Re: Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and drifting


Bruce Donzanti
 

Roland

I'll use my hyperstar lens instead with the CCD camera to get the wider
field. If this works, should I just follow this up with the entire
procedure that George sent?


On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:07 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:




Getting it to the Dec centerline and ignoring RA error means to move it up
or down until it falls on the two horizontal parallel lines that run E/W
but no need to get it in the crosshair.

Yes, that is correct. If you use a star that is within 3 hours of the
zenith, it should also be near the RA line. Make sure that you go due East
and not North-East.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 18, 2017 9:47 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Will try again tonight with a wider field using a finder scope.
Just so I am 100% understanding, *"**Bring the star to the Dec centerline
and ignore any error in RA."...... *When I perform this (using
AZ adjustment knobs only), the star should shift N/S (up/down) if it is
aligned correctly with the crosshairs. Getting it to the Dec centerline
and ignoring RA error means to move it up or down until it falls on the two
horizontal parallel lines that run E/W but no need to get it in the
crosshair.

I am not sure if I am explaining this clearly.

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:29 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Only thing I can do is move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs.
Just adjusting using the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in
the FOV of my CCD camera software screen.

Re-read my instructions below. Bring the star to the Dec centerline and
ignore any error in RA. If you cannot bring the star to your CCD screen,
use a low power finderscope with crosshairs. Don't go too far toward the
horizon.

If a star in the east does not work, then go from a star near the zenith
to a star toward the south somewhere near the celestial equator. For this
one bring the star to the RA centerline (E-W direction) using the azimuth
axis only.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Dec 17, 2017 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Roland

I am at a total loss now and completely stuck. I tried to follow your
steps but after I go to the first star near zenith (Mirach, in this case)
and center it and then hit recal, any other star I go to in the east (tried
Capella and Aldebaran) is just outside the FOV. Only thing I can do is
move it in the FOV with both the ALT and AZ knobs. Just adjusting using
the AZ knobs as required would never get the star in the FOV of my CCD
camera software screen.

So, I cannot even do the drift alignment. I have checked the keypad once
again for time, date, timezone, and tracking setting and they are all
correct. Scope is balanced and leveled and I clearly see Polaris through
the site hole.

Bruce

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 9:40 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



I am unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment.

I assume that you mean drift in Declination, is that correct? If the star
is drifting in declination you may be adjusting the azimuth in the wrong
direction each time.

You can also do another easy test of azimuth this way:
First go to a star overhead near the zenith on one side of the meridian
(example: star on the east side of the meridian, scope on the west side).
Center the star, using the NSEW buttons, exactly on your chip or use a
crosshair eyepiece to center and press Recal.
Next, go to a star further east but not too close to the horizon. Ignore
any pointing error in RA, but now bring the star to the Dec center line by
turning the Azimuth axis. Now send the mount back to the first star
overhead and it should be very near the crosshair. You can move it to the
crosshair again via the NSEW buttons and do another Recal.
Finally send the mount back again to the star in the east and it should be
very close to the Dec center-line (ignore any offset in RA). You can then
do a final touch-up of the azimuth to bring the star to the Dec center-line.

This method of setting the azimuth axis results in the same performance as
the azimuth adjustment in the classic drift method. You can check the drift
at the celestial equator near the meridian. I would expect zero drift using
the above method. I have done this adjustment many times and always got
excellent results (it is part of my Quick Drift method).

If you still have any drift in 3 minutes, then something else is wrong -
perhaps the mirror in your scope is shifting slightly.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 15, 2017 9:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



Hi George

Yes- completely flush- no separation

To recap the scenario.......

After balancing and being level, I do a rough PA and then attach the RAPAS
and adjust the ALT and AZ to match the app. I then slew to a bright star,
center it, and do a re-calibrate. When I slew to any DSO, none are
centered and many are out of the FoV completely even though the scope is in
the general area. So, I have been assuming that I need to check the
accuracy of the RAPAS and perhaps re-align it slightly. This is when I was
trying the drift method which I am having trouble doing - meaning, I am
unable to get a star near the meridian and just above the celestial
equator to not drift for more than 3 mins when performing an AZ
adjustment. I then checked the ALT with a star low in the east near the
celestial equator and that was no problem as the star did not drift for the
10 mins after a small Alt adjustment. I then went back to check AZ but
drifting keeps occurring regardless as to what adjustments I make, even up
to the point where I make such dramatic shifts in AZ that Polaris is almost
off the scale when I look at it through the RAPAS. This is confirmed when
I removed it and looked through the PA scope hole as Polaris was way off
center.

I hope this makes sense as I cannot think how else to explain the problem.

Bruce



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 6:42 AM, George george@astro-physics.com [ap-gto]
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Is the RAPAS flange flush with the mount’s rear plate, or can you see a
little separation?

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513 <(815)%20282-1513>
Email: george@astro-physics.com

*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ap-gto@yahoogroups.com]
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 10:53 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


"I adjust it and to the point where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS
screen."

Dude, that is a problem. :)

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:43 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


No!! You are not understanding- enough with the dude! I am in the
southern sky.
Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 14, 2017, at 8:34 PM, Bill Long bill@outlook.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Polaris? Dude move the scope to the south sky. Do not attempt to do this
in the northern pole. The results will be poor.

------------------------------
*From:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com <ap-gto@yahoogroups..com
<ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>> on behalf of Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
*Sent:* Thursday, December 14, 2017 8:32 PM
*To:* ap-gto@yahoogroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment
and drifting


well, I am obviously not doing something right

For AZ adjustment, I have a star near the meridian and just above the
celestial equator and have it sitting on the crosshairs of the CCD camera
software so that it moves E/W on the horizontal lines and N/S on the
vertical lines. When the star drifts up (N) I use the AZ knobs to move it
right and then re-center to see if the drift is less. At best, I can only
get 3 minutes regardless as to how many times I adjust it and to the point
where Polaris almost goes off of the RAPAS screen.

So, no idea what I a doing wrong and not even sure what to try next. So,
I hope someone can tell me what to try next. I do not see software helping
if the star keeps drifting anyway.

Bruce

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:38 PM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west motion and the vertical
crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion- correct?

Yes, that would simplify your task when doing drift alignment.

Always do azimuth drift align for zero Dec motion first.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

Roland

Got it - Leveling and balance just the usual setup routine

I need to be careful to confirm my N/S/E/W directions (understand up and
down means nothing) so that horizontal crosshairs are parallel to east-west
motion and the vertical crosshairs are parallel to north-south motion-
correct?

Bruce



On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:12 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Level and balance does not affect drift. need to know direction of drift,
RA or Dec. Up/down/left/right has no meaning.

Rolando



-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Dec 14, 2017 11:10 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting

yes and well balanced

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 9:03 AM, Dale Ghent daleg@elemental.org [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Are you certain that your entire mount is level?

On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:31 AM, Bruce Donzanti donza2735@gmail.com
[ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



Thanks Roland

I tried last night but could never get Capella, near Zenith, to stop
drifting upward regardless as to how far I adjusted with the altitude
adjustment knob. I'll try again tonight but it is not obvious at this point
what I am doing wrong. I was able to first adjust azimuth from drifting.

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 8:35 AM, chris1011@aol.com [ap-gto] <
ap-gto@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes.
Start by adjusting the azimuth axis until a star at the meridian near
the celestial equator does not drift in Dec. Once that is done, you have
half of your alignment finished and won't need to adjust the azimuth any
further.

Now all you need to do is adjust the altitude axis. Choose a star near
the zenith and raise or lower your altitude axis until that star does not
drift in RA. Your mount is now polar aligned and drift is zeroed out over a
large portion of the sky.

Now you can adjust the RAPAS alignment so that it puts Polaris at the
right point on the scale. From then on you won't have to do the drift align
procedure, just use the RAPAs and you should be very close to the pole each
time.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: donza2735@gmail.com [ap-gto] <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 7:58 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Need advice with new Mach1GTO: Polar Alignment and
drifting



I just bought a Mach1GTO for my de-forked C11" and am still feeling out
how the mount works. I also bought the RAPAS for PA. The scope is balanced
and it is leveled in the E/W direction.

I did an initial rough PA and then used the RAPAS and the app to
complete the fine alignment. Using my UltraStar camera at f/5, I did a
drift test on Sirius as it was low in the southeastern sky and it remained
centered for 5 mins before I noticed any drift. Then I did the same with
Menkar just off the meridian and near the celestial equator and it only
stayed centered for about 1 and a half minutes. I then looked once again on
the RAPAS and Polaris seemed spot on compared to the app. So, I am
concluding from this that the RAPAS needs to be realigned as AP suggests
could be the case.. My question: What is the simplest and best way to do
the drift alignment which I have never done?
I am a Mac user and I am aware that AP highly recommends PemPro which is
a Windows program vs. doing the drift alignment manually. I also realize
that the simplest and best ways may not be the same. I do have an Intel
compute stick with Windows 10 if folks think PemPro is the way to go.

Thanks in advance,
Bruce





























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