Re: New file uploaded to ap-gto


Roland Christen
 

That sounds very promising. Right now we are having Monsoon season, rain until Friday, so no chance to do any imaging.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Long bill@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto@...
Sent: Tue, May 7, 2019 11:57 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto



Someone here suggested trying Lowpass2, and I am running that now. So far DEC looks pretty solid with very, very little if any corrections. 


From: ap-gto@... on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 9:54 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
 
 
Hi Cytan,

> Just looking at the source code, the ResistSwitch() algorithm looks like simple proportional control with gain =
> aggression value. If that's the case, then it is nearly impossible to screw it up. This means that it has to be
> downstream of ResistSwitch() which unfortunately, means that the GTOCP4 firmware when absolute encoders are
> enabled cannot be ruled out as the culprit.

I doubt that very much.

There are many other ways PHD2 could have a bug, for instance incorrectly calculating the calibration values it is using, incorrectly calculating or rounding up move durations, etc.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 5:56 AM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
>
>
>
> HI Ray,
> Just looking at the source code, the ResistSwitch() algorithm looks like simple proportional control with gain =
> aggression value. If that's the case, then it is nearly impossible to screw it up. This means that it has to be
> downstream of ResistSwitch() which unfortunately, means that the GTOCP4 firmware when absolute encoders are
> enabled cannot be ruled out as the culprit.
>
> I hope that Andy Glasso who is one of the maintainers of PHD2 is able to shed light on this matter.
>
> cytan
>
> On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 7:46:57 AM CDT, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > gto@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi Cytan,
>
> > Let's try something that is not way off left field about PHD2: there may be a bug.
>
> I'm pretty sure there are bugs in both MaximDL and PHD2. Almost every non-trivial program has bugs.
>
> But, even if there is a bug and if PHD2 guided better than MaximDL, my point was that I think PHD2 has stepped
> away from its roots. The goal of the initial version was to be simple to operate... and the original version was. I think
> PHD2 has become more complicated than it needs to be, maybe because it's open source and many of the people
> making the changes each had their own ideas on how autoguiding *should* work.
>
> The developers behind MaximDL have been doing this for 25+ years. They have gathered experience using
> numerous mount types and operating under a wide range of field conditions. Because the product is commercial
> they had resources to buy test equipment like cameras and mounts and hire people to test/develop.
>
> But, as I said previously, I am sure many (most?) are willing to save $500 for software even if it compromises ease
> of use and performance.
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2019 4:14 AM
> > To: 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto]
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
> >
> >
> >
> > Let's try something that is not way off left field about PHD2: there may be a bug.
> >
> > I looked at the source code:
> >
> > https://github.com/OpenPHDGuiding/phd2/blob/master/guide_algorithm_resistswitch.cpp
> >
> >
> > The member function that does the dirty work is
> >
> >
> > double GuideAlgorithmResistSwitch::result(double input)
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately, I don't see anything obviously wrong with the ResistSwitch algorithm right now. It looks like the
> > ResistSwitch algorithm just takes the input (which I assume is the error) and multiplies it by the aggression setting
> > and returns it back to the caller.
> >
> > cytan
> >
> >
> > On Monday, May 6, 2019, 10:48:12 PM CDT, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto] > > gto@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > What's interesting about this discussion is that "PHD" is supposed to be simple to use, but I think the PHD2
> > developers lost track
> > of that by adding too many features and knobs.
> >
> > Now, MaximDL is the easy tool to use. And, apparently MaximDL works better.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 8:34 PM
> > > To: ap-gto@...; andy.galasso@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Adding Andy Glasso to the thread here. There has got to be a way to set PHD2 to work similarly to your
> > experience
> > > with MaximDL.
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: ap-gto@... on behalf of chris1011@... [ap-gto] > > > gto@...>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 7:00 PM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Max move doesn't come into play for small corrections on the order of 1 arc sec.
> > >
> > >
> > > Rolando
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bill Long bill@... [ap-gto]
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Sent: Mon, May 6, 2019 8:41 pm
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey Roland,
> > >
> > > Did you try lowering the MxDEC value in PHD? That will allow you to change the maximum size of a correction,
> > > without changing the aggression. I use 2000 and have used 1500 in the past with good success. The default is
> > 2500
> > > and at 28% aggressiveness as you mentioned, it would only apply up to a 700 move. Maybe put the aggression
> > > back to 100% and set MxDEC to 1500?
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > >
> > > From: ap-gto@... on behalf of chris1011@... [ap-gto] > > > gto@...>
> > > Sent: Monday, May 6, 2019 6:27 PM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Cytan,
> > >
> > >
> > > There is no way that the encoders have anything to do with causing Dec aggressiveness to behave this way.
> The
> > > encoders work perfectly with MaximDL at the proper settings of 100% aggressiveness.
> > >
> > >
> > > And yes, you are getting the same instability as I was getting.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Rolando
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: cytan299@... [ap-gto]
> > > To: ap-gto
> > > Sent: Mon, May 6, 2019 7:59 pm
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] New file uploaded to ap-gto
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Rolando,
> > > I'm still experimenting with my AP1100AE with PHD2 settings and saw this on Saturday night. I'm glad that you
> > > may be seeing what I saw and I can confirm what you saw. Please see:
> > >
> > > https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-
> > > gto/files/AP1100AE%20and%20PHD2%20DEC%20settings%20%28weird%20behavior%29/
> > >
> >
> > > > ap-
> > >
> >
> gto%2Ffiles%2FAP1100AE%2520and%2520PHD2%2520DEC%2520settings%2520%2528weird%2520behavior%
> > >
> >
> 2529%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cf4ceac89efaf44e58d0d08d6d2901818%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaa
> > >
> >
> a%7C1%7C0%7C636927913648814470&sdata=wxgXrSHNJhXmMmp2cw3E77gpgZE34mu8DF%2BVoqf5%2BH
> > > Y%3D&reserved=0>
> > >
> > >
> > > When I had DEC aggression set to 100%, the DEC behaviour is clearly very odd. Then I turned it off to see
> > whether
> > > the seeing was that bad. Clearly not! I then set DEC aggression to 50% and it looked a lot better.
> > >
> > > Perhaps its the absolute encoders and PHD2 DEC guiding not playing well together?
> > >
> > > cytan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>



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