Date   

Re: Mount does not stop

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 3:55:14 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@... writes:


The problem occurs at 600 and I have 12.5 volts because the box I
have is a custom built box (by a professional EE that works at Keck
now) and reports exactly the output sent to what is attached. So
this is sounding like what I have heard from others and need to send
in the control box.
It probably is not the control box. It could be caused by too much load on
the worm which can cause the motors to slow down. Please check your worm mesh to
make sure that the worm is not overloaded.

Roland Christen


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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Richard Crisp
 

particularly when you send a command and nothing happens because all your gear was sold the day before at a flea market just outside of Las Cruces for $200 and a case of beer.





Ray Gralak <rgr@...> wrote:
> I see your point. I can do remote imaging here also for
testing purposes.
Yes you can do that but it's a different ball of wax when the setup is truly
remote.

-Ray


Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
 

I see your point. I can do remote imaging here also for
testing purposes.
Yes you can do that but it's a different ball of wax when the setup is truly
remote.

-Ray


Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Auchter Tom-W11806
 

The seeing in the Illinois area is not great due to the jet stream
typically being overhead :-( Typical FWHM would range from 3.0" to
3.5". A good night would be 2.5".

Tom


I have a sneaky suspicion that you also have very good seeing. Have
you sat down to estimate some kind of FWHM for your location on a
typical evening?

Anthony.


Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
 

Hi Roland,

I absolutely understand why someone would want to (or have to) do this type of
imaging but I still prefer "true" (err... closer to true? :-) color images.
Images produced by this emission line color mapping technique do not in any way
reflect true color or even present the object's true star field. But artistic
license has a long arm so I think it is ok provided the artist clearly states
that the image is false color. This will at least prevent some viewers from
thinking this object actually exists as presented.

However, bringing this back to APGTO mounts let me say that my interest is
mostly in remote imaging. Having had a telescope stationed at New Mexico Skies
for almost a year now I think I understand a lot of issues with remote imaging.
I think you should consider a dark-site remote setup some day, if not just to
see the issues that more and more remote users have to deal with. Hopefully that
would result in some AP mount improvements for remote imaging setups.

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
On Behalf Of chris1011@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:27 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New images with the 140EDF refractor

Hi Ray,

In the past I have limited myself to taking only RGB images.
Now that large
box stores are within shouting distance of our factory and
observatory, I can
no longer get anything reasonable with broad band filters
(except past midnight
on a Sunday). The only option is narrow band. It seems that
consumer's desire
for ever more cheap goods has had the side effect of robbing
us of the night
sky. When I first came to this area 30+ years ago, it was
dark enough here to
see the Milky Way glittering above. My neighbors and I were
out one night to
witness an incredible Perseid meteor shower not too far from
here. Today one
would not be able to see this display of natural beauty due
to contamination by
very unnatural pollution.

Rolando

In a message dated 8/8/2007 8:38:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
rgr@... <mailto:rgr%40gralak.com>
writes:

Hi Roland,

I'm not a big fan of False-color (e.g. narrowband) images
because almost by
definition no attempt is made to match colors to reality.
Sometimes to get
interesting colors the SII and OIII lines need to be
exaggerated so that the
HAlpha data does not totally overwhelm them. I find this
process somewhat
arbitrary and so I think such images should be marked with
a note clearly
indicating that only a tiny fraction of the full visible
spectrum was used
to
create the false-color image. No attempt is made to present
the object as it
looks in nature and the false colors were chosen
arbitrarily for artistic
effect. One could almost as easily take a monochrome image
and make an
appealing
false-color mapping (in fact I think I did this one time to
make a point!
:-)

One other note about stars in narrowband images in general.
It's interesting
that one narrowband proponent made a point here to mention
he doesn't cut
and
paste in stars from another image. However, his collection
of false color
images
are missing millions of stars that would otherwise be there
had his imaging
time
been devoted to broadband filters. <G>

That said, you managed to capture great detail and even
managed to keep most
of
the stars from being too funky colored! Focus is very tight
on that new
instrument. I'm sure many people struggling to get good
focus with larger
scopes
envy those tight stars.

Lastly it's nice to see that once again the STL11000M has
proven itself
capable
of taking narrowband images that rival those taken with
much larger scopes
and
those cameras with supposedly much higher QE's and deeper wells!

-Ray
**************************************
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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Richard Crisp
 

it isn't that you will not get good results with a shallow well camera with low dynamic range and poor qe, but you will get better results faster with one that doesn't have those disadvantages; especially so if you are in a less than optimal sky.

the thing that originally excited me about tricolor emission line images were the beautiful hubble nebular images. I liked them when I first saw them many years ago and they still provide inspiration for me.

Stars are OK, but that's not what captures my imagination.



ayiomamitis <ayiomami@...> wrote:
--- In ap-gto@..., "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

Hi Roland,

I'm not a big fan of False-color (e.g. narrowband) images because
almost by

<snip>


Lastly it's nice to see that once again the STL11000M has proven
itself capable
of taking narrowband images that rival those taken with much larger
scopes and
those cameras with supposedly much higher QE's and deeper wells!
I like this comment in particular!

I often ask myself how much I am depriving myself with my (older)
ST-2000XM and then I see such work and results using 140mm of aperture
and a camera (STL-11000XM) which has a similar QE to my ST-2000XM. In
fact, the M17 has 80 minutes total time.

Very encouraging results!

Anthony.


-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
On Behalf Of chris1011@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 4:26 PM
To: ap-ug@...
Cc: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] New images with the 140EDF refractor

Hi folks,

I have posted some new images I took recently with the first
of the 140
refractors on Robert Provin's website, NGC6888 and M17:
http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/
<http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/>

Be sure to check out the closeups of each image. They are
narrow band images
since my observatory has been severely affected by light
pollution from
several new giant strip malls just down the road.

Rolando

**************************************
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Re: Polar Alignment

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:21:56 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@... writes:


Is there somewhere that tells how to use this feature since it did
not work.
For some star combinations this alignment will not work, so don't use it. In
fact, I am thinking of eliminating this procedure since it gives people
trouble to use it.

Rolando


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Re: Mount does not stop

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 2:14:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
cluster@... writes:


When I use the keypad, sometimes the mount will continue to slew so I
have to press stop.
Your voltage supply is too low for the slew speed that you have chosen. That
means that the motors are not getting enough voltage to achieve the chosen
slew speed. Therefore the motors will fall behind the commanded position and are
trying to make up for the position shortfall at the end after you have let go
of the buttons.

Do one of two things: either get a 15 volt supply that can deliver the
current necessary for the 1200x slew speed or turn your max slew speed down to a
lower value (600x for heavy loads).

Rolando


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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

ayiomamitis
 

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/8/2007 3:55:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
eraeburn@... writes:


So which mount was it that facilitated your capturing these beautiful
images?

-ER
The 140EDF is mounted on the Mach1 and Eagle pier.
My Mach1GTO cleared customs and will be in my hands this Friday. Yes!!!!

Anthony.


Rolando


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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

ayiomamitis
 

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/7/2007 8:33:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
rdcrisp@... writes:


were the filters you used the baader planetarium narrowbands?
Rolando,

Yes. Part of this experiment was to see how well they work here
under my
conditions of light pollution. The 7nm bandwidth certainly cuts out
99.9% of the
bad light and allows fairly deep reach into the sky.
I have a sneaky suspicion that you also have very good seeing. Have
you sat down to estimate some kind of FWHM for your location on a
typical evening?

Anthony.


Rolando


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Re: Mount does not stop

Kent Kirkley
 

In a message dated 8/8/07 2:13:12 PM, cluster@... writes:


When I use the keypad, sometimes the mount will continue to slew so I
have to press stop.  I thought it was the key pad but PulseGuide did
the same thing without the keypad.   Someone told me it was in the
controler box.   So far I have not seen this using the Sky or CCD
Commander.  Anyway thoughts ?

Dean
Dean:
You say 'the mount will continue to slew'.
Are you saying the mount is running away at high speed?
If this is the case, I'm betting you have a power supply problem.
I've seen this happen when I've been running on batteries and the voltage
drops to a low level.

Kent Kirkley


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

ayiomamitis
 

--- In ap-gto@..., "Ray Gralak" <rgr@...> wrote:

Hi Roland,

I'm not a big fan of False-color (e.g. narrowband) images because
almost by

<snip>


Lastly it's nice to see that once again the STL11000M has proven
itself capable
of taking narrowband images that rival those taken with much larger
scopes and
those cameras with supposedly much higher QE's and deeper wells!
I like this comment in particular!

I often ask myself how much I am depriving myself with my (older)
ST-2000XM and then I see such work and results using 140mm of aperture
and a camera (STL-11000XM) which has a similar QE to my ST-2000XM. In
fact, the M17 has 80 minutes total time.

Very encouraging results!

Anthony.


-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
On Behalf Of chris1011@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 4:26 PM
To: ap-ug@...
Cc: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] New images with the 140EDF refractor

Hi folks,

I have posted some new images I took recently with the first
of the 140
refractors on Robert Provin's website, NGC6888 and M17:
http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/
<http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/>

Be sure to check out the closeups of each image. They are
narrow band images
since my observatory has been severely affected by light
pollution from
several new giant strip malls just down the road.

Rolando

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new
AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>







Re: Polar Alignment

Kent Kirkley
 

In a message dated 8/8/07 2:21:24 PM, cluster@... writes:


I am just about an expert on drift alignment and usually can get the
job done in about 15 minutes.  But I tried using the polar alignment
in the keypad.  This is what I did:

I moved to a star that forces a move in RA and DEC when going back to
Polaris.  Then I turned off the mount and started it again

(BTW, I prefer the auto connect off - is there a way to get to the
polar alignment feature)

I went into the polar alignment and picked the star I was one and
started the process.  It slewed to Polaris and I moved the mount to
put it in the center of the image.  When I went back to the star, I
used the key pad to center it.  Then repeated the process a number of
times making mount adjustments when at Polaris.  When I went back and
forth, the stars (polaris and the other star - which I changed) were
centered.  I assumed I was aligned, that was not the case, in fact I
was so far off I could not even calibrate the CCD. 

Is there somewhere that tells how to use this feature since it did
not work.  
Dean:
Don't know, but........
For years, doing fim imaging with exposures of 30 minutes to 1 hour, I first
used the Polar Alignment Scope (boresighted) and then a drift alignment. When
I moved to CCD imaging, for awhile I did the same thing and then I tried an
experiment. I only used the Polar Alignment Scope as the longest subexposures I
was doing were 30 minute Ha's. No problem, worked perfectly with no sign of
trailing or field rotation. So now I only use the Polar Alignment Scope.

By 'boresighted' I mean that I have 'calibrated' the polar alignment scope
reticle to the mount.
One does this by placing a distant terrestial object (church steeple, tower,
top of electric pole, etc.)
in the center of the reticle and rotating the RA axis around and around. The
target object should stay centered. If it wobbles the reticle needs to be
adjusted. It is adjusted by carefully moving the reticle using the three very
small screws at the base of the polar scope eyepiece. Loosen one and tighten
another and retest until the target object stays centered. One word of
caution......don't be sure to loosen one before tightening another and don't tighten too
much or the reticle can crack.

This procedure is best carried out with nothing on the mount......no OTA's,
no counterweights or counterweight shaft. You will also have to lower the
altitude adjuster so you can point the polar axis at the terrestial target. I made
a simple plywood wedge to tip the mount over so the polar axis is more
horizontal for the procedure.

Once the Polar Alignment Scope is 'calibrated' to the polar alignment axis
bore you should'nt have to repeat the process for a long time or unless you use
it on a different mount.

Kent Kirkley



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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

ayiomamitis
 

Rolando,

Both are exceptional. I like your M17 and the 80 minutes total
exposure! Awesome.

I also like your idea of mixing the H-a and O-III to derive the green. ;-)

Anthony.

--- In ap-gto@..., chris1011@... wrote:

Hi folks,

I have posted some new images I took recently with the first of the 140
refractors on Robert Provin's website, NGC6888 and M17:
http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/

Be sure to check out the closeups of each image. They are narrow
band images
since my observatory has been severely affected by light pollution from
several new giant strip malls just down the road.

Rolando


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new
AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Richard Crisp
 

and that is exactly why I :

1) have actively promoted narrowband since early 2003 as a viable method of imaging nebulae from the 'burbs
2) note that an optimization for the camera is to go with a deep well sensor with high dynamic range: again to image from the bright skies of the 'burbs

while it is true that remote observatories are gaining in popularity with a small group of fellows willing and able to finance such an operation, the mass market remains backyard imaging from their homes and for most they live in or near cities under far less than optimal imaging conditions.

I could pack it up and head out for a week at a time two or three times a year to a dark sky site, but I can image any clear night from my backyard irrespective of moon phase using narrowband and the equipment optimizations I am suggesting. Based on what I have seen approximately 95% or more imagers are not using remote dark sky sites for their imaging.

----- Original Message -----
From: chris1011@...
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New images with the 140EDF refractor


Hi Ray,

In the past I have limited myself to taking only RGB images. Now that large
box stores are within shouting distance of our factory and observatory, I can
no longer get anything reasonable with broad band filters (except past midnight
on a Sunday). The only option is narrow band. It seems that consumer's desire
for ever more cheap goods has had the side effect of robbing us of the night
sky. When I first came to this area 30+ years ago, it was dark enough here to
see the Milky Way glittering above. My neighbors and I were out one night to
witness an incredible Perseid meteor shower not too far from here. Today one
would not be able to see this display of natural beauty due to contamination by
very unnatural pollution.

Rolando

In a message dated 8/8/2007 8:38:45 AM Central Daylight Time, rgr@...
writes:

> Hi Roland,
>
> I'm not a big fan of False-color (e.g. narrowband) images because almost by
> definition no attempt is made to match colors to reality. Sometimes to get
> interesting colors the SII and OIII lines need to be exaggerated so that the
> HAlpha data does not totally overwhelm them. I find this process somewhat
> arbitrary and so I think such images should be marked with a note clearly
> indicating that only a tiny fraction of the full visible spectrum was used
> to
> create the false-color image. No attempt is made to present the object as it
> looks in nature and the false colors were chosen arbitrarily for artistic
> effect. One could almost as easily take a monochrome image and make an
> appealing
> false-color mapping (in fact I think I did this one time to make a point!
> :-)
>
> One other note about stars in narrowband images in general. It's interesting
> that one narrowband proponent made a point here to mention he doesn't cut
> and
> paste in stars from another image. However, his collection of false color
> images
> are missing millions of stars that would otherwise be there had his imaging
> time
> been devoted to broadband filters. <G>
>
> That said, you managed to capture great detail and even managed to keep most
> of
> the stars from being too funky colored! Focus is very tight on that new
> instrument. I'm sure many people struggling to get good focus with larger
> scopes
> envy those tight stars.
>
> Lastly it's nice to see that once again the STL11000M has proven itself
> capable
> of taking narrowband images that rival those taken with much larger scopes
> and
> those cameras with supposedly much higher QE's and deeper wells!
>
> -Ray
>

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL
> at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Ray Gralak <rgr@...>
 

Hi Roland,

I'm not a big fan of False-color (e.g. narrowband) images because almost by
definition no attempt is made to match colors to reality. Sometimes to get
interesting colors the SII and OIII lines need to be exaggerated so that the
HAlpha data does not totally overwhelm them. I find this process somewhat
arbitrary and so I think such images should be marked with a note clearly
indicating that only a tiny fraction of the full visible spectrum was used to
create the false-color image. No attempt is made to present the object as it
looks in nature and the false colors were chosen arbitrarily for artistic
effect. One could almost as easily take a monochrome image and make an appealing
false-color mapping (in fact I think I did this one time to make a point! :-)

One other note about stars in narrowband images in general. It's interesting
that one narrowband proponent made a point here to mention he doesn't cut and
paste in stars from another image. However, his collection of false color images
are missing millions of stars that would otherwise be there had his imaging time
been devoted to broadband filters. <G>

That said, you managed to capture great detail and even managed to keep most of
the stars from being too funky colored! Focus is very tight on that new
instrument. I'm sure many people struggling to get good focus with larger scopes
envy those tight stars.

Lastly it's nice to see that once again the STL11000M has proven itself capable
of taking narrowband images that rival those taken with much larger scopes and
those cameras with supposedly much higher QE's and deeper wells!

-Ray

-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
On Behalf Of chris1011@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 4:26 PM
To: ap-ug@...
Cc: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] New images with the 140EDF refractor

Hi folks,

I have posted some new images I took recently with the first
of the 140
refractors on Robert Provin's website, NGC6888 and M17:
http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/
<http://geogdata.csun.edu/~voltaire/roland/>

Be sure to check out the closeups of each image. They are
narrow band images
since my observatory has been severely affected by light
pollution from
several new giant strip malls just down the road.

Rolando

**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new
AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
<http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour>







Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 11:16:17 AM Central Daylight Time, rgr@...
writes:


I think you should consider a dark-site remote setup some day, if not just
to
see the issues that more and more remote users have to deal with. Hopefully
that
would result in some AP mount improvements for remote imaging setups.
I see your point. I can do remote imaging here also for testing purposes.

Rolando


**************************************
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AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour


Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Roland Christen
 

Hi Ray,

In the past I have limited myself to taking only RGB images. Now that large
box stores are within shouting distance of our factory and observatory, I can
no longer get anything reasonable with broad band filters (except past midnight
on a Sunday). The only option is narrow band. It seems that consumer's desire
for ever more cheap goods has had the side effect of robbing us of the night
sky. When I first came to this area 30+ years ago, it was dark enough here to
see the Milky Way glittering above. My neighbors and I were out one night to
witness an incredible Perseid meteor shower not too far from here. Today one
would not be able to see this display of natural beauty due to contamination by
very unnatural pollution.

Rolando


In a message dated 8/8/2007 8:38:45 AM Central Daylight Time, rgr@...
writes:

Hi Roland,

I'm not a big fan of False-color (e.g. narrowband) images because almost by
definition no attempt is made to match colors to reality. Sometimes to get
interesting colors the SII and OIII lines need to be exaggerated so that the
HAlpha data does not totally overwhelm them. I find this process somewhat
arbitrary and so I think such images should be marked with a note clearly
indicating that only a tiny fraction of the full visible spectrum was used
to
create the false-color image. No attempt is made to present the object as it
looks in nature and the false colors were chosen arbitrarily for artistic
effect. One could almost as easily take a monochrome image and make an
appealing
false-color mapping (in fact I think I did this one time to make a point!
:-)

One other note about stars in narrowband images in general. It's interesting
that one narrowband proponent made a point here to mention he doesn't cut
and
paste in stars from another image. However, his collection of false color
images
are missing millions of stars that would otherwise be there had his imaging
time
been devoted to broadband filters. <G>

That said, you managed to capture great detail and even managed to keep most
of
the stars from being too funky colored! Focus is very tight on that new
instrument. I'm sure many people struggling to get good focus with larger
scopes
envy those tight stars.

Lastly it's nice to see that once again the STL11000M has proven itself
capable
of taking narrowband images that rival those taken with much larger scopes
and
those cameras with supposedly much higher QE's and deeper wells!

-Ray

**************************************
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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/8/2007 3:55:45 AM Central Daylight Time,
eraeburn@... writes:


So which mount was it that facilitated your capturing these beautiful
images?

-ER
The 140EDF is mounted on the Mach1 and Eagle pier.

Rolando


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Re: New images with the 140EDF refractor

Roland Christen
 

In a message dated 8/7/2007 8:33:01 PM Central Daylight Time,
rdcrisp@... writes:


were the filters you used the baader planetarium narrowbands?
Yes. Part of this experiment was to see how well they work here under my
conditions of light pollution. The 7nm bandwidth certainly cuts out 99.9% of the
bad light and allows fairly deep reach into the sky.

Rolando


**************************************
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