Re: INDI AP driver


Ray Gralak
 

A lot of us don't depend on IDEs - a lot of us aren't even interested in
producing GUI
applications. If I want to make a CLI for a telescope control system, or a
web
interface, or anything like that - I want to be able to do those things
and have a menu
of appropriate languages to choose from to implement these ideas. If that
means PHP
bindings to a INDI client library, then great. If that means Python or Go
bindings to a
client library, then so be it.

I'll repeat it again: The world does not revolve around GUI apps and
Windows
platforms. Your world might, but not everyone subscribes to your view and
there is a
pent-up desire for the ability to operate outside that world.
An IDE isn't just used for developing GUI apps on Windows. Don't you use
Eclipse on LINUX? (I have). There are many other IDE's for LINUX, but they
are not used just to create apps with a GUI. Of course, if you want to use
an editor like vi, then more power to you. I use vi sometimes too. :-)

The INDI project is evident of this. Ever wonder why the progenitors of
INDI didn't
instead put their efforts into ASCOM?
Because it wouldn't have made sense since COM interop doesn't exist on LINUX
and cross-platform .Net didn't exist at the time.

That said, because of .Net Core I think that many of those Microsoft
developers will start targeting LINUX and Mac/OSX. I think this is a good
thing, whether you believe it or not. In fact, .Net Core on LINUX might be
one of the best things that could have happened to LINUX.

Have you looked at the donetcore github PRs and group members and seen who
they
are? Spoiler alert: it's pretty much all Microsoft or dotnet Foundation
employees.

I can't even believe you wrote that. Of course they are! I would think you
would WANT people from Microsoft developing .Net Core, since .Net originated
with Microsoft.

3. How about another *free* software application from Microsoft, "Code".
It
is available for Windows, Mac, and LINUX and supports numerous
languages:

Again, one should not require IDEs to produce code.
I guess one could walk to work instead of driving too. Microsoft Code is
more of an editor on steroids than an IDE. You should check it out, but no
one is stopping you from using vi if that makes you feel more like a real
programmer.

-Ray Gralak
Author of APCC (Astro-Physics Command Center):
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/accessories/software/apcc/ap
cc
Author of PEMPro: http://www.ccdware.com
Author of Astro-Physics V2 ASCOM Driver: http://www.gralak.com/apdriver
Author of PulseGuide: http://www.pulseguide.com
Author of Sigma: http://www.gralak.com/sigma


-----Original Message-----
From: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2018 11:50 AM
To: ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] INDI AP driver





On Feb 21, 2018, at 10:21 AM, 'Ray Gralak (Groups)' groups3@gralak.com
[ap-gto]
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

And this is a perfect example of one of the big reasons why people do
not
wish to get
involuntarily hitched to anything in the Microsoft world.
Dale, I think your anti-Microsoft sentiment is showing. :-)

1. Microsoft is giving out the best IDE in the world for free to most
small
businesses and independent developers/tinkerers. And the Community
edition
is free to universities.
A lot of us don't depend on IDEs - a lot of us aren't even interested in
producing GUI
applications. If I want to make a CLI for a telescope control system, or a
web
interface, or anything like that - I want to be able to do those things
and have a menu
of appropriate languages to choose from to implement these ideas. If that
means PHP
bindings to a INDI client library, then great. If that means Python or Go
bindings to a
client library, then so be it.

I'll repeat it again: The world does not revolve around GUI apps and
Windows
platforms. Your world might, but not everyone subscribes to your view and
there is a
pent-up desire for the ability to operate outside that world.

The INDI project is evident of this. Ever wonder why the progenitors of
INDI didn't
instead put their efforts into ASCOM? It's because of the continued
hang-up ASCOM
has with existing too up-stack, and too insular on its platform would make
it tortuously
inflexible in trying to bring to on others - and there would be real
trade-offs. Obviously,
they determined it was easier to create a new system than to change the
existing one.
The last paragraph of their "Intended Audience" succinctly conveys their
desire:

http://indilib.org/develop/developer-manual/87-intended-audience.html

2. Microsoft has also made .Net open source and a version of it cross
platform It's here whether you like it or not.
Have you looked at the donetcore github PRs and group members and seen who
they
are? Spoiler alert: it's pretty much all Microsoft or dotnet Foundation
employees.

This is what I call "Github Grandstanding". It's when a company
open-sources a
product (or worse, a subset of a complete product) but they don't actually
grant the
opportunity for the greater community to participate in any reviewer,
committer, or
architecture roles - ergo, any meaningful stewardship roles. While the
code is open-
sourced in the most basic definition, it's a Potemkin village - a place
where you can
look, but not touch. At the end of the day, its direction, features, and
capabilities are
deliberated in Redmond, WA conference rooms and not openly. This is
universally
considered to be unhealthy in the long-term for any truly open source
project. This is
what you're proposing to base a portable ASCOM on, with Microsoft's
continued
devotion to their platform being something it depends on into the unseen
future.

3. How about another *free* software application from Microsoft, "Code".
It
is available for Windows, Mac, and LINUX and supports numerous
languages:

Again, one should not require IDEs to produce code.

/dale





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