Date   

Re: having guiding problems

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 12/10/2007 10:05:03 PM Central Standard Time,
teche70@... writes:


How long could you go, unguided, with the Mach1 mount...under 800mm
FL.?
That will depend on how well drift aligned that you are. You can get the
periodic error down around 1 arc sec, so if you have less than 1 arc sec drift in
both axes for X minutes, then you will have 1 arc sec tracking for X minutes
and you will be able to go unguided for X minutes..

Rolando


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Re: having guiding problems

teche70
 

"Not necessary unless you want to do unguided imaging"
How long could you go, unguided, with the Mach1 mount...under 800mm
FL.?

Todd


--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 12/10/2007 1:59:26 PM Central Standard Time,
alanv12952@... writes:


Thank you for the guidance. I will attempt to view the ST-4
calibration at
next
opportunity.

Another question: should i run a 'PEM' routine before the above?
I have not
yet done so.

Alan
Not necessary unless you want to do unguided imaging. PEM is for
periodic
error compensation. That means during any unguided imaging, you can
drastically
reduce the priodic error (which is a very slow moving error that
crops up after
tracking for a fairly long time period within the 6.4 minute worm
cycle). The
error is small to begin with, between 3 and 5 arc seconds, so there
is no use
trying to chase your guiding problems with yet another issue - an
issue that
really does not affect guiding one iota.

Rolando



**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


StarGPS-NX GPS

Chris Spratt
 

Will the StarGPS-NX work with an 600E GOTO? What cable should I use (a
Meade)?

Thanks,

Chris Spratt
Victoria, BC


Re: having guiding problems

John Winfield
 

I've been calibration/guiding in Maxim at 0.5x since I was concerned
about what the minimum move time for the mount would be when doing
small corrections at the (relatively) high speed of 1x.
Running at 0.5x means the correction durations would be twice as long
as at 1x for a given guide star error.

What's the minimum move duration the mount (AP900) can reliably
perform at 1x?

John


--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 12/9/2007 1:09:22 PM Central Standard Time,
alanv12952@... writes:


All attempts to guide failed until I did the calibration at 0.5
speed, and
guiding at
0.25.
You MUST calibrate at 1x, otherwise you may not get good cal
numbers. With
the ST4 guider, you are working basically blind, so it won't be easy
for you to
figure out what is going on. You might want to place an eyepiece
into your
telescope while the ST4 is guiding, so you can see what is really
happening,
instead of relying on the numbers on the guider screen. Otherwise
you will be
forever groping in the dark, not knowing cause and effect.

Calibration at 1x is needed to get the proper amount of movement on
the guide
chip. Just make sure that the cal time is long enough to get 50 or
so pixel
movement, but not too long to run the star off the chip. You can
then adjust
the guide speed to 1x, .5x or .25x if you wish to slow down the
movement,
however .25x is almost never needed unless you have settings that
are somehow
screwy.

While the ST4 is calibrating, LOOK through your eyepiece so you can
understand what is happening. Again, if you don't do this at least
once with your
setup, then you will be forever wondering what is happening. If you
do use an
eyepiece, and things don't look right, then at least you can explain
to all of us
what you are seeing. Right now you can only say that something is
not working
right, so that leaves all of us to guess. Take the guesswork out of the
equation and LOOK! (that advise is for anyone who has any guiding
issues with their
equipment, no matter what equipment you are using).

Roland Christen




**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)




Re: having guiding problems

Alan Voetsch <alanv12952@...>
 

Roland,

Thank you for the guidance. I will attempt to view the ST-4 calibration at next
opportunity.

Another question: should i run a 'PEM' routine before the above? I have not yet done so.

Alan

--- chris1011@... wrote:
You MUST calibrate at 1x, otherwise you may not get good cal numbers. With
the ST4 guider, you are working basically blind, so it won't be easy for you to
figure out what is going on. You might want to place an eyepiece into your
telescope while the ST4 is guiding, so you can see what is really happening,
instead of relying on the numbers on the guider screen. Otherwise you will be
forever groping in the dark, not knowing cause and effect.

Calibration at 1x is needed to get the proper amount of movement on the guide
chip. Just make sure that the cal time is long enough to get 50 or so pixel
movement, but not too long to run the star off the chip. You can then adjust
the guide speed to 1x, .5x or .25x if you wish to slow down the movement,
however .25x is almost never needed unless you have settings that are somehow
screwy.

While the ST4 is calibrating, LOOK through your eyepiece so you can
understand what is happening. Again, if you don't do this at least once with your
setup, then you will be forever wondering what is happening. If you do use an
eyepiece, and things don't look right, then at least you can explain to all of us
what you are seeing. Right now you can only say that something is not working
right, so that leaves all of us to guess. Take the guesswork out of the
equation and LOOK! (that advise is for anyone who has any guiding issues with their
equipment, no matter what equipment you are using).


Astrophotography: http://www.pbase.com/avoetsch12952


Pempro A-P Special Edition-active when shipped?

Alan Voetsch <alanv12952@...>
 

The manual says that the error curve from the factory testing procedures is already
loaded into the the servo system. Is this active upon arrival, or not?

Thanks,
Alan



Astrophotography: http://www.pbase.com/avoetsch12952


next mount

dan janosick
 

Hi everyone,
I am looking to upgrae my current Celestron CGE mount to a new or
used AP mount. I currently use a CF C11 along with assorted
accessories so the weight is close to 50#'s but no more.
What AP mount would fit the bill?
thanks
danny


Re: having guiding problems

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 12/10/2007 2:00:09 PM Central Standard Time,
winfij@... writes:


I've been calibration/guiding in Maxim at 0.5x since I was concerned
about what the minimum move time for the mount would be when doing
small corrections at the (relatively) high speed of 1x.
Running at 0.5x means the correction durations would be twice as long
as at 1x for a given guide star error.

What's the minimum move duration the mount (AP900) can reliably
perform at 1x?
Minimum move is around 8 milliseconds, which means this:
8msec = .008 sec.
1x = 15 arc sec per sec.
Therefore 8 miliseconds at 1x = .008x15 = 0.12 arc seconds.

Rolando


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
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Re: having guiding problems

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 12/10/2007 1:59:26 PM Central Standard Time,
alanv12952@... writes:


Thank you for the guidance. I will attempt to view the ST-4 calibration at
next
opportunity.

Another question: should i run a 'PEM' routine before the above? I have not
yet done so.

Alan
Not necessary unless you want to do unguided imaging. PEM is for periodic
error compensation. That means during any unguided imaging, you can drastically
reduce the priodic error (which is a very slow moving error that crops up after
tracking for a fairly long time period within the 6.4 minute worm cycle). The
error is small to begin with, between 3 and 5 arc seconds, so there is no use
trying to chase your guiding problems with yet another issue - an issue that
really does not affect guiding one iota.

Rolando



**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


Re: Pempro A-P Special Edition-active when shipped?

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 12/10/2007 1:52:44 PM Central Standard Time,
alanv12952@... writes:


The manual says that the error curve from the factory testing procedures is
already
loaded into the the servo system. Is this active upon arrival, or not?

Thanks,
Alan
No, it is in memory, just as if you had placed your own curve into the memory
(PEM = Periodic Error Memory). Use the keypad to turn it on or off. You can
also use PEMPro to turn it on. In the keypad, PEM is located under Tools in the
Main Memory. Just follow the instructions on the PEM screen.

Rolando


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


Re: [OFF-LIST ap_gto] having guiding problems

Joe Mize
 

Sorry for this 'supposed' Private eMail, sometimes my ISP doesn't see that I removed the originating source of the eMail and use
the new address I typed in. Grrr...joe :(


"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W

------- Original Message -------
From : jmize@...[mailto:jmize@...]
Sent : 12/10/2007 7:32:21 AM
To : ap-gto@...
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] RE: [OFF-LIST ap_gto] having guiding problems

We get a lot of DSLR and CCD posts, but there still are some who shoot film. Actually, it
averages out to be about as busy as this list.

That's the reason I left APML. I still occasonally visit to read online or do some research.


I've asked that one before and the previous answer was that ST-4s aren't like that,
201XTs OTOH....

Well, all I can say is I always used at least 20-30 position change when calibrating. It's been awhile though.


DON'T. What I'm hearing on the AP group is that A-P is now applying
individual mount PEC's to each mount before they leave the AP Labs. All you
need to do is turn it on.
Tell me more, I assumed that was always on. If not, where is it located so I can turn it
on.

Dunno if it's shipped with customized PEC 'On' or 'Off'. Tough one from memory without the Handcontroller in my hand. Look in
the Settings section on the Handcontroller, it's a '1' or '0' switch, '1' being on. Fast way, look in your documentation for the
Menu tree for a faster way of finding the rout to the switch.

Right now, I seem to have the ST-4 working well. I calibrated with 1x and guiding with the same.

Great!!! Sorry I didn't check back later last night or I could have had the answer for you while you were running the mount. I
was Beta Hardware Testing Feather Touch's Temperature Probe for their Digita Micro Focuser. Almost got all worked out, the
Temperature Compensation moves are falling within 2-3 focuser positions of the following focusing cycle.

Hey do I remember correctly, do you have an AP155 now or is that someone else? Are you still Knife Edge focusing or are you
using an automated focusing routine like FocusMax?

If so, do you have the Feather Touch focuser knobs with the coarse and fine knobs? The FT Digital Micro Focuser is a "dream".
3micron steps, Very repeatable and strong. The focuser knob tensioner is completely loose yet the motor holds my STL11K and
field flattener without any trouble...joe :)

Alan






Astrophotography: http://www.pbase.com/avoetsch12952



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links






To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: having guiding problems

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 12/9/2007 1:09:22 PM Central Standard Time,
alanv12952@... writes:


All attempts to guide failed until I did the calibration at 0.5 speed, and
guiding at
0.25.
You MUST calibrate at 1x, otherwise you may not get good cal numbers. With
the ST4 guider, you are working basically blind, so it won't be easy for you to
figure out what is going on. You might want to place an eyepiece into your
telescope while the ST4 is guiding, so you can see what is really happening,
instead of relying on the numbers on the guider screen. Otherwise you will be
forever groping in the dark, not knowing cause and effect.

Calibration at 1x is needed to get the proper amount of movement on the guide
chip. Just make sure that the cal time is long enough to get 50 or so pixel
movement, but not too long to run the star off the chip. You can then adjust
the guide speed to 1x, .5x or .25x if you wish to slow down the movement,
however .25x is almost never needed unless you have settings that are somehow
screwy.

While the ST4 is calibrating, LOOK through your eyepiece so you can
understand what is happening. Again, if you don't do this at least once with your
setup, then you will be forever wondering what is happening. If you do use an
eyepiece, and things don't look right, then at least you can explain to all of us
what you are seeing. Right now you can only say that something is not working
right, so that leaves all of us to guess. Take the guesswork out of the
equation and LOOK! (that advise is for anyone who has any guiding issues with their
equipment, no matter what equipment you are using).

Roland Christen




**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


Re: [OFF-LIST ap_gto] having guiding problems

Joe Mize
 

We get a lot of DSLR and CCD posts, but there still are some who shoot film. Actually, it
averages out to be about as busy as this list.

That's the reason I left APML. I still occasonally visit to read online or do some research.


I've asked that one before and the previous answer was that ST-4s aren't like that,
201XTs OTOH....

Well, all I can say is I always used at least 20-30 position change when calibrating. It's been awhile though.


DON'T. What I'm hearing on the AP group is that A-P is now applying
individual mount PEC's to each mount before they leave the AP Labs. All you
need to do is turn it on.
Tell me more, I assumed that was always on. If not, where is it located so I can turn it
on.

Dunno if it's shipped with customized PEC 'On' or 'Off'. Tough one from memory without the Handcontroller in my hand. Look in
the Settings section on the Handcontroller, it's a '1' or '0' switch, '1' being on. Fast way, look in your documentation for the
Menu tree for a faster way of finding the rout to the switch.

Right now, I seem to have the ST-4 working well. I calibrated with 1x and guiding with the same.

Great!!! Sorry I didn't check back later last night or I could have had the answer for you while you were running the mount. I
was Beta Hardware Testing Feather Touch's Temperature Probe for their Digita Micro Focuser. Almost got all worked out, the
Temperature Compensation moves are falling within 2-3 focuser positions of the following focusing cycle.

Hey do I remember correctly, do you have an AP155 now or is that someone else? Are you still Knife Edge focusing or are you
using an automated focusing routine like FocusMax?

If so, do you have the Feather Touch focuser knobs with the coarse and fine knobs? The FT Digital Micro Focuser is a "dream".
3micron steps, Very repeatable and strong. The focuser knob tensioner is completely loose yet the motor holds my STL11K and
field flattener without any trouble...joe :)

Alan






Astrophotography: http://www.pbase.com/avoetsch12952



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: having guiding problems

Alan Voetsch <alanv12952@...>
 

Hey Joe,

--- Joe Mize <jmize@...> wrote:
Alan, APML must be Snooz Time. It sure was fun during the film era.
We get a lot of DSLR and CCD posts, but there still are some who shoot film. Actually, it
averages out to be about as busy as this list.

I usually use '5' but something went wrong last night so I went with '3' to
save time. I
will go back to 5.
Whatever gets you the largest move across the ST-4 chip without running off
the chip will generate 'more accurate' Cal numbers.
I've asked that one before and the previous answer was that ST-4s aren't like that,
201XTs OTOH....

DON'T. What I'm hearing on the AP group is that A-P is now applying
individual mount PEC's to each mount before they leave the AP Labs. All you
need to do is turn it on.
Tell me more, I assumed that was always on. If not, where is it located so I can turn it
on.

Right now, I seem to have the ST-4 working well. I calibrated with 1x and guiding with
the same.

Alan






Astrophotography: http://www.pbase.com/avoetsch12952


Re: having guiding problems

Joe Mize
 

There's still a few of us left on APML, not many though. I think the total
number is...7.
Alan, APML must be Snooz Time. It sure was fun during the film era.
Looks like you're heading in the right direction, check your AP
documentation and use
the recomnded Guide speed settings, 1x. I
also was stuck in the 0.5x mode until Roland said to use 1x for guiding.
It works.

OK. So, I should use 1x to calibrate AND guide. That's one I haven't tried,
maybe I
out-smarted myself, not the first time. ;-)
Yes! The numbers generated in Calibration are used to Guide. If you Cal at
1x and Guide at 0.5x then you'll have trouble Correcting, and visa versa.
The Cal numbers say you will move x pixels per second at 1x speed, if you
use 0.5x speed then you'll be undercorrecting big time.
Your ST-4 settings sound pretty good to me except for the Cal Time. But
that's
dependant upon your optics so try to get the
highest Cal Time without running the star off the chip in either
direction. You may
find one axis requires a longer drive time
than the other. Good Luck...joe :)
I usually use '5' but something went wrong last night so I went with '3' to
save time. I
will go back to 5.
Whatever gets you the largest move across the ST-4 chip without running off
the chip will generate 'more accurate' Cal numbers.

Looks like I can also do a PEM run, that may help with the guiding spikes.
DON'T. What I'm hearing on the AP group is that A-P is now applying
individual mount PEC's to each mount before they leave the AP Labs. All you
need to do is turn it on.
You can use the AP-PemPro to run a series of worm cycles to see what your PE
is 'without' PEC being on. Then run another series 'with' PEC turned on and
see the difference. People are reporting the advertised <4arc.sec without
PEC and some are reporting ~2arc.sec with PEC turned on.
I'd highly advise you purchasing the full version of PemPro so you can
Refine the already loaded PEC even further. I have mine down in the
0.1arc.sec Peak to Peak. You cannot Refine the PEC with the AP-PemPro
version. On 'very' stable nights I can image 5mins without guiding, at
other times I'm fighting air turbulence.
If you do buy PemPro I suggest you make 10 complete cycles of the worm.
PemPro says you 'can' get a good result with as little as 6 worm cycles. I
use 10 cycles to get the best possible curve. Something for you to do
during the Full Moon cycle.
You're going to Love your AP1200...joe :)


Thanks Joe,
Alan



Astrophotography: http://www.pbase.com/avoetsch12952



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Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: having guiding problems

Alan Voetsch <alanv12952@...>
 

Hey Joe,

--- "jmize@..." <jmize@...> wrote:
Alan, you are an ol' warhorse, still using an ST-4 and film!!! Talk about being a
rarity, I wonder how many out there are still
film based.
There's still a few of us left on APML, not many though. I think the total number is...7.

Looks like you're heading in the right direction, check your AP documentation and use
the recomnded Guide speed settings, 1x. I
also was stuck in the 0.5x mode until Roland said to use 1x for guiding. It works.
OK. So, I should use 1x to calibrate AND guide. That's one I haven't tried, maybe I
out-smarted myself, not the first time. ;-)

Your ST-4 settings sound pretty good to me except for the Cal Time. But that's
dependant upon your optics so try to get the
highest Cal Time without running the star off the chip in either direction. You may
find one axis requires a longer drive time
than the other. Good Luck...joe :)
I usually use '5' but something went wrong last night so I went with '3' to save time. I
will go back to 5.

Looks like I can also do a PEM run, that may help with the guiding spikes.

Thanks Joe,
Alan



Astrophotography: http://www.pbase.com/avoetsch12952


Re: having guiding problems

Joe Mize
 

Alan, you are an ol' warhorse, still using an ST-4 and film!!! Talk about being a rarity, I wonder how many out there are still
film based.

Looks like you're heading in the right direction, check your AP documentation and use the recomnded Guide speed settings, 1x. I
also was stuck in the 0.5x mode until Roland said to use 1x for guiding. It works.

Then go to the Backlash settings section and check what it should be, if I remember correctly mine says 0.3 in DEC, 0.0 in RA.
Since you have a newer AP1200 you my have a different setting recomendation in the documentaion. Once you've performed the
tests 'visually' confirming your star doesn't jump or hesitate when reversing direction then calibrate your ST-4.

Your ST-4 settings sound pretty good to me except for the Cal Time. But that's dependant upon your optics so try to get the
highest Cal Time without running the star off the chip in either direction. You may find one axis requires a longer drive time
than the other. Good Luck...joe :)


"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W

------- Original Message -------
From : Alan Voetsch[mailto:alanv12952@...]
Sent : 12/9/2007 1:41:56 PM
To : ap-gto@...
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] having guiding problems

Hey all,

Still getting familiar with the new 1200 which arrived in late Oct. Had a few
opportunites (weather has sucked since mid-Sept) to use the FS-102 for a few comet shots
and managed to do the meridian delay alignment routine. There were no problems during
this time, other than operator errors.

My 12" LX200 'R' OTA arrived about 10 days ago. At this point it is balanced in both
axis', and OTA is collimated. Last night had some clearing so i tried to image the HH. I
am shooting film (OM-1) at prime focus and using a standalone ST-4 (no computer in my
observatory) and Taurus Tracker III OAG to guide.

All attempts to guide failed until I did the calibration at 0.5 speed, and guiding at
0.25. These settings worked for about 90 minutes, then the guidestar was lost. Actually i
think it's more a case of the ST-4 moving the GS TOO much, until it's off the chip. I may
try .25 for both next chance I get.

I plan to check RA and Dec backlash to see if either of those are a problem. I did not
stay out in the observatory the whole time, but I did notice that there were some large
spikes where the correction indicated was 'E' for a couple times, then it would settle
down to 1-4.

This OAG and ST-4 have worked well with the previous scope, a stock 12" LX200 classic.

So, I'm hoping that someone who has used a similar setup may have some areas for me to
check. Like I say, I am used to setting the the ST-4's parameters for a fork mounted
LX200 and possibly I am using a setting incorrectly. Last night i used 5 second exposure,
boost of '2', average, no backlash adjustment, cal '3' both ways, scintillation '4', and
a correction after each exposure.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Alan

Astrophotography: http://www.pbase.com/avoetsch12952



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links


having guiding problems

Alan Voetsch <alanv12952@...>
 

Hey all,

Still getting familiar with the new 1200 which arrived in late Oct. Had a few
opportunites (weather has sucked since mid-Sept) to use the FS-102 for a few comet shots
and managed to do the meridian delay alignment routine. There were no problems during
this time, other than operator errors.

My 12" LX200 'R' OTA arrived about 10 days ago. At this point it is balanced in both
axis', and OTA is collimated. Last night had some clearing so i tried to image the HH. I
am shooting film (OM-1) at prime focus and using a standalone ST-4 (no computer in my
observatory) and Taurus Tracker III OAG to guide.

All attempts to guide failed until I did the calibration at 0.5 speed, and guiding at
0.25. These settings worked for about 90 minutes, then the guidestar was lost. Actually i
think it's more a case of the ST-4 moving the GS TOO much, until it's off the chip. I may
try .25 for both next chance I get.

I plan to check RA and Dec backlash to see if either of those are a problem. I did not
stay out in the observatory the whole time, but I did notice that there were some large
spikes where the correction indicated was 'E' for a couple times, then it would settle
down to 1-4.

This OAG and ST-4 have worked well with the previous scope, a stock 12" LX200 classic.

So, I'm hoping that someone who has used a similar setup may have some areas for me to
check. Like I say, I am used to setting the the ST-4's parameters for a fork mounted
LX200 and possibly I am using a setting incorrectly. Last night i used 5 second exposure,
boost of '2', average, no backlash adjustment, cal '3' both ways, scintillation '4', and
a correction after each exposure.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Alan

Astrophotography: http://www.pbase.com/avoetsch12952


Re: Mach 1 counterweight

Kurt Mihalco <mihalco@...>
 

Hi Jean-Yves,
If you have the short, large diameter shaft, then yes, you can add
the shaft extension. See:
http://www.astro-physics.com/products/accessories\;
/mounting_acc/cwshaftoptions.htm
You can also use one of the longer shafts. I use the 14"x1-7/8"
shaft on my Mach1 and it works well.
Regards,
Kurt Mihalco

--- In ap-gto@..., "jybeninger" <jy@...> wrote:

Hi,

I have a question about counterweights:
I tested last night my LX200R10" + AO7 + ST8XME on the Mach1.

I was short in counterweights: I use the shorter optional shaft and
the
reduced offset distance does not give enought moment of inertia to
balance the OTA +++

I realised this morning that I could screw the normal shaft to the
end
of the optional shaft and that addaitional offset weight would give
me
a good balance.

Has anyone already done it? Any counter indications? Or does Astro-
Physics sell a shaft extension for taht short optional shaft?

Thanks

Jean-Yves


Mach 1 counterweight

jybeninger
 

Hi,

I have a question about counterweights:
I tested last night my LX200R10" + AO7 + ST8XME on the Mach1.

I was short in counterweights: I use the shorter optional shaft and the
reduced offset distance does not give enought moment of inertia to
balance the OTA +++

I realised this morning that I could screw the normal shaft to the end
of the optional shaft and that addaitional offset weight would give me
a good balance.

Has anyone already done it? Any counter indications? Or does Astro-
Physics sell a shaft extension for taht short optional shaft?

Thanks

Jean-Yves