Re: Mach2 Unguided testing continues


Roland Christen
 

All objects will move across the sky in an arc from east to west along a constant Declination value. It's not a feature of a mount, rather it's a feature of the way objects move across the sky. The motion along this arc is not constant, rather is varies by tiny amounts both in RA and Dec due to a number of items. if you can measure accurately enough where the object will be at any time during it's motion across the sky, you can adjust the driving speed of the RA and Dec axes to precisely match that of the object. And thus you can take time exposures along the path without having the object blurred due to drift error.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long <bill@...>
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2020 2:44 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues

Does this DEC Arc feature just happen naturally in the process of generating a model?


From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 6:31 AM
To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
 
> It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> normal exposure you decide.

Okay, that's what I understood from what Craig has said previously.

But I think most imagers want longer exposures than 20 seconds. How would this work if a user wants to do 10 minute exposures?
Without an initial correction there might be enough star trailing in a 10-minute image that plate solves would fail and no images
would ever get collected.

I'm interested because APCC has a built-in declination-arc modeling feature. That is, it plate solves along the same declination at
different hour angles and produces a best-fit tracking rate model for each declination it samples. APCC interpolates rates between
individual declination arcs to produce a really accurate tracking rate model throughout the sky and falls back to the regular
all-sky tracking rate model if the user goes out of the area of the sky where there were no declination arcs to rely on. I showed
this feature to a number of people at AIC last November.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 10:17 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> It isn't set on the first image, it sets on the second one, so a short ~20 sec image is made first, then another
> ~20 sec image is made, and the initial tracking corrections are then applied on the third science image at the
> normal exposure you decide. Each subsequent exposure is calculated according to the tracking information
> gained from the previous image, and each one adjusts the motor speed as required to keep within the limits
> that you configure. Once the initial tracking rate is set, subsequent corrections are fine adjustments made by
> the software. In order not to chase the seeing conditions, you can configure AT to make adjustments every nth
> image, as described in the User Guide (which is in abbreviated form at the moment, but more than adequate
> for our purposes).
>
>
> S
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:04 PM
> To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
>
> > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > supposed to do, easily.
>
> So, in a first time setup how is the tracking rate set for the very first image?
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0 <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=u15XsF1OXW8DUEyRxhaTPinhJwBL%2BcMhXWOgI2pNYKo%3D&amp;reserved=0
> physics.com/apcc-pro>
> Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=X8qCOIa5FTpq5lCZvKnM0wYSKLB0aPCBrnJAfmyx16c%3D&amp;reserved=0
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>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:27 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > Yes, it works at multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky. The methodology incorporates a
> > plate solve of each image and subsequent correction using data from the previous image. It does what it's
> > supposed to do, easily.
> > S
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Ray Gralak <groups3@...>
> > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:15 PM
> > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> >
> > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> >
> > Does that work if you are going to do multiple new targets in one night in different parts of the sky?
> >
> > I think that type of application may be useful for certain types of telescopes that are hard to model, like some
> of
> > the larger inexpensive truss tube scopes. If one is using a solid refractor the all-sky model that APCC Pro
> > creates will give excellent results throughout the sky. I've posted images up to 30 minutes unguided at
> > 1.74"/pixel with round stars.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932922764&amp;sdata=xFdEjMaunMGV7KF4SPxZnKwZU9D23KQMyS5R3RXJmNY%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-physics.com%2Fapcc-pro&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=0XdQIUuhMxEJCLHhxskdPfjkhc4RRCj%2BjhutK0hFztY%3D&amp;reserved=0>  <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.astro-%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=fOf0%2FXS2UbxmIBxrzXQhsR%2BgzQVIrErsPcAuM7Y4kpg%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > physics.com/apcc-pro>
> > Author of PEMPro V3:  https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ccdware.com%2F&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=CSQprmMipIEnVHBp9qm%2FAbEuiQnq8LEvdecisFXYmYs%3D&amp;reserved=0
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.siriusimaging.com%2Fapdriver&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=dnuaRUanVcv7RPQLBdB4viISOfGvCH0VaCRIEH0HLD8%3D&amp;reserved=0
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> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io [mailto:main@ap-gto.groups.io] On Behalf Of Steven Steven
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 2:15 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Thanks Don, it's easy to use and I've been getting aspect ratios of around 2% to 6% regularly. This is
> > > unprecedented with me. I set it up and go to sleep. Enjoy!
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > PS: The plate solve is very useful and helpful in getting accuracy - to the pixel.
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Donald Rudny
> > > <mkea13800@...>
> > > Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 5:02 PM
> > > To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > > Thanks, Steven.
> > >
> > > Here's a link to the manual.
> > >
> > >
> > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0
> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starkeeper.it%2Fuploads%2Fshort-url%2Fikk1ph2GnqeBVLWNdbsui6rHZjH.pdf&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7Cc2c90a6ff62a4bb3240308d803d49a39%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637263558932932758&amp;sdata=RyXILEdPhlxBWVFSiQNDzH19qA%2Fr8jzrG4n4lki89ag%3D&amp;reserved=0>
> > >
> > >
> > > Don Rudny
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        On May 28, 2020, at 10:42 AM, Steven Steven <steven447@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >                ATrack (Adaptive Tracking) has been around for a year doing the same thing and recently I have
> > > switched to it for unguided imaging.  So if anyone wants to use ATrack while waiting for AP to add the
> > software
> > > to APCC then they should contact Craig Young at Crystal Lake Observatory.  The use of PinPoint is
> requierd,
> > > and that's easy.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > >        From: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io> on behalf of Terri Zittritsch
> > > <theresamarie11@...>
> > >        Sent: Thursday, 28 May 2020 9:26 AM
> > >        To: main@ap-gto.groups.io <main@ap-gto.groups.io>
> > >        Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Mach2 Unguided testing continues
> > >
> > >
> > >        Roland, this looks exciting, any ETA for release?
> > >
> > >        This seems like a great feature for us mobile (non fixed installation) users.      Given how easy and fast
> > > this is, 5 minutes/hour of object tracking, will this be usable if you also have a PC connected (for things like
> > > plate solving) and do you use it with, or instead of, APCC?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >        Terri
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>




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