You’re welcome Elliot. Glad you enjoyed some of the tongue-in-cheeky
commentary.
The post came out of a lot of frustration over the past
three years of using the new CP4 , but in any narrative, one can always add
sugar to the vinegar.
I have always had a very high regard for Chris, and continue to value his
opinion, but some conjectures can be misguided. Then again, wouldn’t surprise me
if there is regular contractual or personal exchange with AP on engineering
matters, for a second opinion.
I will continue to trust that there wasn’t “acidic
corrosion” – being produced from infiltrated “humid” outdoor air, and certainly
dew water, entering the case. Nor should there be very much dried acid,
remaining from the board manufacturing process and latent acidic manufacturing
chemicals not having been washed away properly upon completion of board
assembly. Otherwise, my washing down of the milky residue with “PCB cleaner” –
on the second drowned CP4 circuit board, (with Marj’s permission and guidance) –
would have exposed obviously corroded fiberglass strands on the board’s
substrate, leading to further damaged components. My belief is that it was
mostly the result of major short circuiting from the visibly obvious
“rust” from the RJ-45, dissolved in the water, even though
“distilled dew water” could have done almost as much.
To quote the great American - Ben Franklin:
“For the want of a nail the shoe was lost, For the want of a shoe
the horse was lost, For the want of a horse the rider was lost, For
the want of a rider the battle was lost, For the want of a battle the
kingdom was lost, And all for the want of a horseshoe-nail.” ― Benjamin Franklin
Likewise with CP4 “Waterproofing” or lack thereof, and
AP’s production – for want of a toothpick-sized dab of RTV or similar rubber
calk around the leak prone Ethernet RJ-45 connector ... a CP4, or two, actually
so far at least four now known ... to be lost. Hopefully such laggard disregard
won’t damage AP’s “competitive kingdom” in the marketplace.
But really, as long as everyone has their CP4
vertically positioned, with all dew respect there shouldn’t be many more repeats
of such disasters.
Of course, that excludes being struck by mild showers from open domes or
direct hits from sprinklers ... on any CP4.
Joe
From: Steven Elliott steven447@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 4:55 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] CP4 is definitely NOT water tight - VERY
suseptible to DEW flooding
Hi Joe,
You are a very funny man, my
friend, now I truly appreciated your post, and I'm saving it! Thank You for the
enjoyment.
Steve
(PS, you probably realize that
vog is a legit met term nowadays? Doesn't matter if you don't know, I still LOVE
your reply, it made my day)
From: ap-gto@...
on behalf of 'Joseph Zeglinski'
J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] Sent:
Tuesday, 9 October 2018 1:47 AM To:
ap-gto@... Subject: Re: [ap-gto] CP4 is definitely NOT
water tight - VERY suseptible to DEW flooding
Chris,
I don’t know who at AP has been “talking you up”
on this “CP4 corrosion myth”, since I only had Marj posit that theory to me, and
she not being technical, probably heard it from someone else on staff, tossing
it around the table – likely, the so-called “servo engineer” who declared the
first drowned CP4 was definitely not “caused by water corrosion”. Marj then
countermanded his errant opinion – actually, she is way smarter than most. So,
it was definitely just “plain drowning”. The high water mark, an inch-wide
white scum mark, rubs off easily, like chalk, the copper traces were unaffected,
thus the PCB surface was NOT corroded. I just took it for granted that Marj uses
the term “corrosion” someone loosely, as offhand non-technical
parlance, signifying nothing other than there was a swath,
demarcating the depth of dew built up inside the CP4 case, over a few nights of
viewing time – but neither of which had bottom corner DRAIN holes, for the CP4
.... to “relieve itself”.
Now, as you reported in another post’s reply below, as a
professional engineer you are quite familiar with and have regularly experienced
“acid rain corrosion”, such as at your observatory near the Hawaiian volcanoes.
Although you attempted to apply your own circumstance to my pristine site here
in Canada, you should realize that if there had actually been ANY outward sign
of “acid rain corrosion” causing the CP4’s to burn out, then the same
“acidic dew” would have been raining down on my “nylon tarp”, covering the
scope over the past 6 years, (from May 2012). The nylon tarp would be a very
delicate “lace cloth” by now.
You remember, Chris --- my nylon “HINDENBURG
Tarp”, as you recently referred to - covering my AP-1200, with its 900 WATT
automatic dew heater underneath the tarp, keeping it at 60% relative humidity,
24/7/365, when it is not open for a few short hours during a session. Yes ....
the tarp is still quite intact, didn’t burn up as you expected, doing well, with
not even a single pin-prick hole in its large nylon surface – from anything like
acid rain. Besides, Chris, if there were a molecule of sulphuric acid in the dew
downpour entering my leaky CP4 – actually BOTH of them - then the AP-1200
paint job would have yellowed or burned off in spots by now, as would the
primary mirror coating, my backyard lawn wouldn’t be the rich green colour
it has been all summer as in every year, the beautiful flowers bloomed in my
garden a few feet away, fruit trees nearby didn’t prematurely shed their leaves
even until now in the fall, and there wasn’t one single dead bird in the yard –
i.e. no equivalent sure-tell “Coalmine Canary”, if you please.
Is that enough evidence to contradict AP’s cockamamie
assumption your contact is espousing, about “corrosion from acid rain”
causing my CP4’s to fail – BOTH of them – rather than ending up as a one inch
deep baptismal font? I can’t see it being your own professional,
well-considered, engineering conclusion – without evidence.
I assume your own CP4, at the occasionally volcano
gassed, “Waikoloa Hawaii, is on a “new AP model” mount, rather than being
attached at your site’s local Latitude angle on top of the RA axle. So I find
your claim quite interesting ... that with all the “sulphuric acid rain”
occasionally hitting YOUR own CP4, it still has not corroded (inside or
outside), and yet you presume that MY far cleaner Canadian skies have an
even stronger sulphuric acid content than your VOG in Hawaii. This is
Canada ... not VENUS !
You really should check out the pretense your friends at
AP may been trying to foist on you – if that really was the case. Unlike the
“vog” (volcanic fog, as you called it) near your site, the only “smell of
sulphur” here on the North American mainland, might be emanating from
someone’s oval-like office, or more recently coming from under ... “a Bench”
;-)
Clear non-VOG skies, Chris -
Joe Z.
From: 'Christopher Erickson'
christopher.k.erickson@... [ap-gto]
Sent: Sunday, October 7, 2018 7:21 PM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] CP4 is definitely NOT water tight - VERY
suseptible to DEW flooding
There aren't any corrosive gasses or particulates on the top
of Mauna Kea. It is way above the inversion layer. And the humidity at 14,000'
is usually around 20-30%.
Mauna Loa does get "gassed" by sulfur dioxide blown up from
Kilauea from time to time. And when mixed with water becomes sulfuric
acid.
My home is in Waikoloa, on the dry side of the island. Once in
a great while we get a visible cloud of vog (volcanic fog) rolling through,
which is corrosive. Most of the time it is the East side of the island that
suffers from constant humidity, rain and corrosion.
Although I live in Hawaii and regularly have 60-80% humidity
outside, I have NEVER had corrosion problems with my CP4's. And about every
other month I am setting up my scopes within a stone's throw of the
ocean.
-Christopher Erickson Observatory
engineer Summit Kinetics
Hi Chris,
Good advice.
Question: Do you have any
concerns about the salty corrosive atmosphere on the mountain? Trade winds blow
right up the hill, eh?
Steve E
NZ
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