Date   

Re: multispectral imaging was RE: Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Rick Thurmond
 

I might be interested in whether the bird was approaching me or leaving
me. Or perhaps rotating. How difficult would it be to find some
narrowband filters tuned a little above or below laboratory emission line
values so you could do doppler imaging? Could that be done with an
amateur scope?

If I were to want to image a bird for scientific purposes I'd probably be
interested in a thermal profile, an optical profile and possibly a UV
reflectivity profile if it were imaged in the outdoors in the sun. It
might be interesting to examine the bird in polarized light too. You never
know until you try.

In short in knowing a thing or two about the target, I would choose the
appropriate wavelengths to do a multi or hyperspectral analysis of the
bird.

By analogy when one uses nebular diagnostic filters, as narrowband
emission line filters are occasionally called by scientists, for imaging
nebulae, you actually deconstruct the nebula and can observe features
that may otherwise be obscured by broadband radiation.

an example of alternate ways to image the same object can be found in
this image, all shot from my backyard in mag 3 light polluted skies with
my 18" defective telescope mounted on an AP1200GTO mount and guided with
an ST7E on a lumicon giant easy guider with reducer.

http://www.narrowbandimaging.com/images/crisp_crab_5_ways_to_sunday_vga.jpg

each method was specifically chosen to reveal different aspects of this
most interesting laboratory in the sky.

I just like having a toolkit to let me do something a bit off the well
travelled road for the sheer adventure of the journey.


Jeff Young <jey@adobe.com> wrote:
> I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could
image a bird
in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the result
looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would want to
see the
real colors.
I dunno. I think Andy Warhol's stuff commands a higher price than Ansel
Adams'.

But I do agree that a narrowband image should be obviously labelled
(somehow).
That's one problem Mr. Warhol didn't have as he chose everyday objects
-- so
his viewers knew what they were "supposed" to look like.

-- Jeff.


________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:33 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor



I don't think they find much value in RGB or LRGB images.

I find them exceedingly boring quite frankly.
You may find them boring but unlike false color images they
attempt to reflect
reality. :-)

I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image
a bird in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the
result looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would
want to see the
real colors.

-Ray















Re: PEMPro questions

Joe Mize
 

Thkx Ray, my apologies I saw the Buy section with PemPro 2.0 but no Upgrades. The Software Upgrades section was just below the
bottom of the displayed page. I almost missed it again this morning like I had when I looked previously. Thkx again...joe :)


"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W

------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[mailto:rgr@gralak.com]
Sent : 8/9/2007 11:19:52 PM
To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Joe,

Users with a V1.x license can upgrade for $75. Go to the link below and scroll
down to "Software upgrades":

http://www.ccdware.com/buy/

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of jmize@svic.net
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:56 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Ray did I understand what you're saying? There's currently no
"Upgrade" rout for owners who paid the full commercial price
without buying another complete new $149 program? Ouch!

I liked PemProAP so much I bought the commercial version. I'd
surely like to upgrade my Version 1.70 - Feb 26, 2007 (Build 147),
to Version 2.0 even if I have to pay an "Upgrade" price, I
cannot justify buying another complete program.

I couldn't find anything on the CCDware web page about
Upgrades. Is an Upgrade offer even being discussed?...joe :)

"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
< http://www.cav-sfo.com/>
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W

------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[ mailto:rgr@gralak.com < mailto:rgr%40gralak.com> ]
Sent : 8/9/2007 11:51:45 AM
To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com < mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Thanks Howard, that is correct!

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
< mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> [
mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com < mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On Behalf Of howard4ap
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:10 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com < mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Hey Joe,

The latest build of the full version without going to v.2.0
is build
147. Build 149 pertains only to the A-P Special Edition.

Howard

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com < mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
< mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "jmize@..." <jmize@...> wrote:

Ray, when I ran Check for Updates my full version PemPro
reported I
have the latest release, ver. 1.70 Build 147, 02-26-2007.
You said below the latest release is Build 149. Is there some
place special where to check for the latest release?
Thkx...joe :)


"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
< http://www.cav-sfo.com/>
< http://www.cav-sfo.com/ < http://www.cav-sfo.com/> >
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W


------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[ mailto:rgr@...]
Sent : 8/9/2007 9:42:28 AM
To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
< mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> < mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] PEMPro questions

Hi Chris,

1) What is the current version of the AP edition of PEMPro?
The current version is V1.7 Build 149. You can use the check for
updates feature
in the Help menu to get the latest version if you do not have it.

2) What does PEMPro v2 do that the special edition doesn't?
The special edition is designed to work specifically with AP GTO
Mounts with the
GTOCP3 controller. You will not be able to use it with
other mounts
including
older AP mounts with GTOCP2 and GTOCP1 controllers. Also
you cannot
use PEMPro's
refine curve feature.

V2 adds new functionality including a Polar Alignment Wizard, a
Backlash
exerciser (PulseGuide already has a tool for this), a Star Finder
utility, and
native support for webcams (so you can use PEMPro without
having to
buy an
expensive 3rd-party CCD program).

3) As an AP owner that got version 1.something with my
mount, am I
eligible to purchase the v2 upgrade? Can I install a dl'ed
version of
v2 or would I need a "special" upgrade also?
For V.1x there was an upgrade path from the AP version to
the full
version, but
I do not think AP and CCDWare (the publisher) have talked
about an
upgrade path
to V2. Of course you can download a 60-day trial of the full
version from the
CCDWare site ( http://www.ccdware.com < http://www.ccdware.com>
< http://www.ccdware.com < http://www.ccdware.com> > ).
Additional questions about
the full
version should be posted to the PEMPro forum:
http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x
< http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x>
< http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x
< http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x> >

-Ray Gralak
Author of PulseGuide and PEMPro




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Sim 3-188 - SNR in Cygnus

ayiomamitis
 

Dear group,

Fortunate to have a really good string of great weather and good
seeing, I sat down last night to pursue Pickering's Triangle (aka Sim
3-188) within the Veil Complex.

I pursued an LRGB approach (108:60:60:60) and it is obvious that the
plethora of stars is becoming a distraction. I must revisit using an
h-alpha approach.

For a glimpse of last night's effort, I kindly direct you to
http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-DSO-Nebulae-Sim-3-188.htm . It was also my
first use of the AP 0.75x TVPH reducer and I would like to sit down at
some point for some plate solving so as to get the precise reduction
the unit offers.

Anthony.


Re: Mount does not stop

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/10/2007 2:54:41 AM Central Daylight Time, jey@adobe.com
writes:


Um... that would be your office.
I'm not in the office myself. The office staff won't let me interfere
(otherwise there would be chaos for sure!)


But I'll give Alice or Howard a jingle.
Good idea. Howard is very knowledgeable on technical aspects and Alice is
always on top of orders and delivery info.

Me - I know nothing, nothing ....

Rolando


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new
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Re: NGC 6995/IC 1340 - SNR in Cygnus

ayiomamitis
 

Hi Ray,

I am with you surrounding the earlier discussion of RGB vs narrowband.
However, I do understand and respect the need for the latter when
someone is burdened with light-pollution.

As a result, RGB is my modus operandi for now given my decent skies.

Anthony.

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

Hi Anthony,

I just got a chance to look at your image. I think it is very nicely
done and
exciting, even though it is a RGB image! :-) :-)

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of ayiomamitis
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:37 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] NGC 6995/IC 1340 - SNR in Cygnus

Dear group,

I have always had a weakness for the Veil complex and last night I
sat down to acquire 4.5 hours of total exposure data (LRGB @
90:60:60:60) for the southeastern portion which comprises of NGC 6995
and IC 1340. I would have liked a little more RGB exposure data but
the OTA and pier got too close for comfort.

The result is available at
http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-DSO-NGC-6995.htm
<http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-DSO-NGC-6995.htm> ... it is one of the
relatively few situations where green does show up as part of the
visual spectrum in relation to a DSO object.

Anthony.





Re: Mount does not stop

Jeff Young <jey@...>
 

Roland --

Um... that would be your office.

But I'll give Alice or Howard a jingle.

Thanks,
-- Jeff.



________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of chris1011@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:43 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop



In a message dated 8/9/2007 1:16:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
jey@adobe.com <mailto:jey%40adobe.com>
writes:

> Speaking of spares, I have some servo-to-motor cable on
back-order. Did
> it ever come in?

I donno. You might want to ask the office with whom you
originally ordered
the part.

Rolando

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new
AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>


Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Peter Santangeli
 

Different strokes for different folks.

I personally find narrow band images pretty unattractive. But I have no ambitions to do
science, which is difficult, but clearly possible for amateurs - just ask the many comet
discoverers that are still successful in this day of automated surveys. I would not cast
public dispersions on those who take narrow band - it's a hobby. To each his own.

A good observational astronomer friend of mine once asked me what the point was in
taking (RGB) pictures of something that had been taken a million times before. The
conversation sort of went like this:

Friend: Yet another picture of M31?!
Me: Yeah. It'll be better this year.
Friend: But hasn't it been photographed a million times?
Me: Yeah. By the way, did you say you had been to the Grand Canyon?
Friend: Yes, years ago.
Me: Did you take pictures?
Friend: Of course!.... oh...

Whatever floats your boat.

pete

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Young" <jey@...> wrote:

I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image a bird
in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the result
looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would want to
see the
real colors.
I dunno. I think Andy Warhol's stuff commands a higher price than Ansel
Adams'.

But I do agree that a narrowband image should be obviously labelled
(somehow).
That's one problem Mr. Warhol didn't have as he chose everyday objects
-- so
his viewers knew what they were "supposed" to look like.

-- Jeff.



________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:33 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor



> I don't think they find much value in RGB or LRGB images.
>
> I find them exceedingly boring quite frankly.

You may find them boring but unlike false color images they
attempt to reflect
reality. :-)

I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image
a bird in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the
result looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would
want to see the
real colors.

-Ray









Re: Mount does not stop

Joe Zeglinski
 

So ... an intermittent problem - could it be a bad cable connection, in that
case? Give them a shake, and see if the problem returns. Perhaps the Y-cable
connector was just pushed on, rather than fully tightened down. Otherwise, it
will get you, just when you need the mount to work.

Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Salman" <cluster@ccdimages.com>
To: <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:39 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop


Thanks for the tips. The mount was purchased new and was mounted in
an observatory not use all that often. I picked it up from the
observatory and in a nut shell, it s in new condition.

I will check the mesh, last night this issue never happened and the
pointing was perfect, I moved to about 10 objects and took an image,
it was almost perfectly in the center every time.


--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/8/2007 7:37:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@... writes:


This is a used but only 4 years old. I will look at the worm mesh
which makes more sense. Again, as long as moving the mount with
TheSky does not cause issues, then I don't care.
Whether being moved by TheSky or by TheKeypad, the motors are
always only
controlled by the servo controller. The problem is not in TheSky or
TheKeypad -
they are simply software word generators - the problem must be
adressed in the
actual electrical portion of the mount. Please understand that
software cannot
move motors directly, it is the capture of the software words by
the servo
and then translating those words into electrical signals sent to
the motors that
results in the mechanical movement.

here are the possibilities:

1: not enough voltage for the motors to do the job being told by
the software
2: very tight worm mesh (can be caused by improper packing when the
mount was
sent via UPS or other carrier which can cause the motor box to jam
into the
worm).
3: faulty receiver/transmitter chip (UART chip) inside the servo
box - this
normally is a total failure, not intermittent and will cause total
failure to
communicate.

If it is inside the servo box (CP2 or CP3), the mount can not be
controlled
from an external source such as the keypad or a computer, but the
motors will
still track at the sidereal rate. If the worm mesh is too tight,
then the
motors will not be able to keep up with the commanded motion, will
fall behind and
will try to catch up even after receiving a stop signal (stop
signal =
direction key not pressed).

If the mount has been purchased second hand, it is a good idea to
go over the
mount mechanically to make sure that all items work. It is quite
common for a
3rd party to pack the mount inadequately and ship it with little or
no
protection on the motor gearboxes. These motor boxes can be forced
into the worm by
blows received during shipping. You can check this easily when you
receive the
mount. Remove the motor gear covers and try turning the large spur
gear by
hand. If it moves freely, the motors can do their job. If it feels
tight, you
will need to reset the worm mesh - a job so simple that even I can
do it!!

Rolando


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Re: Mount does not stop

Joe Zeglinski
 

Yes, Roland, I agree. We should do as much as we possibly can to examine
symptoms, and try to fathom what is going on. However, my suggestion was a
last ditch approach, before giving up and shipping everything back - which is
a hassle for all concerned, and an expense.

However some owners are not as analytical as others, so they may want to
give up and just ask you to just make the problem go away. Your time is
valuable to all of us. Sending "test parts", would be better in that case.

Meanwhile, it might even be useful to purchase a spare power and Y-cable,
just to have it in hand when the cable gets nicked, or the connectors go
funny. At least we would save the long turn around time if the problem turns
out to be one of the cables - they are probably cheaper than mount shipping
charges.

Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: <chris1011@aol.com>
To: <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop


In a message dated 8/8/2007 9:47:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
J.Zeglinski@rogers.com writes:


I wonder if a "test exchange" system could be implemented. When really
stumped, in a pinch, it would be nice to get a known working controller
and/or
keypad, and cables, on a 7 day debug loan - a credit card buys it, if not
returned in time. That would allow eliminating the servos, and perhaps
narrow
down the problem to one of the 3 other components - controller, keypad, or
cables.
Certainly, we have done that. However, if the customer can do a few simple
tests and adjustments ahead of time it narrows things down quickly and helps
us
to the final soution. Just throwing up hands and saying it doesn't work is
not
helpful to me.

Rolando


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Re: PEMPro questions

Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
 

Joe,

Users with a V1.x license can upgrade for $75. Go to the link below and scroll
down to "Software upgrades":

http://www.ccdware.com/buy/

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of jmize@svic.net
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:56 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Ray did I understand what you're saying? There's currently no
"Upgrade" rout for owners who paid the full commercial price
without buying another complete new $149 program? Ouch!

I liked PemProAP so much I bought the commercial version. I'd
surely like to upgrade my Version 1.70 - Feb 26, 2007 (Build 147),
to Version 2.0 even if I have to pay an "Upgrade" price, I
cannot justify buying another complete program.

I couldn't find anything on the CCDware web page about
Upgrades. Is an Upgrade offer even being discussed?...joe :)

"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
<http://www.cav-sfo.com/>
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W

------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[mailto:rgr@gralak.com <mailto:rgr%40gralak.com> ]
Sent : 8/9/2007 11:51:45 AM
To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Thanks Howard, that is correct!

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> [
mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On Behalf Of howard4ap
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:10 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Hey Joe,

The latest build of the full version without going to v.2.0
is build
147. Build 149 pertains only to the A-P Special Edition.

Howard

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
< mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "jmize@..." <jmize@...> wrote:

Ray, when I ran Check for Updates my full version PemPro
reported I
have the latest release, ver. 1.70 Build 147, 02-26-2007.
You said below the latest release is Build 149. Is there some
place special where to check for the latest release?
Thkx...joe :)


"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
<http://www.cav-sfo.com/>
< http://www.cav-sfo.com/ <http://www.cav-sfo.com/> >
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W


------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[ mailto:rgr@...]
Sent : 8/9/2007 9:42:28 AM
To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> < mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] PEMPro questions

Hi Chris,

1) What is the current version of the AP edition of PEMPro?
The current version is V1.7 Build 149. You can use the check for
updates feature
in the Help menu to get the latest version if you do not have it.

2) What does PEMPro v2 do that the special edition doesn't?
The special edition is designed to work specifically with AP GTO
Mounts with the
GTOCP3 controller. You will not be able to use it with
other mounts
including
older AP mounts with GTOCP2 and GTOCP1 controllers. Also
you cannot
use PEMPro's
refine curve feature.

V2 adds new functionality including a Polar Alignment Wizard, a
Backlash
exerciser (PulseGuide already has a tool for this), a Star Finder
utility, and
native support for webcams (so you can use PEMPro without
having to
buy an
expensive 3rd-party CCD program).

3) As an AP owner that got version 1.something with my
mount, am I
eligible to purchase the v2 upgrade? Can I install a dl'ed
version of
v2 or would I need a "special" upgrade also?
For V.1x there was an upgrade path from the AP version to
the full
version, but
I do not think AP and CCDWare (the publisher) have talked
about an
upgrade path
to V2. Of course you can download a 60-day trial of the full
version from the
CCDWare site ( http://www.ccdware.com <http://www.ccdware.com>
< http://www.ccdware.com <http://www.ccdware.com> > ).
Additional questions about
the full
version should be posted to the PEMPro forum:
http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x
<http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x>
< http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x
<http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x> >

-Ray Gralak
Author of PulseGuide and PEMPro




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Re: PEMPro questions

Joe Mize
 

Ray did I understand what you're saying? There's currently no "Upgrade" rout for owners who paid the full commercial price
without buying another complete new $149 program? Ouch!

I liked PemProAP so much I bought the commercial version. I'd surely like to upgrade my Version 1.70 - Feb 26, 2007 (Build 147),
to Version 2.0 even if I have to pay an "Upgrade" price, I cannot justify buying another complete program.

I couldn't find anything on the CCDware web page about Upgrades. Is an Upgrade offer even being discussed?...joe :)


"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W

------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[mailto:rgr@gralak.com]
Sent : 8/9/2007 11:51:45 AM
To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Thanks Howard, that is correct!

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [ mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of howard4ap
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:10 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Hey Joe,

The latest build of the full version without going to v.2.0 is build
147. Build 149 pertains only to the A-P Special Edition.

Howard

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
< mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "jmize@..." <jmize@...> wrote:

Ray, when I ran Check for Updates my full version PemPro reported I
have the latest release, ver. 1.70 Build 147, 02-26-2007.
You said below the latest release is Build 149. Is there some
place special where to check for the latest release?
Thkx...joe :)


"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
< http://www.cav-sfo.com/>
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W


------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[ mailto:rgr@...]
Sent : 8/9/2007 9:42:28 AM
To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com < mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] PEMPro questions

Hi Chris,

1) What is the current version of the AP edition of PEMPro?
The current version is V1.7 Build 149. You can use the check for
updates feature
in the Help menu to get the latest version if you do not have it.

2) What does PEMPro v2 do that the special edition doesn't?
The special edition is designed to work specifically with AP GTO
Mounts with the
GTOCP3 controller. You will not be able to use it with other mounts
including
older AP mounts with GTOCP2 and GTOCP1 controllers. Also you cannot
use PEMPro's
refine curve feature.

V2 adds new functionality including a Polar Alignment Wizard, a
Backlash
exerciser (PulseGuide already has a tool for this), a Star Finder
utility, and
native support for webcams (so you can use PEMPro without having to
buy an
expensive 3rd-party CCD program).

3) As an AP owner that got version 1.something with my mount, am I
eligible to purchase the v2 upgrade? Can I install a dl'ed
version of
v2 or would I need a "special" upgrade also?
For V.1x there was an upgrade path from the AP version to the full
version, but
I do not think AP and CCDWare (the publisher) have talked about an
upgrade path
to V2. Of course you can download a 60-day trial of the full
version from the
CCDWare site ( http://www.ccdware.com
< http://www.ccdware.com> ). Additional questions about
the full
version should be posted to the PEMPro forum:
http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x
< http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x>

-Ray Gralak
Author of PulseGuide and PEMPro




To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
< http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto>
Yahoo! Groups Links





To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: PEMPro questions

Joe Mize
 

Ahhhh! I was hoping to get ahold of the Polar Alignment tool and the other one Ray mentioned. I wonder when these will become
available to us who purchased the full version PemPro? Thkx...joe :)


"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W

------- Original Message -------
From : howard4ap[mailto:howard@astro-physics.com]
Sent : 8/9/2007 11:09:45 AM
To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions

Hey Joe,

The latest build of the full version without going to v.2.0 is build
147. Build 149 pertains only to the A-P Special Edition.

Howard

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "jmize@..." <jmize@...> wrote:

Ray, when I ran Check for Updates my full version PemPro reported I
have the latest release, ver. 1.70 Build 147, 02-26-2007.
You said below the latest release is Build 149. Is there some
place special where to check for the latest release?
Thkx...joe :)


"May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars"

Joe Mize
StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/
Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W


------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[ mailto:rgr@...]
Sent : 8/9/2007 9:42:28 AM
To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Cc :
Subject : RE: [ap-gto] PEMPro questions

Hi Chris,

1) What is the current version of the AP edition of PEMPro?
The current version is V1.7 Build 149. You can use the check for
updates feature
in the Help menu to get the latest version if you do not have it.

2) What does PEMPro v2 do that the special edition doesn't?
The special edition is designed to work specifically with AP GTO
Mounts with the
GTOCP3 controller. You will not be able to use it with other mounts
including
older AP mounts with GTOCP2 and GTOCP1 controllers. Also you cannot
use PEMPro's
refine curve feature.

V2 adds new functionality including a Polar Alignment Wizard, a
Backlash
exerciser (PulseGuide already has a tool for this), a Star Finder
utility, and
native support for webcams (so you can use PEMPro without having to
buy an
expensive 3rd-party CCD program).

3) As an AP owner that got version 1.something with my mount, am I
eligible to purchase the v2 upgrade? Can I install a dl'ed
version of
v2 or would I need a "special" upgrade also?
For V.1x there was an upgrade path from the AP version to the full
version, but
I do not think AP and CCDWare (the publisher) have talked about an
upgrade path
to V2. Of course you can download a 60-day trial of the full
version from the
CCDWare site ( http://www.ccdware.com ). Additional questions about
the full
version should be posted to the PEMPro forum:
http://ccdware.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x

-Ray Gralak
Author of PulseGuide and PEMPro




To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links



To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: multispectral imaging was RE: Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
 

Richard,

I think you can and should image whatever way you like. I think the point is
that it is probably a good idea that people clearly mark false-colored
narrowband images as being, well, false-colored, and that no attempt was made to
portray the objects as they actually appear. I don't think we want the average
web-browsing individual to think the colors in color-mapped images reflect
reality. (Of course we don't have to do that for monochrome images if they are
B/W).

Now I hope we can all agree to get back on-topic!

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Richard Crisp
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 2:08 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: multispectral imaging was RE: [ap-gto] Re: New
images with the 140EDF refractor

If I were to want to image a bird for scientific purposes I'd
probably be interested in a thermal profile, an optical
profile and possibly a UV reflectivity profile if it were
imaged in the outdoors in the sun. It might be interesting to
examine the bird in polarized light too. You never know until you try.

In short in knowing a thing or two about the target, I would
choose the appropriate wavelengths to do a multi or
hyperspectral analysis of the bird.

By analogy when one uses nebular diagnostic filters, as
narrowband emission line filters are occasionally called by
scientists, for imaging nebulae, you actually deconstruct the
nebula and can observe features that may otherwise be
obscured by broadband radiation.

an example of alternate ways to image the same object can be
found in this image, all shot from my backyard in mag 3 light
polluted skies with my 18" defective telescope mounted on an
AP1200GTO mount and guided with an ST7E on a lumicon giant
easy guider with reducer.

http://www.narrowbandimaging.com/images/crisp_crab_5_ways_to_s
unday_vga.jpg > <http://www.narrowbandimaging.com/images/crisp_crab_5_ways_to_
sunday_vga.jpg>

each method was specifically chosen to reveal different
aspects of this most interesting laboratory in the sky.

I just like having a toolkit to let me do something a bit off
the well travelled road for the sheer adventure of the journey.


Jeff Young <jey@adobe.com <mailto:jey%40adobe.com> > wrote:
I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could
image a bird
in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the result
looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people
would want to
see the
real colors.
I dunno. I think Andy Warhol's stuff commands a higher price
than Ansel
Adams'.

But I do agree that a narrowband image should be obviously labelled
(somehow).
That's one problem Mr. Warhol didn't have as he chose everyday objects
-- so
his viewers knew what they were "supposed" to look like.

-- Jeff.

________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:33 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

I don't think they find much value in RGB or LRGB images.

I find them exceedingly boring quite frankly.
You may find them boring but unlike false color images they
attempt to reflect
reality. :-)

I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image
a bird in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the
result looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would
want to see the
real colors.

-Ray









multispectral imaging was RE: Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Richard Crisp
 

If I were to want to image a bird for scientific purposes I'd probably be interested in a thermal profile, an optical profile and possibly a UV reflectivity profile if it were imaged in the outdoors in the sun. It might be interesting to examine the bird in polarized light too. You never know until you try.

In short in knowing a thing or two about the target, I would choose the appropriate wavelengths to do a multi or hyperspectral analysis of the bird.

By analogy when one uses nebular diagnostic filters, as narrowband emission line filters are occasionally called by scientists, for imaging nebulae, you actually deconstruct the nebula and can observe features that may otherwise be obscured by broadband radiation.

an example of alternate ways to image the same object can be found in this image, all shot from my backyard in mag 3 light polluted skies with my 18" defective telescope mounted on an AP1200GTO mount and guided with an ST7E on a lumicon giant easy guider with reducer.

http://www.narrowbandimaging.com/images/crisp_crab_5_ways_to_sunday_vga.jpg

each method was specifically chosen to reveal different aspects of this most interesting laboratory in the sky.

I just like having a toolkit to let me do something a bit off the well travelled road for the sheer adventure of the journey.


Jeff Young <jey@adobe.com> wrote:
> I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image a bird
in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the result
looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would want to
see the
real colors.
I dunno. I think Andy Warhol's stuff commands a higher price than Ansel
Adams'.

But I do agree that a narrowband image should be obviously labelled
(somehow).
That's one problem Mr. Warhol didn't have as he chose everyday objects
-- so
his viewers knew what they were "supposed" to look like.

-- Jeff.


________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:33 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor



I don't think they find much value in RGB or LRGB images.

I find them exceedingly boring quite frankly.
You may find them boring but unlike false color images they
attempt to reflect
reality. :-)

I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image
a bird in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the
result looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would
want to see the
real colors.

-Ray


Re: Mount does not stop

Jeff Young <jey@...>
 

Dean --

The problem sounds fairly intermittent. Do you unplug the
cigarette-plug end of the power cord each evening? The run-ons happened
to me a couple of times a few years ago, and I believe I tracked it down
to a non-fully-seated cigarette plug. (A more precise answer would be
that a bad cigarette-plug connection was my suspicion, and I've been
very careful to fully jam it in every time since, and it's never
happened again.)

-- Jeff.




________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Dean Salman
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:39 PM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop



Thanks for the tips. The mount was purchased new and was mounted
in
an observatory not use all that often. I picked it up from the
observatory and in a nut shell, it s in new condition.

I will check the mesh, last night this issue never happened and
the
pointing was perfect, I moved to about 10 objects and took an
image,
it was almost perfectly in the center every time.

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com>
, chris1011@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/8/2007 7:37:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
> cluster@... writes:
>
>
> > This is a used but only 4 years old. I will look at the worm
mesh
> > which makes more sense. Again, as long as moving the mount
with
> > TheSky does not cause issues, then I don't care.
>
> Whether being moved by TheSky or by TheKeypad, the motors are
always only
> controlled by the servo controller. The problem is not in
TheSky or
TheKeypad -
> they are simply software word generators - the problem must be

adressed in the
> actual electrical portion of the mount. Please understand that

software cannot
> move motors directly, it is the capture of the software words
by
the servo
> and then translating those words into electrical signals sent
to
the motors that
> results in the mechanical movement.
>
> here are the possibilities:
>
> 1: not enough voltage for the motors to do the job being told
by
the software
> 2: very tight worm mesh (can be caused by improper packing
when the
mount was
> sent via UPS or other carrier which can cause the motor box to
jam
into the
> worm).
> 3: faulty receiver/transmitter chip (UART chip) inside the
servo
box - this
> normally is a total failure, not intermittent and will cause
total
failure to
> communicate.
>
> If it is inside the servo box (CP2 or CP3), the mount can not
be
controlled
> from an external source such as the keypad or a computer, but
the
motors will
> still track at the sidereal rate. If the worm mesh is too
tight,
then the
> motors will not be able to keep up with the commanded motion,
will
fall behind and
> will try to catch up even after receiving a stop signal (stop
signal =
> direction key not pressed).
>
> If the mount has been purchased second hand, it is a good idea
to
go over the
> mount mechanically to make sure that all items work. It is
quite
common for a
> 3rd party to pack the mount inadequately and ship it with
little or
no
> protection on the motor gearboxes. These motor boxes can be
forced
into the worm by
> blows received during shipping. You can check this easily when
you
receive the
> mount. Remove the motor gear covers and try turning the large
spur
gear by
> hand. If it moves freely, the motors can do their job. If it
feels
tight, you
> will need to reset the worm mesh - a job so simple that even I
can
do it!!
>
> Rolando
>
>
> **************************************
> Get a sneak peek of the
> all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>
>
>
>
>


Re: Mount does not stop

Jeff Young <jey@...>
 

This is a great idea. It would have saved me the cost of a motor (and
the time to dismount/remount the drive gear and solder all the
connections). Admittedly, a more rigorous process of elimination when
debugging the original problem would have done the same, but I'm human
and will no doubt live to err again....

Speaking of spares, I have some servo-to-motor cable on back-order. Did
it ever come in?

-- Jeff.


________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Joseph Zeglinski
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:49 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop



Roland,

I wonder if a "test exchange" system could be implemented. When
really
stumped, in a pinch, it would be nice to get a known working
controller and/or
keypad, and cables, on a 7 day debug loan - a credit card buys
it, if not
returned in time. That would allow eliminating the servos, and
perhaps narrow
down the problem to one of the 3 other components - controller,
keypad, or
cables. Such a plan would eliminate time and money lost in
shipping the mount
back, which would also needlessly tie up your staff. The test
package wouldn't
even have to be the very latest hardware version, so long as it
is
known/tested to be in good working order, back at the factory.

Otherwise, one would have to try finding a nearby "good
Samaritan", from
the AP group perhaps, who owns the same mount, to try a
component swap test
with his controller/cables.

Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: <chris1011@aol.com <mailto:chris1011%40aol.com> >
To: <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop

> In a message dated 8/8/2007 4:28:47 PM Central Daylight Time,
> cluster@ccdimages.com <mailto:cluster%40ccdimages.com>
writes:
>
>
>> ok, I will check but this in happening in both axis and that
seems
>> that should not be the case
>>
>
> It may be difficult or impossible to duplicate an intermittent
problem. If
> this happens all the time, then we might be able to find it in
the servo,
> but
> intermittents sometimes are caused by conditions that we do
not experience
> here
> (faulty power supply would be one).
>
> Rolando
>
>
> **************************************
> Get a sneak peek of the all-new
> AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list
> see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Jeff Young <jey@...>
 

I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image a bird
in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the result
looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would want to
see the
real colors.
I dunno. I think Andy Warhol's stuff commands a higher price than Ansel
Adams'.

But I do agree that a narrowband image should be obviously labelled
(somehow).
That's one problem Mr. Warhol didn't have as he chose everyday objects
-- so
his viewers knew what they were "supposed" to look like.

-- Jeff.



________________________________

From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ray Gralak
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:33 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor



> I don't think they find much value in RGB or LRGB images.
>
> I find them exceedingly boring quite frankly.

You may find them boring but unlike false color images they
attempt to reflect
reality. :-)

I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image
a bird in Ha,
SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the
result looked cool?
I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would
want to see the
real colors.

-Ray


Re: NGC 6995/IC 1340 - SNR in Cygnus

Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
 

Hi Anthony,

I just got a chance to look at your image. I think it is very nicely done and
exciting, even though it is a RGB image! :-) :-)

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of ayiomamitis
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:37 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] NGC 6995/IC 1340 - SNR in Cygnus

Dear group,

I have always had a weakness for the Veil complex and last night I
sat down to acquire 4.5 hours of total exposure data (LRGB @
90:60:60:60) for the southeastern portion which comprises of NGC 6995
and IC 1340. I would have liked a little more RGB exposure data but
the OTA and pier got too close for comfort.

The result is available at
http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-DSO-NGC-6995.htm
<http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-DSO-NGC-6995.htm> ... it is one of the
relatively few situations where green does show up as part of the
visual spectrum in relation to a DSO object.

Anthony.





Re: O.T. Response Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
 

Hi Rick,

I absolutely agree that many types of images are interesting to many people.
Anything that helps public interest is good! I just feel that most "pretty
picture" images are much more art than science. Unless the object is dynamic in
some way (moving, unexpected brightness change, etc.) most amateur images of
popular bright objects (e.g. M27) aren't very useful to the scientific
community, unless perhaps it contains something new (e.g. a supernova!).

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Rick Wiggins
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:43 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ap-gto] O.T. Response Re: New images with the
140EDF refractor

Hi Ray,
I give you no argument there. Actually, IMHO, other than finding
objects or making observations prior to government sponsored
research, we amateurs (I qualify this as those that have another
job, don't get paid to do this, and have less than $250K invested)
probably don't gain much "Scientific Data". There are, of course,
exceptions. I think the greatest gain is personal satisfaction and a
general sharing of knowledge and awareness. I and my co-workers work
directly for NASA on many projects including Shuttle, Hubble, and
many other space based research vehicles. Even so, many of my
colleagues enjoy viewing my images and many times gain a greater
appreciation for the Universe beyond the Earth's surface due either
directly or indirectly to that exposure.
My 2 cents.
Thanks, Rick

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

Hi Rick,

In addition, "False Color" images created using narrow band
filters
show different detail than broadband visible light filters.
There is
both scientific and artistic value in looking at the signature
over
the entire electromagnetic spectrum.
But is there *really* scientific value to the average person in
these images?

I say there is little actual scientific use for images obtained in
the city when
the imager admits contamination from light pollution, air port
traffic, smog and
haze! :-) Hubble is up in space where it doesn't have to contend
with these
issues and is thus a precision scientific instrument (unlike our
dinky little
amateur scopes! :-) At least if the images were taken from a dark
site they
would have more value, like the work Steve Mandel has been doing.

-Ray




Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Wiggins, Rick
 

Hi Joe,
I have not added any software pings yet. There are some built in
software traps such as my DDW will automatically close my dome if it
can't talk to the software for 8 (settable) minutes. In my opinion,
these are more informatory than preventive. I believe that the
probability of software/computer failures is very high relative to
hardware failure of a microswitch or similar; therfore, I am using
hardware where possible to failsafe (protect it after there has
already been one failure) the mount, etc. I installed the
microswitch that cuts power to the mount and it works well even if
the computer has taken a "Microsoft Moment".
Thanks, Rick

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Zeglinski" <J.Zeglinski@...>
wrote:

Hi Rick,

Have you implemented "dead man safety switches" in software
yet? I wonder
if a background program could check for a ping from your home PC,
to see if
things are still under control. or to send a query to the mount,
to verify it
hasn't gone awkward. Otherwise, issue a kill command to the power
bar.
Something like that.

Joe

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Wiggins" <rickwiggins@...>
To: <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor


Hi Ray,
As you and Roland already know, I have developed a fully remote
observatory in the desert about 3-5 hours (depending on traffic)
away
from my home. With my work, home, and family responsibilities I
am
lucky to be able to go out to it once a month. Coupled with
that, my
control link must be operated with a satellite link and no phone
line
backup and I have a fairly remote operation. There is no way to
overstate the difference between running remote locally
(backyard or
short driving distance) and running remote where remote means a
day or
more to access the observatory at best.

I frequently post and ask for help on solving remote problems.
When I
review the responses, most assume that one can go out and remedy
any
major failure manually. A truly remore observatory must detect
all
potentially harmful scenerios and safe the system to avoid
catastrophie. In addition to detecting problems and safing the
system,
the system must be capable of recovering to a known state.

In the past year of initial operations I have seen these plus
more:
1. Three full power outages that lasted over 6 hours
2. Many internet failures including one double hardware failure
(ethernet switch & fiber converter)
3. Computer failure (both hardware and software). One of these
was the
the one that can cause the AP mount to hit the pier depending on
where
it was during the failure and how the software fails.


I have tried to design and implement systems that safe my system
and
allow recovery from these and many other failures. Luckily, my
system
did safe itself during the most recent power and internet
failures and
was able to fully recover remotely. I am not done with the
system (we
never are), but it does seem to be working well and I know I
would
have designed and built it differently if I had easy access.
Many of
the features that I included were direct results of early
failures.
The real trick is having the system such that it will preform the
required protection under all cases and knowing that you can
trust
that operation even if you have no communication with the site.
WoW! I spent more than my 2 cents worth!

Thanks, Rick

--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Gralak" <rgr@> wrote:

I see your point. I can do remote imaging here also for
testing purposes.
Yes you can do that but it's a different ball of wax when the
setup
is truly
remote.

-Ray



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