Date   

Re: AP 600E Polar Alignment Question

RCK <rkuberek@...>
 

visonneau-vincent wrote:

Hello

Also, check your orthogonality.
What can i do to verify orthogonality.I have a C8 and a ap900 gto and
i have some problems with the precisions of pointing of the mount.
Regarding orthogonality, there's a bit in the GTE manual on it--p. 21 in mine.

Bob Kuberek


Re: Can't adjust speed when aligning

Paul Gustafson <drgus@...>
 

As to changing the button speed, remember there is a somewhat
hidden menu,
when ever you can press the buttons say at alignment mode, you
can press the
'+-' button to bring up a special hidden menu that allows you to
adjust the
button speeds from the slowest to the highest by pressing the next and
previous buttons then press the 'menu' button and you will return to exact
position you left off but the hand controller buttons will now slew the
scope much slower or faster if you like.
To Charles and everyone else who responded, I am grateful for your help.
I'll try it next night out.

I know, I know--RTFM. :-)

Paul Gustafson


Re: Tricking the 1200 GTO on the time

Bobby Middleton <bobm@...>
 

Great! That will be a very useful feature especially for
long exposure astrophotography.


Bobby Middleton

http://www.koyote.com/users/bobm/astro1.htm

-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Sinsofsky
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Tricking the 1200 GTO on the time

A speical feature is coming for 2.6 that will permit you to use the a/p GTO
mount to think the zenith is not at the center or top of the mount, but
rather offset by a user selectable amount, say 4 hours, that way the mount
will not autoswitch sides when requested and thus you can effectivly stay
on
one side for much longer.

All will be explained with the release of 2.6 ..I am finnishing it up now.

- charles

----- Original Message -----
From: Bobby Middleton <bobm@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 5:58 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Tricking the 1200 GTO on the time


This post is a cross-post with the AP users-group. Both it
and this group are having light traffic now so I've posted on
both hoping to get a faster response.

I've been told that there is a way to re-set something, probably
the time, so that one can avoid twirl around to the other side
of the AP GTO mounts. I realize the reason for this is to avoid hitting
the
OTA
into the pier or tripod, but my goal is to be set up shooting for the
western side
of the mount when starting a long exposure. Right now I am shooting 3
hour exposures of the cocoon nebula (ic 5146) and for the first exposure
early in the night the mount will slew to the eastern side. (OTA on the
west
side looking east)
Near the end of the exposure it gets the tube very close
to my pier. If I can start this exposure some way
on the western side (OTA on the east side looking west)
then my problem will be fixed. I once had the fix for this in my
files but a computer crash fixed that!
Thanks for any info,



Bobby Middleton

http://www.koyote.com/users/bobm/astro1.htm




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Re: AP 600E Polar Alignment Question

Charles Sinsofsky <strfire@...>
 

The polar alignment routine using 4 stars ie: using the n-polar aligment
mode with at least 2.4 firmware will not require you to move the scope by
hand anytime, other then the inital pointing, but will permit you to get
VERY accurate polar alignment. I have done 35 mins unguided prime photos
with my 1200 using my polar aligmnent routiens with 4 stars and medium to
high power eyepiece., I use deneb, vega, arturaus, and sometimes a variety
of stars for the fourth one. remember the key here is repetition, ie: go
back and forth between the selected star and then the next and the next, and
then start al over again, I do the whole sequenece oin this form. first star
choosen 4 times back and forth from polaris autoslewing and thne second star
4 times etc... and then I do this same to all the way to the 4th star or 3rd
star and then I start all over again with ther orignal 1st star. I do this
proces 3 times, by the third iteration the stars always fall dead center all
the time. perfect polar alignment.

- charles

----- Original Message -----
From: Derek Wong <dawong@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 8:12 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: AP 600E Polar Alignment Question


Hi Jim:

Method 1 suggests a star greater than +/- 4 hrs RA from the
pole Why in the first method of polar alignment does the manual state
that Arcturus is not a good star for aligning since it is too close to
Polaris in RA? Polaris has an RA around 2 H, Arcturus is around 15 H,
what am I missing?
Perhaps Charles could comment, but I think what the manual should state
is that the best alignment stars should be 4-8 hr. RA from the pole,
preferably at declinations below 0. Arcturus is nearly opposite Polaris
(close to 12 hrs. away) and would take several iterations to work
properly.

Previously, Charles indicated that a new two star alignement would be
available which sounds very promising.

Would anyone volunteer any method to get a closer polar alignment
besides Method 1? Every time I try to align and try to refine via an
additional iteration as stated in the manual, it doesn't get much
better. Can anyone help?
Get the polar alignement scope--it's the easiest way.

Also, check your orthogonality.

Derek

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Re: Tricking the 1200 GTO on the time

Charles Sinsofsky <strfire@...>
 

A speical feature is coming for 2.6 that will permit you to use the a/p GTO
mount to think the zenith is not at the center or top of the mount, but
rather offset by a user selectable amount, say 4 hours, that way the mount
will not autoswitch sides when requested and thus you can effectivly stay on
one side for much longer.

All will be explained with the release of 2.6 ..I am finnishing it up now.

- charles

----- Original Message -----
From: Bobby Middleton <bobm@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 5:58 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Tricking the 1200 GTO on the time


This post is a cross-post with the AP users-group. Both it
and this group are having light traffic now so I've posted on
both hoping to get a faster response.

I've been told that there is a way to re-set something, probably
the time, so that one can avoid twirl around to the other side
of the AP GTO mounts. I realize the reason for this is to avoid hitting
the
OTA
into the pier or tripod, but my goal is to be set up shooting for the
western side
of the mount when starting a long exposure. Right now I am shooting 3
hour exposures of the cocoon nebula (ic 5146) and for the first exposure
early in the night the mount will slew to the eastern side. (OTA on the
west
side looking east)
Near the end of the exposure it gets the tube very close
to my pier. If I can start this exposure some way
on the western side (OTA on the east side looking west)
then my problem will be fixed. I once had the fix for this in my
files but a computer crash fixed that!
Thanks for any info,



Bobby Middleton

http://www.koyote.com/users/bobm/astro1.htm




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Re: Can't adjust speed when aligning

Charles Sinsofsky <strfire@...>
 

Hello Everyone,

Sorry I did not respond to these questions right away, I have been VERY
busy with DSV 3.0, the upcoming downloadable Hand controller code. a new
chip will be required for your mounts but you will all be able to use thew
web site now to download the hand controller code as I bring it out. 2.6 is
well on the way to being completed.

As to changing the button speed, remember there is a somewhat hidden menu,
when ever you can press the buttons say at alignment mode, you can press the
'+-' button to bring up a speical hidden menu that allows you to adjust the
button speads from the slowest to the highest by presssing the next and
previous buttons then press the 'menu' button and you will return to exact
position you left off but the hand controller buttons will now slew the
scope much slower or faster if you like.

- charles sinsofsky

----- Original Message -----
From: RCK <rkuberek@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 8:18 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Can't adjust speed when aligning


Paul Gustafson wrote:

When polar aligning, a constant frustration for me is my inability to
adjust
the N/E/W/S button speed when centering the alignment star. No matter
what
speed I pick at the initial screen, as soon as I enter the alignment
routine, the button speed increases and makes getting the alignment star
I've wondered about this myself, but haven't figured it out. The only
thing I
know
is that the older firmware didn't do this, which is the main reason I
haven't
upgraded yet.

Bob Kuberek


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Re: AP 600E Polar Alignment Question

visonneau-vincent <visonneau-vin@...>
 

Hello

Also, check your orthogonality.
What can i do to verify orthogonality.I have a C8 and a ap900 gto and
i have some problems with the precisions of pointing of the mount.
When i press Rcal to recalibrate on a star (for exemple deneb) then i
can slew to another star (for exemple polaris).Polaris is away of the
center of the ocular.If i press Rcal 3,4 or 5 times (with different
star) on the same night then i slew to polaris,i can't see polaris
with the ocular:the precision is decreasing!!!
What's wrong,orthogonality or else?
Is the horizontality important with the polar alignement scope?
Bye
Vincent FRANCE


Re: AP 600E Polar Alignment Question

Derek Wong <dawong@...>
 

I have the polar alignment scope but I have not installed it yet. I
understand that it first needs to be aligned coaxial with the RA axis
then it can be usedproperly. Any tips on getting it coaxial?
There should be some instructions, and I poseted my thoughts on message
#2 of this e-group.

I have a
lot of trees in my back yard and can't sight a far away HV insulator.
Could it be aligned at night?
I think it would be very difficult. Perhaps you can set up during the
day in front of your house just to align the scope--then you could sight
something far away.

Also seems confusing on the polar reticle. What stars correspond to the
reticle marks? It's not clear from the documentation.
If you look at a map, it is confusing. Alpha, Delta, and Beta
correspond to Polaris, Delta Ursae Minoris, and Beta Ursae Minoris
(sorry, I forgot their common names). When you look through the scope,
turn the axes so that Polaris and Delta are in their respective
circles. The dashed line will point toward Beta, which is out of the
field.

If you look at a map, the angles don't match--the reason is that the
polar scope is a refractor and the image is reversed. Since you are
looking at the Alpha-Delta line directly through the scope and the
Alpha-Beta line naked eye, this illusion is created.

Anyway, good luck--my illuminator just went out, so no polar alignment
for me!

Derek


Re: AP 600E Polar Alignment Question

jfakatse@...
 

Get the polar alignement scope--it's the easiest way.

Also, check your orthogonality.

Derek
Hi Derek,
I have the polar alignment scope but I have not installed it yet. I
understand that it first needs to be aligned coaxial with the RA axis
then it can be usedproperly. Any tips on getting it coaxial? I have a
lot of trees in my back yard and can't sight a far away HV insulator.
Could it be aligned at night?
Also seems confusing on the polar reticle. What stars correspond to the
reticle marks? It's not clear from the documentation.
Thanks for your assistance.
Regards,
Jim


Re: AP 600E Polar Alignment Question

Derek Wong <dawong@...>
 

Hi Jim:

Method 1 suggests a star greater than +/- 4 hrs RA from the
pole Why in the first method of polar alignment does the manual state
that Arcturus is not a good star for aligning since it is too close to
Polaris in RA? Polaris has an RA around 2 H, Arcturus is around 15 H,
what am I missing?
Perhaps Charles could comment, but I think what the manual should state
is that the best alignment stars should be 4-8 hr. RA from the pole,
preferably at declinations below 0. Arcturus is nearly opposite Polaris
(close to 12 hrs. away) and would take several iterations to work
properly.

Previously, Charles indicated that a new two star alignement would be
available which sounds very promising.

Would anyone volunteer any method to get a closer polar alignment
besides Method 1? Every time I try to align and try to refine via an
additional iteration as stated in the manual, it doesn't get much
better. Can anyone help?
Get the polar alignement scope--it's the easiest way.

Also, check your orthogonality.

Derek


Re: Can't adjust speed when aligning

Philip Perkins <philip@...>
 

When polar aligning, a constant frustration for me is my inability to adjust
the N/E/W/S button speed when centering the alignment star. No matter what
speed I pick at the initial screen, as soon as I enter the alignment
routine, the button speed increases and makes getting the alignment star
centered very difficult. I'm tired of shooting back and forth and back and
forth until I finally get the star close to being centered.
Paul, I think this is a known bug. I have a very similar thing with
version 2.4. Except that I steer well clear of the iterative routines,
which are hopeless unless you have excellent orthogonality of the optics
with the mount. I notice the same thing when I do a Recal (button 9) - the
star veers off in an RA direction and the guide speed changes. That, I am
afraid, is a bug. Charles said that it was being fixed in 2.5

Regards
--Philip

Philip Perkins - philip@...
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
Astrocruise - http://www.astrocruise.com


Re: Tricking the 1200 GTO on the time

Philip Perkins <philip@...>
 

to my pier. If I can start this exposure some way
on the western side (OTA on the east side looking west)
then my problem will be fixed. I once had the fix for this in my
files but a computer crash fixed that!
Thanks for any info,
Hello Bobby
You can set the time plus or minus from the correct local time, which has
the effect of moving the meridian where you want in the sky. I use 2 hours
offset quite regularly, sometimes up to 3. It works very well - just be
careful not to hit the pier, but you know that one already.
--Philip

Philip Perkins - philip@...
Wiltshire UK & Luberon France
Astrocruise - http://www.astrocruise.com


Re: AP 600E Polar Alignment Question

RCK <rkuberek@...>
 

Jim Fakatselis wrote:

Thought I'd pose a question to the group.
My AP 600EGTO hand controller has version 2.2 and my manual is dated
11/2/98. Method 1 suggests a star greater than +/- 4 hrs RA from the
Jim,

You didn't say whether you were having trouble with tracking or with pointing.
If it's pointing, you may also want to look at the orthogonality of your setup.

I use method 1 (N-Polar calibrate) exclusively, and ususally end up with only
2-3 sec. of drift in either axis over a 10 minute period. This is ok for me since
I am using either the T&A or self-guided modes of the ST7. Here is a track list
from my 10 min. T&A run on NGC 6946 last week. Pixel scale is 1 sec. per
pixel. The first column is DEC and the second column is RA. I had used Deneb
for alignment, and iterated about 5 times.

Version = 1
Snapshots = 20
Snapshot_time = 30.00
Temperature = -4.82
Height = 510
Width = 765
Offset = 0
0,0
0,-1
0,-1
-1,-2
-1,-1
-1,-1
-1,-1
-1,-1
-1,-3
-2,-3
-2,-4
-2,-4
-3,-3
-3,-3
-3,-3
-3,-4
-3,-5
-3,-5
-4,-6
-3,-6
End

I don't know the answer to the Arcturus puzzle, except that Arcturus doesn't
work well for me either, so I avoid it. Perhaps it is because Arcturus is almost
exactly 12 hours in RA from Polaris.

As for iterating, this works great for me and the more iterations I do the better
the alignment gets. Charles S. has suggested iterating on one star until it's good
then picking a second star on the other side and re-running the N-Polar alignment
procedure using the second star.

Bob Kuberek


AP 600E Polar Alignment Question

Jim Fakatselis <jfakatse@...>
 

Thought I'd pose a question to the group.
My AP 600EGTO hand controller has version 2.2 and my manual is dated
11/2/98. Method 1 suggests a star greater than +/- 4 hrs RA from the
pole Why in the first method of polar alignment does the manual state
that Arcturus is not a good star for aligning since it is too close to
Polaris in RA? Polaris has an RA around 2 H, Arcturus is around 15 H,
what am I missing?
Also, are the upgrades to the servo box and hand controller going to be
available soon? I can't wait.
Would anyone volunteer any method to get a closer polar alignment
besides Method 1? Every time I try to align and try to refine via an
additional iteration as stated in the manual, it doesn't get much
better. Can anyone help?
I have read Roland's modified method but I need to get past Method 1 and
get close before I refine.

Thanks in advance,
Jim Fakatselis


Tricking the 1200 GTO on the time

Bobby Middleton <bobm@...>
 

This post is a cross-post with the AP users-group. Both it
and this group are having light traffic now so I've posted on
both hoping to get a faster response.

I've been told that there is a way to re-set something, probably
the time, so that one can avoid twirl around to the other side
of the AP GTO mounts. I realize the reason for this is to avoid hitting the
OTA
into the pier or tripod, but my goal is to be set up shooting for the
western side
of the mount when starting a long exposure. Right now I am shooting 3
hour exposures of the cocoon nebula (ic 5146) and for the first exposure
early in the night the mount will slew to the eastern side. (OTA on the west
side looking east)
Near the end of the exposure it gets the tube very close
to my pier. If I can start this exposure some way
on the western side (OTA on the east side looking west)
then my problem will be fixed. I once had the fix for this in my
files but a computer crash fixed that!
Thanks for any info,



Bobby Middleton

http://www.koyote.com/users/bobm/astro1.htm


Re: Can't adjust speed when aligning

RCK <rkuberek@...>
 

RCK wrote:

HOWARD L LAZARUS wrote:

Hi Bob;

Just wondered about the firmware. i am still on the original firmware and
have no problem in adjusting the slew speed , that is , it never reverts
back to 64X uinless i wish it so.
My question to you what is different about the new firmware and to my
knowledge i have never gotten notice from AP inviting me to make the change
over???
Howard,

Further to this, the letter I received from AP dated May 27 mentions the keypad
upgrade prominently. It also lists the revisions by date and function. The 11-2-98 version
2.2 upgrade added a feature to change the button rate at five additional places.
According to this, you can push the +- key to bring up a screen to change the
button rate while in the Pick Star and Cal Star screens. Maybe this will help.

Bob Kuberek


Re: Can't adjust speed when aligning

RCK <rkuberek@...>
 

HOWARD L LAZARUS wrote:
Hi Bob;

Just wondered about the firmware. i am still on the original firmware and
have no problem in adjusting the slew speed , that is , it never reverts
back to 64X uinless i wish it so.
My question to you what is different about the new firmware and to my
knowledge i have never gotten notice from AP inviting me to make the change
over???


Howard,

You might want to call Christine and ask. I'm not sure if I got an "official"
notice, but I'm pretty sure that Mark Wilson did. I also saw a post a while
back from Charles Sinsofsky (who, I believe, designed the firmware) that there
would be a new, new release and to wait a little longer for it. One important
difference in the new firmware, I think, is that you no longer need to slew
*manually* back to the initial calibration star when recalibrating in N-Polar
Align model.

Here is the text of Charles' post on 7/31:

Hello All,
   This most likly applies to all goto people, so the latest hand controller
code is 2.5, but i am finnishing 2.6 which will be a very bug [sic] upgrade new
features etc.

 ok first, how long to upgrade a hand controller, i suggest everyone wait
just little longer the new chip code is finnished and i am now in trhe
prcoess of setting up the internet based upgrading of the hand contorller
the chips will most likly be available from a/p in late september and soon
after the web based update system will be in place and it will be very easy
to use, I will design it that way.

 So I hope this answers some questions concerning the hand controller.

Maybe Charles would give us a status report?

Bob Kuberek


Re: Can't adjust speed when aligning

HOWARD L LAZARUS <LAZHOW@...>
 

Hi Bob;

Just wondered about the firmware. i am still on the original firmware and
have no problem in adjusting the slew speed , that is , it never reverts
back to 64X uinless i wish it so.
My question to you what is different about the new firmware and to my
knowledge i have never gotten notice from AP inviting me to make the change
over???
Can you fill me in.
Thanks
Howard lazarus

----- Original Message -----
From: RCK <rkuberek@...>
To: <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 8:18 PM
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: Can't adjust speed when aligning


Paul Gustafson wrote:

When polar aligning, a constant frustration for me is my inability to
adjust
the N/E/W/S button speed when centering the alignment star. No matter
what
speed I pick at the initial screen, as soon as I enter the alignment
routine, the button speed increases and makes getting the alignment star
I've wondered about this myself, but haven't figured it out. The only
thing I
know
is that the older firmware didn't do this, which is the main reason I
haven't
upgraded yet.

Bob Kuberek


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Re: Can't adjust speed when aligning

RCK <rkuberek@...>
 

Paul Gustafson wrote:

When polar aligning, a constant frustration for me is my inability to adjust
the N/E/W/S button speed when centering the alignment star. No matter what
speed I pick at the initial screen, as soon as I enter the alignment
routine, the button speed increases and makes getting the alignment star
I've wondered about this myself, but haven't figured it out. The only thing I
know
is that the older firmware didn't do this, which is the main reason I haven't
upgraded yet.

Bob Kuberek


Can't adjust speed when aligning

Paul Gustafson <drgus@...>
 

When polar aligning, a constant frustration for me is my inability to adjust
the N/E/W/S button speed when centering the alignment star. No matter what
speed I pick at the initial screen, as soon as I enter the alignment
routine, the button speed increases and makes getting the alignment star
centered very difficult. I'm tired of shooting back and forth and back and
forth until I finally get the star close to being centered.

Am I being obtuse? It's probably something simple I'm missing, but I can't
find it. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, did anyone else see the shadow transit this morning, right in the
middle of the GRS?

Regards,
Paul Gustafson

"For my part I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of the stars
makes me dream..." -- Van Gogh