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Re: multispectral imaging was RE: Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor
Rick Thurmond
I might be interested in whether the bird was approaching me or leaving
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me. Or perhaps rotating. How difficult would it be to find some narrowband filters tuned a little above or below laboratory emission line values so you could do doppler imaging? Could that be done with an amateur scope?
If I were to want to image a bird for scientific purposes I'd probably be
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Re: PEMPro questions
Joe Mize
Thkx Ray, my apologies I saw the Buy section with PemPro 2.0 but no Upgrades. The Software Upgrades section was just below the
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bottom of the displayed page. I almost missed it again this morning like I had when I looked previously. Thkx again...joe :) "May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars" Joe Mize StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/ Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W
------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[mailto:rgr@gralak.com] Sent : 8/9/2007 11:19:52 PM To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Cc : Subject : RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions Joe, Users with a V1.x license can upgrade for $75. Go to the link below and scroll down to "Software upgrades": http://www.ccdware.com/buy/ -Ray -----Original Message----- To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto Yahoo! Groups Links
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Sim 3-188 - SNR in Cygnus
ayiomamitis
Dear group,
Fortunate to have a really good string of great weather and good seeing, I sat down last night to pursue Pickering's Triangle (aka Sim 3-188) within the Veil Complex. I pursued an LRGB approach (108:60:60:60) and it is obvious that the plethora of stars is becoming a distraction. I must revisit using an h-alpha approach. For a glimpse of last night's effort, I kindly direct you to http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-DSO-Nebulae-Sim-3-188.htm . It was also my first use of the AP 0.75x TVPH reducer and I would like to sit down at some point for some plate solving so as to get the precise reduction the unit offers. Anthony.
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Re: Mount does not stop
Roland Christen
In a message dated 8/10/2007 2:54:41 AM Central Daylight Time, jey@adobe.com
writes: Um... that would be your office.I'm not in the office myself. The office staff won't let me interfere (otherwise there would be chaos for sure!) Good idea. Howard is very knowledgeable on technical aspects and Alice is always on top of orders and delivery info. Me - I know nothing, nothing .... Rolando ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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Re: NGC 6995/IC 1340 - SNR in Cygnus
ayiomamitis
Hi Ray,
I am with you surrounding the earlier discussion of RGB vs narrowband. However, I do understand and respect the need for the latter when someone is burdened with light-pollution. As a result, RGB is my modus operandi for now given my decent skies. Anthony. --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote: done and exciting, even though it is a RGB image! :-) :-)
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Re: Mount does not stop
Jeff Young <jey@...>
Roland --
Um... that would be your office. But I'll give Alice or Howard a jingle. Thanks, -- Jeff. ________________________________ From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris1011@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:43 PM To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop In a message dated 8/9/2007 1:16:03 PM Central Daylight Time, jey@adobe.com <mailto:jey%40adobe.com> writes: > Speaking of spares, I have some servo-to-motor cable on back-order. Did > it ever come in? I donno. You might want to ask the office with whom you originally ordered the part. Rolando ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>
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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor
Peter Santangeli
Different strokes for different folks.
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I personally find narrow band images pretty unattractive. But I have no ambitions to do science, which is difficult, but clearly possible for amateurs - just ask the many comet discoverers that are still successful in this day of automated surveys. I would not cast public dispersions on those who take narrow band - it's a hobby. To each his own. A good observational astronomer friend of mine once asked me what the point was in taking (RGB) pictures of something that had been taken a million times before. The conversation sort of went like this: Friend: Yet another picture of M31?! Me: Yeah. It'll be better this year. Friend: But hasn't it been photographed a million times? Me: Yeah. By the way, did you say you had been to the Grand Canyon? Friend: Yes, years ago. Me: Did you take pictures? Friend: Of course!.... oh... Whatever floats your boat. pete
--- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Young" <jey@...> wrote:
I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image a birdin Ha,SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the resultlooked cool?I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would want tosee thereal colors.I dunno. I think Andy Warhol's stuff commands a higher price than Ansel
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Re: Mount does not stop
Joe Zeglinski
So ... an intermittent problem - could it be a bad cable connection, in that
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case? Give them a shake, and see if the problem returns. Perhaps the Y-cable connector was just pushed on, rather than fully tightened down. Otherwise, it will get you, just when you need the mount to work. Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Salman" <cluster@ccdimages.com> To: <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 12:39 PM Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop Thanks for the tips. The mount was purchased new and was mounted in
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Re: Mount does not stop
Joe Zeglinski
Yes, Roland, I agree. We should do as much as we possibly can to examine
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symptoms, and try to fathom what is going on. However, my suggestion was a last ditch approach, before giving up and shipping everything back - which is a hassle for all concerned, and an expense. However some owners are not as analytical as others, so they may want to give up and just ask you to just make the problem go away. Your time is valuable to all of us. Sending "test parts", would be better in that case. Meanwhile, it might even be useful to purchase a spare power and Y-cable, just to have it in hand when the cable gets nicked, or the connectors go funny. At least we would save the long turn around time if the problem turns out to be one of the cables - they are probably cheaper than mount shipping charges. Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: <chris1011@aol.com> To: <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop In a message dated 8/8/2007 9:47:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
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Re: PEMPro questions
Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
Joe,
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Users with a V1.x license can upgrade for $75. Go to the link below and scroll down to "Software upgrades": http://www.ccdware.com/buy/ -Ray
-----Original Message-----
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Re: PEMPro questions
Joe Mize
Ray did I understand what you're saying? There's currently no "Upgrade" rout for owners who paid the full commercial price
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without buying another complete new $149 program? Ouch! I liked PemProAP so much I bought the commercial version. I'd surely like to upgrade my Version 1.70 - Feb 26, 2007 (Build 147), to Version 2.0 even if I have to pay an "Upgrade" price, I cannot justify buying another complete program. I couldn't find anything on the CCDware web page about Upgrades. Is an Upgrade offer even being discussed?...joe :) "May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars" Joe Mize StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/ Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W
------- Original Message -------
From : Ray Gralak[mailto:rgr@gralak.com] Sent : 8/9/2007 11:51:45 AM To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Cc : Subject : RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions Thanks Howard, that is correct! -Ray -----Original Message----- To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: PEMPro questions
Joe Mize
Ahhhh! I was hoping to get ahold of the Polar Alignment tool and the other one Ray mentioned. I wonder when these will become
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available to us who purchased the full version PemPro? Thkx...joe :) "May You Go Among The Imperishable Stars" Joe Mize StarFields Observatory http://www.cav-sfo.com/ Chiefland, FL 29:24'33.4"N 82:51'37.7"W
------- Original Message -------
From : howard4ap[mailto:howard@astro-physics.com] Sent : 8/9/2007 11:09:45 AM To : ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Cc : Subject : RE: [ap-gto] Re: PEMPro questions Hey Joe, The latest build of the full version without going to v.2.0 is build 147. Build 149 pertains only to the A-P Special Edition. Howard --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "jmize@..." <jmize@...> wrote: have the latest release, ver. 1.70 Build 147, 02-26-2007. You said below the latest release is Build 149. Is there someplace special where to check for the latest release? Thkx...joe :)updates feature in the Help menu to get the latest version if you do not have it.Mounts with the2) What does PEMPro v2 do that the special edition doesn't?The special edition is designed to work specifically with AP GTO GTOCP3 controller. You will not be able to use it with other mountsincluding older AP mounts with GTOCP2 and GTOCP1 controllers. Also you cannotuse PEMPro's refine curve feature.Backlash exerciser (PulseGuide already has a tool for this), a Star Finderutility, and native support for webcams (so you can use PEMPro without having tobuy an expensive 3rd-party CCD program).version of version, butv2 or would I need a "special" upgrade also?For V.1x there was an upgrade path from the AP version to the full I do not think AP and CCDWare (the publisher) have talked about anupgrade path to V2. Of course you can download a 60-day trial of the fullversion from the CCDWare site ( http://www.ccdware.com ). Additional questions aboutthe full version should be posted to the PEMPro forum: To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: multispectral imaging was RE: Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor
Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
Richard,
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I think you can and should image whatever way you like. I think the point is that it is probably a good idea that people clearly mark false-colored narrowband images as being, well, false-colored, and that no attempt was made to portray the objects as they actually appear. I don't think we want the average web-browsing individual to think the colors in color-mapped images reflect reality. (Of course we don't have to do that for monochrome images if they are B/W). Now I hope we can all agree to get back on-topic! -Ray
-----Original Message-----unday_vga.jpg > <http://www.narrowbandimaging.com/images/crisp_crab_5_ways_to_ sunday_vga.jpg>
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multispectral imaging was RE: Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor
Richard Crisp
If I were to want to image a bird for scientific purposes I'd probably be interested in a thermal profile, an optical profile and possibly a UV reflectivity profile if it were imaged in the outdoors in the sun. It might be interesting to examine the bird in polarized light too. You never know until you try.
In short in knowing a thing or two about the target, I would choose the appropriate wavelengths to do a multi or hyperspectral analysis of the bird. By analogy when one uses nebular diagnostic filters, as narrowband emission line filters are occasionally called by scientists, for imaging nebulae, you actually deconstruct the nebula and can observe features that may otherwise be obscured by broadband radiation. an example of alternate ways to image the same object can be found in this image, all shot from my backyard in mag 3 light polluted skies with my 18" defective telescope mounted on an AP1200GTO mount and guided with an ST7E on a lumicon giant easy guider with reducer. http://www.narrowbandimaging.com/images/crisp_crab_5_ways_to_sunday_vga.jpg each method was specifically chosen to reveal different aspects of this most interesting laboratory in the sky. I just like having a toolkit to let me do something a bit off the well travelled road for the sheer adventure of the journey. Jeff Young <jey@adobe.com> wrote: > I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image a bird in Ha, SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the resultlooked cool? I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would want tosee the real colors.I dunno. I think Andy Warhol's stuff commands a higher price than Ansel Adams'. But I do agree that a narrowband image should be obviously labelled (somehow). That's one problem Mr. Warhol didn't have as he chose everyday objects -- so his viewers knew what they were "supposed" to look like. -- Jeff. ________________________________ From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Gralak Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:33 AM To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor I don't think they find much value in RGB or LRGB images.You may find them boring but unlike false color images they attempt to reflect reality. :-) I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image a bird in Ha, SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the result looked cool? I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would want to see the real colors. -Ray
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Re: Mount does not stop
Jeff Young <jey@...>
Dean --
The problem sounds fairly intermittent. Do you unplug the cigarette-plug end of the power cord each evening? The run-ons happened to me a couple of times a few years ago, and I believe I tracked it down to a non-fully-seated cigarette plug. (A more precise answer would be that a bad cigarette-plug connection was my suspicion, and I've been very careful to fully jam it in every time since, and it's never happened again.) -- Jeff. ________________________________ From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dean Salman Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:39 PM To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop Thanks for the tips. The mount was purchased new and was mounted in an observatory not use all that often. I picked it up from the observatory and in a nut shell, it s in new condition. I will check the mesh, last night this issue never happened and the pointing was perfect, I moved to about 10 objects and took an image, it was almost perfectly in the center every time. --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> , chris1011@... wrote: > > In a message dated 8/8/2007 7:37:31 PM Central Daylight Time, > cluster@... writes: > > > > This is a used but only 4 years old. I will look at the worm mesh > > which makes more sense. Again, as long as moving the mount with > > TheSky does not cause issues, then I don't care. > > Whether being moved by TheSky or by TheKeypad, the motors are always only > controlled by the servo controller. The problem is not in TheSky or TheKeypad - > they are simply software word generators - the problem must be adressed in the > actual electrical portion of the mount. Please understand that software cannot > move motors directly, it is the capture of the software words by the servo > and then translating those words into electrical signals sent to the motors that > results in the mechanical movement. > > here are the possibilities: > > 1: not enough voltage for the motors to do the job being told by the software > 2: very tight worm mesh (can be caused by improper packing when the mount was > sent via UPS or other carrier which can cause the motor box to jam into the > worm). > 3: faulty receiver/transmitter chip (UART chip) inside the servo box - this > normally is a total failure, not intermittent and will cause total failure to > communicate. > > If it is inside the servo box (CP2 or CP3), the mount can not be controlled > from an external source such as the keypad or a computer, but the motors will > still track at the sidereal rate. If the worm mesh is too tight, then the > motors will not be able to keep up with the commanded motion, will fall behind and > will try to catch up even after receiving a stop signal (stop signal = > direction key not pressed). > > If the mount has been purchased second hand, it is a good idea to go over the > mount mechanically to make sure that all items work. It is quite common for a > 3rd party to pack the mount inadequately and ship it with little or no > protection on the motor gearboxes. These motor boxes can be forced into the worm by > blows received during shipping. You can check this easily when you receive the > mount. Remove the motor gear covers and try turning the large spur gear by > hand. If it moves freely, the motors can do their job. If it feels tight, you > will need to reset the worm mesh - a job so simple that even I can do it!! > > Rolando > > > ************************************** > Get a sneak peek of the > all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour> > > > >
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Re: Mount does not stop
Jeff Young <jey@...>
This is a great idea. It would have saved me the cost of a motor (and
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the time to dismount/remount the drive gear and solder all the connections). Admittedly, a more rigorous process of elimination when debugging the original problem would have done the same, but I'm human and will no doubt live to err again.... Speaking of spares, I have some servo-to-motor cable on back-order. Did it ever come in? -- Jeff. ________________________________ From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Zeglinski Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:49 AM To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop Roland, I wonder if a "test exchange" system could be implemented. When really stumped, in a pinch, it would be nice to get a known working controller and/or keypad, and cables, on a 7 day debug loan - a credit card buys it, if not returned in time. That would allow eliminating the servos, and perhaps narrow down the problem to one of the 3 other components - controller, keypad, or cables. Such a plan would eliminate time and money lost in shipping the mount back, which would also needlessly tie up your staff. The test package wouldn't even have to be the very latest hardware version, so long as it is known/tested to be in good working order, back at the factory. Otherwise, one would have to try finding a nearby "good Samaritan", from the AP group perhaps, who owns the same mount, to try a component swap test with his controller/cables. Joe
----- Original Message -----
From: <chris1011@aol.com <mailto:chris1011%40aol.com> > To: <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <mailto:ap-gto%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:38 PM Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Mount does not stop > In a message dated 8/8/2007 4:28:47 PM Central Daylight Time, > cluster@ccdimages.com <mailto:cluster%40ccdimages.com> writes: > > >> ok, I will check but this in happening in both axis and that seems >> that should not be the case >> > > It may be difficult or impossible to duplicate an intermittent problem. If > this happens all the time, then we might be able to find it in the servo, > but > intermittents sometimes are caused by conditions that we do not experience > here > (faulty power supply would be one). > > Rolando > > > ************************************** > Get a sneak peek of the all-new > AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour> > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, or for general information on the ap-gto list > see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ap-gto> > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor
Jeff Young <jey@...>
I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image a birdin Ha, SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the resultlooked cool? I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would want tosee the real colors.I dunno. I think Andy Warhol's stuff commands a higher price than Ansel Adams'. But I do agree that a narrowband image should be obviously labelled (somehow). That's one problem Mr. Warhol didn't have as he chose everyday objects -- so his viewers knew what they were "supposed" to look like. -- Jeff. ________________________________ From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ray Gralak Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:33 AM To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor > I don't think they find much value in RGB or LRGB images. > > I find them exceedingly boring quite frankly. You may find them boring but unlike false color images they attempt to reflect reality. :-) I wonder what kind of reaction you would get if you could image a bird in Ha, SII, and OIII and manipulated the mapped colors so that the result looked cool? I think maybe it would look artistic but I think people would want to see the real colors. -Ray
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Re: NGC 6995/IC 1340 - SNR in Cygnus
Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
Hi Anthony,
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I just got a chance to look at your image. I think it is very nicely done and exciting, even though it is a RGB image! :-) :-) -Ray
-----Original Message-----
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Re: O.T. Response Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor
Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
Hi Rick,
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I absolutely agree that many types of images are interesting to many people. Anything that helps public interest is good! I just feel that most "pretty picture" images are much more art than science. Unless the object is dynamic in some way (moving, unexpected brightness change, etc.) most amateur images of popular bright objects (e.g. M27) aren't very useful to the scientific community, unless perhaps it contains something new (e.g. a supernova!). -Ray
-----Original Message-----
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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor
Wiggins, Rick
Hi Joe,
I have not added any software pings yet. There are some built in software traps such as my DDW will automatically close my dome if it can't talk to the software for 8 (settable) minutes. In my opinion, these are more informatory than preventive. I believe that the probability of software/computer failures is very high relative to hardware failure of a microswitch or similar; therfore, I am using hardware where possible to failsafe (protect it after there has already been one failure) the mount, etc. I installed the microswitch that cuts power to the mount and it works well even if the computer has taken a "Microsoft Moment". Thanks, Rick --- In ap-gto@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph Zeglinski" <J.Zeglinski@...> wrote: yet? I wonder if a background program could check for a ping from your home PC,to see if things are still under control. or to send a query to the mount,to verify it hasn't gone awkward. Otherwise, issue a kill command to the powerbar. Something like that.away amfrom my home. With my work, home, and family responsibilities I that, mylucky to be able to go out to it once a month. Coupled with linecontrol link must be operated with a satellite link and no phone (backyard orbackup and I have a fairly remote operation. There is no way to day orshort driving distance) and running remote where remote means a When Imore to access the observatory at best. anyreview the responses, most assume that one can go out and remedy allmajor failure manually. A truly remore observatory must detect system,potentially harmful scenerios and safe the system to avoid more:the system must be capable of recovering to a known state. was the1. Three full power outages that lasted over 6 hours wherethe one that can cause the AP mount to hit the pier depending on andit was during the failure and how the software fails. systemallow recovery from these and many other failures. Luckily, my failures anddid safe itself during the most recent power and internet system (wewas able to fully recover remotely. I am not done with the wouldnever are), but it does seem to be working well and I know I Many ofhave designed and built it differently if I had easy access. failures.the features that I included were direct results of early trustThe real trick is having the system such that it will preform the setupthat operation even if you have no communication with the site. is trulyremote.
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