractor. Whatever is glued to the stud must not be threaded. If
you do, there is no way to unsure tha the threads don't jam like a jam
nut arrangement. If an attempt is made to use glue, I would use a
crayon to wax up the whole inside, then a dremel or small drill bit to
clean up a spot for the bond, or even drill the size of a heavy duty
paper clip and glue that inside the hole.
All that said, I still think an easy out is the way to go. Maybe if
the rest of the clutches are loose, movement of the axis may help
loosen this one.
Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: steve_dashiell
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob


Since the top of the broken stud is 3 mm down in the threaded hole, if
glue of any sort is put on top of it and the other piece is threaded
in, any excess glue will be forced out of the space between the two
broken pieces and into the threads both above and below the break,
since there will be no where else the excess can go. I seriously
doubt that there is anything that can be done to seal the threads
adequately to prevent this, since the glue is relatively
incompressible. If the amount of glue used is so small that there is
no excess to squeeze out, it might work, but the proper amount is
probably difficult to estimate.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@> wrote:
>
> You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the
interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax
and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that
enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be
done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though.
Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out
wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.
>
> Best of luck,
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: steve_dashiell
> To: ap-gto@...
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:17 PM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob
>
>
> The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
> threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
> locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even
with
> proper equipment.
>
> Steve
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
> > jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some
other
> > strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for
maybe a
> > day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if
the
> > remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the
screw
> > walls.
> >
> > Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could
happen
> > is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.
> >
> > Bryon
> >
> > --- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed
to be
> > > at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Broken clutch knob

Mark Galiyano Jr <mgjr@...>
 

You *cannot* use the broken off piece or any other threaded extractor. Whatever is glued to the stud must not be threaded. If you do, there is no way to unsure tha the threads don't jam like a jam nut arrangement. If an attempt is made to use glue, I would use a crayon to wax up the whole inside, then a dremel or small drill bit to clean up a spot for the bond, or even drill the size of a heavy duty paper clip and glue that inside the hole.
All that said, I still think an easy out is the way to go. Maybe if the rest of the clutches are loose, movement of the axis may help loosen this one.
Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: steve_dashiell
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob


Since the top of the broken stud is 3 mm down in the threaded hole, if
glue of any sort is put on top of it and the other piece is threaded
in, any excess glue will be forced out of the space between the two
broken pieces and into the threads both above and below the break,
since there will be no where else the excess can go. I seriously
doubt that there is anything that can be done to seal the threads
adequately to prevent this, since the glue is relatively
incompressible. If the amount of glue used is so small that there is
no excess to squeeze out, it might work, but the proper amount is
probably difficult to estimate.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@...> wrote:
>
> You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the
interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax
and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that
enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be
done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though.
Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out
wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.
>
> Best of luck,
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: steve_dashiell
> To: ap-gto@...
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:17 PM
> Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob
>
>
> The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
> threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
> locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even with
> proper equipment.
>
> Steve
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
> > jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
> > strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for
maybe a
> > day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if
the
> > remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
> > walls.
> >
> > Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could
happen
> > is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.
> >
> > Bryon
> >
> > --- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed
to be
> > > at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.
> > >
> > > Pete
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Re: Broken clutch knob

Dean S
 

Sorry I mentioned the glue.

I had a similar broke bolt on a piece of equipement, and after I got all the ezz-outs and bits lined up, one of my guys found the bolt was actually loose, even though it had broke off, and he got it out using the glue method. But it was a larger bolt that allowed more surface contact and he used a thick epoxy.

I have not had great luck drilling stainless, if that is what the bolt is. With a high dollar mount, I would take it to someone that has the right tools to do it.

Good luck,
Dean

----- Original Message -----
From: "steve_dashiell" <dashiellyg1@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 10:56 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob


Since the top of the broken stud is 3 mm down in the threaded hole, if
glue of any sort is put on top of it and the other piece is threaded
in, any excess glue will be forced out of the space between the two
broken pieces and into the threads both above and below the break,
since there will be no where else the excess can go. I seriously
doubt that there is anything that can be done to seal the threads
adequately to prevent this, since the glue is relatively
incompressible. If the amount of glue used is so small that there is
no excess to squeeze out, it might work, but the proper amount is
probably difficult to estimate.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@...> wrote:

You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the
interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax
and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that
enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be
done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though.
Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out
wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.

Best of luck,
Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: steve_dashiell
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:17 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob


The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even with
proper equipment.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@> wrote:
>
>
> If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
> jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
> strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for
maybe a
> day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if
the
> remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
> walls.
>
> Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could
happen
> is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.
>
> Bryon
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed
to be
> > at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.
> >
> > Pete
> >
>








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Re: Broken clutch knob

steve_dashiell <dashiellyg1@...>
 

Since the top of the broken stud is 3 mm down in the threaded hole, if
glue of any sort is put on top of it and the other piece is threaded
in, any excess glue will be forced out of the space between the two
broken pieces and into the threads both above and below the break,
since there will be no where else the excess can go. I seriously
doubt that there is anything that can be done to seal the threads
adequately to prevent this, since the glue is relatively
incompressible. If the amount of glue used is so small that there is
no excess to squeeze out, it might work, but the proper amount is
probably difficult to estimate.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Mark Galiyano Jr" <mgjr@...> wrote:

You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the
interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax
and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that
enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be
done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though.
Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out
wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.

Best of luck,
Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: steve_dashiell
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:17 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob


The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even with
proper equipment.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@> wrote:
>
>
> If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
> jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
> strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for
maybe a
> day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if
the
> remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
> walls.
>
> Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could
happen
> is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.
>
> Bryon
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed
to be
> > at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.
> >
> > Pete
> >
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Broken clutch knob

Mlooker
 

Pete,
If the hole is not blind meaning the broken off blot is not rammed in tight (maybe use a pick and see if it moves). The easiest way I've found to extract a bolt is to use a left hand drill bit. Snap On sells a 5 piece set, just reverse your drill and usually the second you touch the broken bolt it spins right out.

Sometimes you need to use a center punch to create a starting point but you must determine that with your situation.

Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Santangeli
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 2:13 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob



Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed to be
at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.

Pete

--- In ap-gto@..., "Rick K" <JunkMailGoesHere@...> wrote:
>
> I am totally confused. If this is the problem, toss it in the garbage
> and order a new one from AP on Monday.
>
> I thought you were talking about the mount having a problem with a
> broken off threaded section in the mount itself. That is serious and
> is what a picture of would be worth a 1000 words.
>
> Rick.
>
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Maybe a picture is indeed worth 1000 words... Here is a shot of the
> > broken knob:
> >
> > http://www.santangeli.net/knob.jpg
> >
> > As you can see, the device is actually a hollow threaded aluminum tube
> > with the knob part screwed into it. The walls of the tube are not that
> > thick, but should take quite a bit of torque without breaking. All I
> > can assume is that the knob got banged longitudinally somehow, and the
> > tube broke.
> >
> > The rest of the tube (with the "outer" thread) is unfortunately still
> > in the mount.
> >
> > Pete
> >
> >
> > --- In ap-gto@..., Gregory Nottingham <gnpnotti@> wrote:
> > >
> > > My experience using Eazy Outs on exhaust studs on cylinder heads
has
> > > not been good. I know that the telescope situation is different.
> > > What is the diameter of screw? As long as you are sure that screw
> > > isn't cross-threaded, you should be alright but every-time I've
used
> > > one, I have gone in with the assumption that I will have to take
the
> > > head to a machine shop to drill out the stud and the broken,
> hardened
> > > steel Easy Out.
> > > Good luck.
> > > Greg
> > > On Dec 15, 2007, at 2:01, Peter Santangeli wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Good suggestion. I was thinking about something like this.
> > > >
> > > > Pete
> > > >
> > > > --- In ap-gto@..., kawasaki99@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Strong Man,
> > > > > Local hardware store ought to sell an (easy-out)
> > > > which is a
> > > > > sort of a left hand thread tap and the proper size pilot drill
> > > > for the
> > > > > easy-out. If it's only hand tight to ought to come out. Have an
> > > > assistant hold a
> > > > > vacuum cleaner hose close to broken screw while drilling the
pilot
> > > > hole to
> > > > > capture any small chips. A small center drill or sharp prick
punch
> > > > may be necessary
> > > > > to ensure the pilot drill puts the hole close to the true
> center of
> > > > the
> > > > > broken screw. Sounds like a lot but it's generally easy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated
recipes
> > > > >
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>


Re: Broken clutch knob

Mark Galiyano Jr <mgjr@...>
 

You can protect the threads from the glue by putting wax at the interface of the bolt and threads. Most glues will not adhear to wax and it forms a fairly good barrier. The thing that troubles me is that enough force was present to shear the bolt. I am not sure this can be done without an easy out. I do think and easy out will work though. Most of us that have had trouble with them were trying to get out wrench-tightened bolt remains, not hand tightened.

Best of luck,
Mark

----- Original Message -----
From: steve_dashiell
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 8:17 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Broken clutch knob


The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even with
proper equipment.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@...> wrote:
>
>
> If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
> jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
> strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for maybe a
> day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if the
> remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
> walls.
>
> Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could happen
> is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.
>
> Bryon
>
> --- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed to be
> > at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.
> >
> > Pete
> >
>


Re: Broken clutch knob

MrGrytt
 

--- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@...> wrote:


Sadly, while setting up today in my yard, I went to tighten one of
my RA clutch knobs on my AP900 and it snapped off in my hand. It
broke off about 5mm down, so that I can just see about 2 mm of the
bolt inside of it. The rest of the shaft is no doubt stuck down in
the hole it screws into.
There are a number of ways to tackle this if you want to avoid
letting a machine shop or AP do it.
Based on what you've described I can tell you how I would go
about things, given the described problem, and also assuming that the
end of the bolt can't/shouldn't be exceptionally tight in the threaded
hole. Hopefully no more than hand tight.
Take a small center-punch and carefully try to place a small
center-punch mark in the center of the broken shaft. Then take a very
small drill bit (about 1/16") and carefully and slowly drill a pilot
hole through the center-punch mark. Go slowly and carefully so you
don't break the drill bit. Drill to whatever depth makes sense, based
on the following step.
Get, buy, rent, a set of EZ-outs. Drill the recommended size
larger hole for the selected size EZ-out, by drilling into the smaller
pilot hole. Finally, use the EZ-out to extract the broken bolt, and
be careful not to break the EX-out.
If a decent amount of force won't back it out then go with a
larger size hole and larger EZ-out, if possible, before using more
force than the smaller tools will handle.


A couple of questions...

Is there a way for me to get the shaft out?
Hopefully.

Can I order a replacement?
Of course.

Am I stuck sending my RA assembly back to AP :-(
Not necessarily.

Any danger of me using it this way until a convenient time?
I would suspect there's no danger at all in using it.

Harvey


Re: Broken clutch knob

steve_dashiell <dashiellyg1@...>
 

The risk with this approach is that if any of the glue gets into the
threads of the broken off stub, it could end up acting like a thread
locker, making the broken piece difficult to remove at all, even with
proper equipment.

Steve

--- In ap-gto@..., "Bryon Schwartz" <bryonnmissy@...> wrote:


If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for maybe a
day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if the
remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
walls.

Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could happen
is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.

Bryon

--- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@> wrote:


Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed to be
at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.

Pete


Re: Broken clutch knob

Bryon Schwartz <bryonnmissy@...>
 

If the screw part that is still in the mount is not stripped or
jammed into the thread wall maybe try crazy glueing, or some other
strong epoxy, the knob back onto the bolt and let it set for maybe a
day and then try twisting it out SLOWLY. This might work ONLY if the
remaining part of the bolt is not jammed or stripped into the screw
walls.

Just my $.02 and can't hurt to try. The only thing that could happen
is the bolt will shear again at the point where you glued it.

Bryon

--- In ap-gto@..., "Peter Santangeli" <peter@...> wrote:


Indeed the problem is bad... that part I'm holding is supposed to be
at least 3/4 of an inch long. The rest is in the mount.

Pete


Re: Error in AP driver

Yves Laroche
 

Sorry Ajai, i complety forgot to mention that i'm using CP3 controller.

----- Original Message -----
From: Ajai Sehgal
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 4:57 PM
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver


Yup. If you have a CP1 or CP2 controller, never use the Horizon Check. It
is broken in the firmware.

Ajai

_____

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...] On Behalf Of
yves laroche
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:48 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

Hi Ajai,

I've got plenty of synchronization problem last summer until i decided to
uncheck the Use Horizon Check feature in your driver. I was able to slew to
objects when they were on the same meridian side but when they passed the
meridian, the mount tried to go upside down at each try. I've got this
problem on several nights until i decided to investigate and found that the
Use Horizon Check feature was causing the behavior . This feature was
checked during the last winter without any problem but the problem appeared
after daylight saving change. I'm running AP ASCOM version 4.1.25 and
helper2.dll is installed.

Maybe it's related or not with this thread bot i prefer to let you
know...just in case.

Yves

----- Original Message -----
From: Ajai Sehgal
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups. <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 1:23 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Error in AP driver

I have looked at the code and can't see anything that would cause
this. The code is common to all the drivers that I write and so far
no issues have been reported. Here is the code. If someone can spot
the error I am will certainly fix it:

'Get the longitude from the AP and convert it to degress
SiteLongitude = -m_Util.DMSToDegrees(CommandString("Gg"))

' Convert from AP 0-359 westward to ASCOM format +/- 180 +E
If SiteLongitude < -180# Then SiteLongitude = SiteLongitude + 360#

This is the entire AP documentation on the topic (leaves quite a bit
to be desired - as you can see is is VERY open to interpretation:

Command: :Gg#
Response: +DDD*MM# or +DDD*MM:SS# if long format
Gets the current longitude.

It would be helpful if you could send me a serial trace of what the
AP is reporting back when you query the longitude when east (I can't
get to my AP right now because it is in a dome and it is pouring rain
here - can't open the dome to get in - remote computer shut itself
down - sigh).

Please ensure that you have the updated helper2.dll installed from
the ASCOM site. This is required as the old version had a bug in it.

Ajai

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups. <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Chuck
Faranda" <mail_lists2@...>
wrote:
>
> FYI: Ajai is investigating the issue and will report ASAP.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck Faranda
> http://ccdastro. <http://ccdastro.net> net
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> I am running the latest driver for AP GTO mounts (4.1.25)
> >> under ASCOM 4. My mount is a Mach1.
> >> The reported site information is incorrect: after a Get
> >> Lat/Long is done, I get a correct value for Latitude, but
> >> Longitude is wrong:
> >> it reports
> >> E 4 10.00
> >> instead of
> >> E 5 50.00
> >> I checked the AP keypad: it's OK there.
> >> So I suspect a wrong conversion... possibly for all of us
> >> sitting E of Greenwich...
>

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