Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues


Steven
 

Bill, you can get in touch with Craig Young (on this forum) for details.

S


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Long <bill@...>
Sent: Friday, 29 May 2020 9:41 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
Where does one find this software?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Steven Steven <steven447@...>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:30 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
I know at first glance this might seem complex but it is actually very quick and easy to do and it works very well. I am not an expert, but with less effort than a few minutes using ATrack it gives me excellent images with little to no fuss, something I've been struggling with for years with good autoguiding programs, and it works every time, very robust. This is not an autoguiding program, it requires a very slightly modified mind-set, that's all. I can speak from experience that it is simple and it works well and I now have no need at all to go back to autoguiding. Set-up is minor and the software doesn't use the PC registry, thus quick set-up and use. Read thru the book, takes five minutes to see how to set it up. Calibration takes less time and effort than any autoguiding software.

S


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Friday, 29 May 2020 8:28 PM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
>        ATrack can use each subsequent science image to monitor how things are going and re-center as
> necessary thereby avoiding accumulative errors. This can work in parallel with an AP model. The methodology
> uses a plate solve of each image and gets information from each previous image. It is very effective.
>
>
>        Here's a 10 minute (not autoguided) image I made with ATrack a couple of days ago - 3% AR, using
> 1100GTO, no AE, TEC140 on the QHY9 cam. There are many more, and they're easy to obtain using this
> software.

Technically, it is closed loop tracking (auto-guiding) since it using feedback from images to adjust tracking.

Also, it looks like there is some setup required to create a script or configure the training images for each target. Which software
package are you using to do that?

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 4:30 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
>        The 20 second images are "training" images used by ATrack to determine the drift - just like the
> calibration images in PHD and Maxim, etc. You can use 5 second images, or as many or as long as you want.
> And you can space them out however you like. For example, you can make 10 x 5 second images with a 1
> minute gap between each. Or you can make 2 x 20 second images with a 5 minute gap between each. Ideally
> though, the best is a sequence of 10 x 20 second consecutive images. The reason is because 20 seconds
> tends to smooth out seeing conditions. 10 images provides enough data to derive a good average of the drift.
> The more points the better. So it is up to the user to define what is best for the ATrack training sequence. And
> after that you begin your 5 or 10 minute science images, or whatever lengths you like.
>
>
>        Typically, the drift rate of a telescope does not change terribly much in 10 minutes. Since ATrack sets
> the motors properly, it'll be fine. Obviously, if the seeing changes or something in the system 'jumps' the scope
> (think "PE", or a physical bump), then it won't work properly, in that case, just re-train. You can insert a training
> sequence prior to each 10 minute image if you want to ensure that it has the best rates set in the mount before
> starting.
>
>
>        ATrack can use each subsequent science image to monitor how things are going and re-center as
> necessary thereby avoiding accumulative errors. This can work in parallel with an AP model. The methodology
> uses a plate solve of each image and gets information from each previous image. It is very effective.
>
>
>        Here's a 10 minute (not autoguided) image I made with ATrack a couple of days ago - 3% AR, using
> 1100GTO, no AE, TEC140 on the QHY9 cam. There are many more, and they're easy to obtain using this
> software.
>
>        S
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> Sent: Friday, 29 May 2020 9:31 AM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> > It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> > ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> > normal exposure you decide.
>
> Okay, that's what I understood from what Craig has said previously.
>
> But I think most imagers want longer exposures than 20 seconds. How would this work if a user wants to do 10
> minute exposures?
> Without an initial correction there might be enough star trailing in a 10-minute image that plate solves would fail
> and no images
> would ever get collected.
>
> I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the
> same declination at
> different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it samples. APCC
> interpolates rates between
> individual declination arcs to produce a really accurate tracking rate model throughout the sky and falls back to
> the regular
> all-sky tracking rate model if the user goes out of the area of the sky where there were no declination arcs to
> rely on. I showed
> this feature to a number of people at AIC last November.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro <https://www.astro-
> physics.com/apcc-pro>
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> <https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:17 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> > ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> > normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information
> > gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits
> > that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by
> > the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every
> nth
> > image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate
> > for our purposes).
> >
> >
> > S
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates
> a
> > > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > > supposed to do, easily.
> >
> > So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> <https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro>  <https://www.astro-
> > physics.com/apcc-pro>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> <https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> > <https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates
> a
> > > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > > supposed to do, easily.
> > > S
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> > >
> > > Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?
> > >
> > > I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like
> some
> > of
> > > the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
> > > creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
> > > 1.74"/pixel with round stars.
> > >
> > > -Ray Gralak
> > > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro
> <https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro>
> > <https://www.astro-physics.com/apcc-pro>  <https://www.astro-
> > > physics.com/apcc-pro>
> > > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://www.ccdware.com
> > > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> <https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> > <https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> > > <https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver>
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > > > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
> > > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > > >
> > > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
> > > > ________________________________
> > > >
> > > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
> > > > <mkea13800@...>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
> > > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > > >
> > > > Thanks, Steven.
> > > >
> > > > Here's a link to the manual.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf
> <https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf>
> > <https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf>
> > > <https://forum.starkeeper.it/uploads/short-url/ikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Don Rudny
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >        On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >                ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I
> have
> > > > switched to it for unguided imaging.  So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
> > > software
> > > > to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory.  The use of PinPoint is
> > requierd,
> > > > and that's easy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > >
> > > >        From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
> > > > <theresamarie11@...>
> > > >        Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
> > > >        To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > >        Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >        Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?
> > > >
> > > >        This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users.      Given how easy and
> fast
> > > > this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things
> like
> > > > plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >        Terri
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>




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