Re: Things that customers do that drive me nuts on CN


Roland Christen
 

One thing I would like to see is to do rapid corrections after a dither so that the star is brought back to zero quickly, after which the rate of corrections can be slowed down. The way things work now, if you have 10 second guide exposures, it might take 40 to 60 seconds for the mount to fully settle after a dither move.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@... [ap-gto]
To: ap-gto
Sent: Tue, Jul 10, 2018 7:19 am
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: Things that customers do that drive me nuts on CN

Hi Craig,

I'll have to take a look at how Prism is using a (presumably 2D) FFT but I think that's still a 20th century technique. The advancements I am talking about do not concern the identification of the stars but in trying to predict guiding behavior based on deep learning techniques using many different variables including telescope load, position, pier side, changing seeing conditions, etc., all learned from previous mechanical behavior under the various conditions. By using deep learning techniques the software should be able to self-adapt the guiding behavior based on what it has learned under the various constraints.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver


> -----Original Message-----
> From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 9:17 PM
> To: ap-gto@...
> Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Things that customers do that drive me nuts on CN
>
>
>
> I used Maxim with my AP900 up until about three years ago and it guided well most of the time, but I abandoned
> it due to crashes/hangs and issues I had trying to get support. After that I switched to TheSkyX and had good
> results with their auto guiding- both with and without CCD AP- at least as good as Maxim. Last year I upgraded
> to an AP1600 which also guided well with TheSkyX. Lately I’ve been using Prism with the AP1600 after installing
> it to help a friend and have been very impressed with it’s auto guiding capabilities- lots of control including support
> for different settings on each axis, nice handling of hot pixels, and a multi-star guiding mode that seems to provide
> the best results for my setup.
>
> I really like what Innovation Foresight is doing with their auto guiding technology, I think they’re using FFT instead
> of stars. They had a very impressive demo set up at NEAF showing how their algorithm can auto guide even
> when stars in the guider FOV just about fade to the point where they blend into the background noise.
>
>
> -Craig
>
>
>
> On Jul 9, 2018, at 11:56 PM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@gralak..com <mailto:groups3@...>
> [ap-gto] gto@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> > options. I have Sky X, but haven't heard much about its guiding.
>
> The Bisque's have been doing astro software probably longer than anyone. CCDSoft V5 autoguiding was
> generally considered to be very
> good, at least on par with MaxmDL's . I think that CCDSoft has evolved to be the camera add on to SkyX,
> so I would expect similar,
> if not improved performance.
>
> Please post any observations once you've had a chance to use it for a while..
>
> Best regards,
>
> -Ray Gralak
> Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> Author of PEMPro V3: https://www..ccdware.com <https://www.ccdware.com>
> Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 8:45 PM
> > To: ap-gto@yahoogroups..com <mailto:ap-gto@...>
> > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Things that customers do that drive me nuts on CN
> >
> >
> >
> > I've never used Maxim but I would suspect it does a great job of guiding. I use PHD, but I'm exploring
> other
> > options. I have Sky X, but haven't heard much about its guiding.
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: ap-gto@... gto@...> on behalf of 'Ray Gralak (Groups)'
> > groups3@... [ap-gto] gto@...>
> > Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 8:38:27 PM
> > To: ap-gto@yahoogroups..com <mailto:ap-gto@...>
> > Subject: RE: [ap-gto] Re: Things that customers do that drive me nuts on CN
> >
> >
> >
> > What I don't get is why some think that the mount is entirely the problem. I think that the autoguiding
> software is
> > at least part of the problem here. Autoguiding is not easy and can be extremely unpredictable.
> >
> > MaximDL has been refining algorithms for 20+ years so I am pretty sure they have an order of magnitude
> more
> > experience testing and developing (trade secret) autoguiding techniques than the entire PHD2 team
> combined.
> > Yet, I do not think that MaximDL's autoguiding algorithms are able to predict all unexpected conditions.
> >
> > Last year I discovered a couple of bugs in PHD2 in the course of one evening of testing. I can only guess
> that
> > most of the current developers who work on this software are doing it for fun. The guiding techniques
> > incorporated are nothing really new so it is not surprising that the PHD2 forum is often ripe with people
> with
> > guiding problems.
> >
> > Case in point is the current dec oscillation issue. Actual declination drift *very* seldom changes direction
> in the
> > sky so if the mount is operating correctly the guiding software should very seldom need to issue a
> reverse
> > direction move. Yet the software does... and way too often in some cases! Now this may just be a
> configuration
> > issue but you can't expect a user to babysit the parameters and know how to change them when seeing
> changes
> > or the mount is flipped to the other side of the pier.
> >
> > I think new approaches to autoguiding are needed to move autoguiding out of 20th century techniques.
> >
> > -Ray Gralak
> > Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center): http://www.astro-
> > physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/apcc
> > Author of PEMPro V3: https://www.ccdware.com
> > Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: https://www.siriusimaging.com/apdriver
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
> > > Sent: Monday, July 9, 2018 7:51 PM
> > > To: ap-gto@...
> > > Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Re: Things that customers do that drive me nuts on CN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >No, it tells everyone to guide at 0.2 MinMo.
> > >
> > >
> > > BTW: Not to be picky, but this is not actually true. If you run the Guiding Assistant it will recommend a
> range of
> > > values based on what it measures on your mount / local seeing conditions. PHD2 often "recommends"
> MinMo
> > or
> > > 0.15 or even 0.10 for my mount, but I have been sticking with 0.20.
> > >
> > >
> > > You'll see on the PHD2 forum thread that Bruce (one of the PHD2 developers) already acknowledged
> that those
> > > recommendations are overly optimistic and I hope they will address that in a future update.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe that 0.20 is the "default" setting if you have not run Guiding Assistant to characterize your
> specific
> > > mount/conditions.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>



------------------------------------
Posted by: "Ray Gralak \(Groups\)" <groups3@...>
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