Re: Digest Number 6510


Robert Shartrand <rsgj0205@...>
 

“It's a very old mount, probably has been slewed around the sky for many many years. Eventually the teeth on a metal gear will wear. The solution is to send the gearbox back and we will fit new gears that have less backlash.”

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.


Hey Rolando,

Is a 2010 AP1200 really considered a “very old mount”? Mine is a 2009 model and has been well used.
So far so good…….I have greased the worms, rings and the gearboxes. But how *often* should I re-grease
those gears and what about the shaft bearings?

Bob


Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

From: ap-gto@...<mailto:ap-gto@...>
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 1:01 PM
To: ap-gto@...<mailto:ap-gto@...>
Subject: [ap-gto] Digest Number 6510

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AP GTO Group <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZDRiZWhnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BHNlYwNoZHIEc2xrA2hwaARzdGltZQMxNDc2NDY4MDgz>
15 Messages
Digest #6510
1a
Re: AP900 Gto Auto-Guiding woes. by salfranc
1b
Re: AP900 Gto Auto-Guiding woes. by darklightimagery
1c
Re: AP900 Gto Auto-Guiding woes. by uncarollo2
2a
AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? by "Timo Inkinen" timoi63
2b
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? by "Konstantin v. Poschinger" kposchinger
2c
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? by "George" george4ap
2d
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? by timoi63
2e
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? by timoi63
2f
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? by timoi63
2g
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? by uncarollo2
3a
Re: Park 0 by "Suresh Mohan Neelmegh" swashyasuresh
3b
Re: Park 0 by uncarollo2
3c
Re: Park 0 by "Suresh Mohan Neelmegh" swashyasuresh
3d
Re: Park 0 by jimmyjujames
3e
Re: Park 0 by uncarollo2

Messages
1a
Re: AP900 Gto Auto-Guiding woes. <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54413;_ylc=X3oDMTJydTNyYjZmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDEzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:03 am (PDT) . Posted by:
salfranc <mailto:salfranc@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP900%20Gto%20Auto-Guiding%20woes%2E>
Hi,
Good idea for the cables. I will do that.
Vince

Reply to sender <mailto:salfranc@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP900%20Gto%20Auto-Guiding%20woes%2E> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP900%20Gto%20Auto-Guiding%20woes%2E> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54413;_ylc=X3oDMTJyc2Q5bm1kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDEzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54413> . All Messages (15) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54393;_ylc=X3oDMTM3N25pM241BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDEzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQzOTM-> . Top ^
1b
Re: AP900 Gto Auto-Guiding woes. <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54414;_ylc=X3oDMTJybXBmaDVnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:26 am (PDT) . Posted by:
darklightimagery <mailto:chris@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP900%20Gto%20Auto-Guiding%20woes%2E>
Christopher:

Do you have any example images of your cable routing? All of my cables are secured to the back end of my OTA/STT-8300. And I mean a lot of cables! I tried routing them along the axis/pier, but didn't have enough slack at that point. As they are now, the can't hang on anything, and can't move or put any strain on any connectors (pigtailed at the connection). But I'd think there has to be a better way.


https://goo.gl/photos/7gh1zRPyd3owiXnu7 https://goo.gl/photos/7gh1zRPyd3owiXnu7



Thanks. Good thread!


CG


PS: Roland, when you say any movement of the guiding cable can result in errors, are you refering to just weight or physical strain on the guider plug?
Reply to sender <mailto:chris@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP900%20Gto%20Auto-Guiding%20woes%2E> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP900%20Gto%20Auto-Guiding%20woes%2E> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54414;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2FjcDJqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54414> . All Messages (15) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54393;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aWYybXBrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQzOTM-> . Top ^
1c
Re: AP900 Gto Auto-Guiding woes. <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54417;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2NraHJwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:13 am (PDT) . Posted by:
uncarollo2 <mailto:chris1011@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP900%20Gto%20Auto-Guiding%20woes%2E>

This may not be the source of your guiding issues, but one thing I see in your setup that can cause problems is that your guide scope is attached to the rings of the imaging scope. The imaging scope will always move slightly inside those rings and you will have differential movement between guider and imaging scopes. I always advise that if you use a separate guide scope that it must be rigidly affixed to the imaging scope itself with its own bracket and ring system.

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: chris@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Fri, Oct 14, 2016 9:26 am
Subject: [ap-gto] Re: AP900 Gto Auto-Guiding woes.

Christopher:

Do you have any example images of your cable routing? All of my cables are secured to the back end of my OTA/STT-8300. And I mean a lot of cables! I tried routing them along the axis/pier, but didn't have enough slack at that point. As they are now, the can't hang on anything, and can't move or put any strain on any connectors (pigtailed at the connection). But I'd think there has to be a better way.

https://goo.gl/photos/7gh1zRPyd3owiXnu7

Thanks. Good thread!

CG

PS: Roland, when you say any movement of the guiding cable can result in errors, are you refering to just weight or physical strain on the guider plug?

Reply to sender <mailto:chris1011@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP900%20Gto%20Auto-Guiding%20woes%2E> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP900%20Gto%20Auto-Guiding%20woes%2E> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54417;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNGs4OWNuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54417> . All Messages (15) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54393;_ylc=X3oDMTM3ZGJnbGdmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQzOTM-> . Top ^
2a
AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54415;_ylc=X3oDMTJyMXZib250BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:26 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Timo Inkinen" timoi63 <mailto:timo.p.inkinen@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F>
Hi all,

I have bought a second hand AP 1200 GTO mount made ca. 2010 (serial
1200926).
I have found out that this unit has a DEC backlash problem, which shows up
in all backlash tests taken with PulseGuise and PEMPro.
You can see this in my backlash test picture here:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G
TO/Backlash_06102016.jpg/_full.jpg

I have done lots of debugging with my mount to find out where the cause for
this backlash problem resides.
Starting from the www.astro-physics.com/tech_sup
port/mounts/1200gto/Gear%20Mesh%201200.pdf document measures in gear
meshing and ending into camera cable fixings plus guiding software
parameter adjustments.
But despite of that all, I CANNOT get this backlash out of my AP 1200, no
matter what I do on my own and with the help suggestions from AP support.

On the last weekend I took the DEC gear mesh system apart and disassembled
the DEC gear mesh from the mount altogether.
Then I drove this DEC gear meshing with standard PulseGuide test #3. Ten
pulses with 500ms Pulse Duration were sent and results for that test can be
seen in this GIF animation taken closely from my mount gears:
http://personal.inet.fi/luonto/kuvagalleria/temp/DEC_Gear_
Mesh_animation_small.gif
Look up there how the foremost gear moves (or actually DOES NOT move)
compared to the little gear on the left.That little gear (on the left) is
attached directly on the motor shaft and the big gear (in the front) is one
gear away from worm screw gear.
THis animation was taken with my DSLR camera and timer taking sequence of
photos during the test #3. A total of 42 photos were taken, but only half
of those were needed as there was a gear change in every other image.

As you can see from that GIF-animation, it is quite evident that my
backlash problems come from this AP1200 mount’s reduction spur gear-set
play.
There are about three motor pulses sent (each 500ms duration in this test),
which are required for the foremost big gear movement to start the movement
in this test. As you can see, there is no play between the motor drive
shaft’s first spur gear and the second Delrin / Brass spur gear system. But
there is too way too much play (!) between this third brass gear and the
foremost (fourth) steel gear. Delrin and brass gears are attached to each

other tightly.

I have asked what can be done for this excessive play from AP support, but
they seem to be quite helpless with it as I cannot get any reply for this
issue. I have sent them my latest mail on Sunday and and now on Friday
afternoon here in Finland, I haven’t still received any response for that
question. Before this gear mesh finding I received almost daily support
suggestions in the last week for all kinds of backlash issues, which could
be related to my own backlash problems. But none of those suggestions
referred to this kind of backlash play.

I know there will always be some amount of play in all gear systems, but I
think this much play is excessive for a quality product like AP1200.
My own diagnosis is that there is some wear in the DEC gear set, which has
gradually caused this excessive play between the brass and steel gear.

Do you know, if there are some adjustments for this reduction gear meshing,
which could reduce this gear play?
I have adjusted the play between motor gear and Delrin gear with the motor
adjustment seen in this picture:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G
TO/ServoMotor_attachment_closeup.jpg
But I have not found anything else, which could fix this brass/steel gear
play seen in that animation as that foremost gear does not have nay
adjustment in its' attachment to this DEC unit.

Also I would like to know, if I can I buy replacement gears for this kind
of gear set somewhere (from AP or its’ re-seller in Europe)?
You know, IF it is the wear in gears that causes this backlash seen here...
Below is more information on this problem.

Here is one image from cable ties:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G
TO/IMG_20161009_cable_ties.jpg
Here is how this backlash shows in PHD2 software with almost regular setup:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G
TO/PHD2_guiding_2x2bin_no_backlash_compensation.jpg
And here PHD2 Guider Assistant’s diagnosis for this backlash (note ca.
1800ms backlash compensation need):
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G
TO/PHD2/PHD2_12.jpg
Here is a high resolution image of this gear set: (4000x3000 px, 1.5MB)
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G
TO/GearMesh_closeup_big.jpg/_full.jpg
AP1200's spur gear is firmly attached to the shaft with this kind of screw
firmly attached there:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G
TO/SpurGear_attachment_screw.jpg
Some PulseGuide backlash test with 0,5x guide speed:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G
TO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_5x.jpg/_full.jpg
The same test with 0,25x guide speed only:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G
TO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_25x.jpg/_full.jpg

Can someone give me some advise for this kind of backlash problem, please?
Thanks!

Br, Timo Inkinen
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/
Reply to sender <mailto:timo.p.inkinen@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54415;_ylc=X3oDMTJydDQzczQ4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54415> . All Messages (7) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54415;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aXU1NXF2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQ0MTU-> . Top ^
2b
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54416;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNDN2OTJlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE2BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:30 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Konstantin v. Poschinger" kposchinger <mailto:k.poschinger@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F>
Hi Timo,

have ever tried and set a backslash time other than 0?

Konstantin

Konstantin v. Poschinger

Hammerichstr. 5
22605 Hamburg
040/8805747
0171 1983476

Am 14.10.2016 um 16:03 schrieb Timo Inkinen timo.p.inkinen@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>:


Hi all,

I have bought a second hand AP 1200 GTO mount made ca. 2010 (serial 1200926).
I have found out that this unit has a DEC backlash problem, which shows up in all backlash tests taken with PulseGuise and PEMPro.
You can see this in my backlash test picture here:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/Backlash_06102016.jpg/_full.jpg

I have done lots of debugging with my mount to find out where the cause for this backlash problem resides.
Starting from the www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/1200gto/Gear%20Mesh%201200.pdf <http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/1200gto/Gear%20Mesh%201200.pdf> document measures in gear meshing and ending into camera cable fixings plus guiding software parameter adjustments.
But despite of that all, I CANNOT get this backlash out of my AP 1200, no matter what I do on my own and with the help suggestions from AP support.

On the last weekend I took the DEC gear mesh system apart and disassembled the DEC gear mesh from the mount altogether.
Then I drove this DEC gear meshing with standard PulseGuide test #3. Ten pulses with 500ms Pulse Duration were sent and results for that test can be seen in this GIF animation taken closely from my mount gears:
http://personal.inet.fi/luonto/kuvagalleria/temp/DEC_Gear_Mesh_animation_small.gif
Look up there how the foremost gear moves (or actually DOES NOT move) compared to the little gear on the left.That little gear (on the left) is attached directly on the motor shaft and the big gear (in the front) is one gear away from worm screw gear.
THis animation was taken with my DSLR camera and timer taking sequence of photos during the test #3. A total of 42 photos were taken, but only half of those were needed as there was a gear change in every other image.

As you can see from that GIF-animation, it is quite evident that my backlash problems come from this AP1200 mount’s reduction spur gear-set play.
There are about three motor pulses sent (each 500ms duration in this test), which are required for the foremost big gear movement to start the movement in this test. As you can see, there is no play between the motor drive shaft’s first spur gear and the second Delrin / Brass spur gear system. But there is too way too much play (!) between this third brass gear and the foremost (fourth) steel gear. Delrin and brass gears are attached to each other tightly.

I have asked what can be done for this excessive play from AP support, but they seem to be quite helpless with it as I cannot get any reply for this issue. I have sent them my latest mail on Sunday and and now on Friday afternoon here in Finland, I haven’t still received any response for that question. Before this gear mesh finding I received almost daily support suggestions in the last week for all kinds of backlash issues, which could be related to my own backlash problems. But none of those suggestions referred to this kind of backlash play.

I know there will always be some amount of play in all gear systems, but I think this much play is excessive for a quality product like AP1200.
My own diagnosis is that there is some wear in the DEC gear set, which has gradually caused this excessive play between the brass and steel gear.

Do you know, if there are some adjustments for this reduction gear meshing, which could reduce this gear play?
I have adjusted the play between motor gear and Delrin gear with the motor adjustment seen in this picture:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/ServoMotor_attachment_closeup.jpg
But I have not found anything else, which could fix this brass/steel gear play seen in that animation as that foremost gear does not have nay adjustment in its' attachment to this DEC unit.

Also I would like to know, if I can I buy replacement gears for this kind of gear set somewhere (from AP or its’ re-seller in Europe)?
You know, IF it is the wear in gears that causes this backlash seen here...
Below is more information on this problem.

Here is one image from cable ties:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/IMG_20161009_cable_ties.jpg
Here is how this backlash shows in PHD2 software with almost regular setup:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2_guiding_2x2bin_no_backlash_compensation.jpg
And here PHD2 Guider Assistant’s diagnosis for this backlash (note ca. 1800ms backlash compensation need):
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2/PHD2_12.jpg
Here is a high resolution image of this gear set: (4000x3000 px, 1.5MB)
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/GearMesh_closeup_big.jpg/_full.jpg
AP1200's spur gear is firmly attached to the shaft with this kind of screw firmly attached there:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/SpurGear_attachment_screw.jpg
Some PulseGuide backlash test with 0,5x guide speed:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_5x.jpg/_full.jpg
The same test with 0,25x guide speed only:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_25x.jpg/_full.jpg

Can someone give me some advise for this kind of backlash problem, please?
Thanks!

Br, Timo Inkinen
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/

Reply to sender <mailto:k.poschinger@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54416;_ylc=X3oDMTJyM2pncWVrBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE2BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54416> . All Messages (7) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54415;_ylc=X3oDMTM3c3FvaHFvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE2BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQ0MTU-> . Top ^
2c
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54420;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZHAyZmUxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIwBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:54 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"George" george4ap <mailto:george@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F>
Timo,

Sorry, for the delay, I have been out of the office for medical reasons. It is best that you send your Dec Motor Gearbox to us for examination and repair as needed. I will send you a return authorization number.

Regards,

George

George Whitney
Astro-Physics, Inc.
Phone: 815-282-1513
Email: george@...

From: ap-gto@... [mailto:ap-gto@...]
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:04 AM
To: ap-gto@...
Subject: [ap-gto] AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear?


Hi all,

I have bought a second hand AP 1200 GTO mount made ca. 2010 (serial 1200926).
I have found out that this unit has a DEC backlash problem, which shows up in all backlash tests taken with PulseGuise and PEMPro.
You can see this in my backlash test picture here:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/Backlash_06102016.jpg/_full.jpg

I have done lots of debugging with my mount to find out where the cause for this backlash problem resides.
Starting from the www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/1200gto/Gear%20Mesh%201200.pdf<http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/1200gto/Gear%20Mesh%201200.pdf> document measures in gear meshing and ending into camera cable fixings plus guiding software parameter adjustments.
But despite of that all, I CANNOT get this backlash out of my AP 1200, no matter what I do on my own and with the help suggestions from AP support.

On the last weekend I took the DEC gear mesh system apart and disassembled the DEC gear mesh from the mount altogether.
Then I drove this DEC gear meshing with standard PulseGuide test #3. Ten pulses with 500ms Pulse Duration were sent and results for that test can be seen in this GIF animation taken closely from my mount gears:
http://personal.inet.fi/luonto/kuvagalleria/temp/DEC_Gear_Mesh_animation_small.gif
Look up there how the foremost gear moves (or actually DOES NOT move) compared to the little gear on the left.That little gear (on the left) is attached directly on the motor shaft and the big gear (in the front) is one gear away from worm screw gear.
THis animation was taken with my DSLR camera and timer taking sequence of photos during the test #3. A total of 42 photos were taken, but only half of those were needed as there was a gear change in every other image.

As you can see from that GIF-animation, it is quite evident that my backlash problems come from this AP1200 mount’s reduction spur gear-set play.
There are about three motor pulses sent (each 500ms duration in this test), which are required for the foremost big gear movement to start the movement in this test. As you can see, there is no play between the motor drive shaft’s first spur gear and the second Delrin / Brass spur gear system. But there is too way too much play (!) between this third brass gear and the foremost (fourth) steel gear. Delrin and brass gears are attached to each other tightly.

I have asked what can be done for this excessive play from AP support, but they seem to be quite helpless with it as I cannot get any reply for this issue. I have sent them my latest mail on Sunday and and now on Friday afternoon here in Finland, I haven’t still received any response for that question. Before this gear mesh finding I received almost daily support suggestions in the last week for all kinds of backlash issues, which could be related to my own backlash problems. But none of those suggestions referred to this kind of backlash play.

I know there will always be some amount of play in all gear systems, but I think this much play is excessive for a quality product like AP1200.
My own diagnosis is that there is some wear in the DEC gear set, which has gradually caused this excessive play between the brass and steel gear.
Do you know, if there are some adjustments for this reduction gear meshing, which could reduce this gear play?
I have adjusted the play between motor gear and Delrin gear with the motor adjustment seen in this picture:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/ServoMotor_attachment_closeup.jpg
But I have not found anything else, which could fix this brass/steel gear play seen in that animation as that foremost gear does not have nay adjustment in its' attachment to this DEC unit.

Also I would like to know, if I can I buy replacement gears for this kind of gear set somewhere (from AP or its’ re-seller in Europe)?
You know, IF it is the wear in gears that causes this backlash seen here...
Below is more information on this problem.
Here is one image from cable ties:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/IMG_20161009_cable_ties.jpg
Here is how this backlash shows in PHD2 software with almost regular setup:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2_guiding_2x2bin_no_backlash_compensation.jpg
And here PHD2 Guider Assistant’s diagnosis for this backlash (note ca. 1800ms backlash compensation need):
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2/PHD2_12.jpg
Here is a high resolution image of this gear set: (4000x3000 px, 1.5MB)
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/GearMesh_closeup_big.jpg/_full.jpg
AP1200's spur gear is firmly attached to the shaft with this kind of screw firmly attached there:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/SpurGear_attachment_screw.jpg
Some PulseGuide backlash test with 0,5x guide speed:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_5x.jpg/_full.jpg
The same test with 0,25x guide speed only:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_25x.jpg/_full.jpg

Can someone give me some advise for this kind of backlash problem, please?
Thanks!

Br, Timo Inkinen
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/

Reply to sender <mailto:george@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54420;_ylc=X3oDMTJybGFzNWs3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIwBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54420> . All Messages (7) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54415;_ylc=X3oDMTM3cnNwamhsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIwBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQ0MTU-> . Top ^
2d
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54422;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZmp1YzBjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:27 am (PDT) . Posted by:
timoi63 <mailto:timo.p.inkinen@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F>
Hi George,

Sorry, for the delay, I have been out of the office for medical reasons. It is best that you send your Dec Motor Gearbox to us for examination and repair as needed. I will send you a return authorization number.
I'm sorry to hear about your medical problems. We can continue with private emails about that DEC gearbox return.

But in general sense it would be good to get some kind of end conclusion for this message thread too. I know it's too early for that, but I can ask this on general level;
is it possible to to get excessive wear into gear mesh, if the former owner needed to carry this heavy AP1200 mount in and out every time he wanted to observe? I think he devided it into two pieces like it should do. But that DEC Gearbox is so conveniently right there in your hand grip area and while you know you need to beware and care for it, then force grip can happen accidentally.

I can write the result of that maintenance here, but I guess it will take some time for the package to travel there and back.

Br, Timo

Reply to sender <mailto:timo.p.inkinen@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54422;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZHAwMDhpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54422> . All Messages (7) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54415;_ylc=X3oDMTM3Ym0wNWdtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIyBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQ0MTU-> . Top ^
2e
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54423;_ylc=X3oDMTJyMWw3a2diBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:41 am (PDT) . Posted by:
timoi63 <mailto:timo.p.inkinen@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F>
Hi Konstantin,

have ever tried and set a backslash time other than 0?
Nope, because in my discussions with AP support they always sais that I should remove any backlash setup from GTOCP3 and do the same also for PEC (disable those). I personally think too, that it would be best to get tracking as good as it gets without any additional backlash compensation. And then (after this, if it is still required) setup backlash timing accordingly. This is a sort of perfectionist / purist way of doing setup, which I'm trying to follow here.

I would like to know how much AP1200 backlash should I tolerate? What is the normal amount of backlash for a well tuned AP1200 mount? In my mount, this amount of needed backlash compensation is quite big (=huge for an AP mount, I think). And for this reason, I should not just use backlash compensation in software or GTOCP3.

I can show you a PHD2 graph for that, where I have used PHD2's Guiding Assistant recommendations:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2/PHD2_31_explained.jpg/_full.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2/PHD2_31_explained.jpg/_full.jpg
Normally you can get away with 50ms pulses in DEC guiding and then you need 1800 ms guide pulse for switching directions, IF you let PHD2 to do its' corrections at one go. That tells me that there is something wrong in my mount with its' backlash.
Here is the same backlash thing in close-up (zoomed-in) view:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2/PHD2_32_explained.jpg/_full.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2/PHD2_32_explained.jpg/_full.jpg

If I do not allow this 1800 ms backlash compensation in PHD2, then I will get this kind of slow drift in DEC axis: (both ways let me image with round stars)
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2_guiding_2x2bin_no_backlash_compensation_backlash_causes_drift.jpg/_full.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2_guiding_2x2bin_no_backlash_compensation_backlash_causes_drift.jpg/_full.jpg
In that image PHD2 makes a series of smaller corrections, which gradually "pulls-in" all looseness in DEC axis (=backlash) and when gears finally engage, then direction for tracking error changes (and you need to have small enough pulse into the opposite direction, so that you don't overshoot with it). And then, after this correction drift starts again. Sort of weird balance I have found from there. Anyway, my polar alignment accuracy is somewhere in 2'...4' range and guiding in one direction (N/S) only loses star permanently on the "wrong side". That happens randomly, so I prefer keep guiding in Auto mode for DEC.

My setup is in a permanent roll-of-roof observatory seen in this image:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/IMG_20160905_AP1200GTO_1.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/IMG_20160905_AP1200GTO_1.jpg
(Don't look at the missing cable ties, this is an early image of my current setup ;)

Br, Timo

PS. Should I delete "the tail below" from my reply into this AP group? I'm not familiar with this interface, so I need to ask :-)

---In ap-gto@..., <k.poschinger@...> wrote :

Hi Timo,

have ever tried and set a backslash time other than 0?


Konstantin



Konstantin v. Poschinger

Hammerichstr. 5
22605 Hamburg
040/8805747
0171 1983476

Am 14.10.2016 um 16:03 schrieb Timo Inkinen timo.p.inkinen@... mailto:timo.p.inkinen@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@... mailto:ap-gto@...>:



Hi all,

I have bought a second hand AP 1200 GTO mount made ca. 2010 (serial 1200926).
I have found out that this unit has a DEC backlash problem, which shows up in all backlash tests taken with PulseGuise and PEMPro.
You can see this in my backlash test picture here:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/k uvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G TO/Backlash_06102016.jpg/_ full.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/Backlash_06102016.jpg/_full.jpg

I have done lots of debugging with my mount to find out where the cause for this backlash problem resides.
Starting from the www.astro-physics.com/tech_sup port/mounts/1200gto/Gear%20Mes h%201200.pdf http://www.astro-physics.com/tech_support/mounts/1200gto/Gear%20Mesh%201200.pdf document measures in gear meshing and ending into camera cable fixings plus guiding software parameter adjustments.
But despite of that all, I CANNOT get this backlash out of my AP 1200, no matter what I do on my own and with the help suggestions from AP support.

On the last weekend I took the DEC gear mesh system apart and disassembled the DEC gear mesh from the mount altogether.
Then I drove this DEC gear meshing with standard PulseGuide test #3. Ten pulses with 500ms Pulse Duration were sent and results for that test can be seen in this GIF animation taken closely from my mount gears:
http://personal.inet.fi/luonto /kuvagalleria/temp/DEC_Gear_ Mesh_animation_small.gif http://personal.inet.fi/luonto/kuvagalleria/temp/DEC_Gear_Mesh_animation_small.gif
Look up there how the foremost gear moves (or actually DOES NOT move) compared to the little gear on the left.That little gear (on the left) is attached directly on the motor shaft and the big gear (in the front) is one gear away from worm screw gear.

THis animation was taken with my DSLR camera and timer taking sequence of photos during the test #3. A total of 42 photos were taken, but only half of those were needed as there was a gear change in every other image.


As you can see from that GIF-animation, it is quite evident that my backlash problems come from this AP1200 mount’s reduction spur gear-set play.
There are about three motor pulses sent (each 500ms duration in this test), which are required for the foremost big gear movement to start the movement in this test. As you can see, there is no play between the motor drive shaft’s first spur gear and the second Delrin / Brass spur gear system. But there is too way too much play (!) between this third brass gear and the foremost (fourth) steel gear. Delrin and brass gears are attached to each other tightly.

I have asked what can be done for this excessive play from AP support, but they seem to be quite helpless with it as I cannot get any reply for this issue. I have sent them my latest mail on Sunday and and now on Friday afternoon here in Finland, I haven’t still received any response for that question. Before this gear mesh finding I received almost daily support suggestions in the last week for all kinds of backlash issues, which could be related to my own backlash problems. But none of those suggestions referred to this kind of backlash play.


I know there will always be some amount of play in all gear systems, but I think this much play is excessive for a quality product like AP1200.
My own diagnosis is that there is some wear in the DEC gear set, which has gradually caused this excessive play between the brass and steel gear.


Do you know, if there are some adjustments for this reduction gear meshing, which could reduce this gear play?
I have adjusted the play between motor gear and Delrin gear with the motor adjustment seen in this picture:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/k uvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G TO/ServoMotor_attachment_ closeup.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/ServoMotor_attachment_closeup.jpg
But I have not found anything else, which could fix this brass/steel gear play seen in that animation as that foremost gear does not have nay adjustment in its' attachment to this DEC unit.

Also I would like to know, if I can I buy replacement gears for this kind of gear set somewhere (from AP or its’ re-seller in Europe)?
You know, IF it is the wear in gears that causes this backlash seen here...
Below is more information on this problem.


Here is one image from cable ties:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/k uvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G TO/IMG_20161009_cable_ties.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/IMG_20161009_cable_ties.jpg

Here is how this backlash shows in PHD2 software with almost regular setup:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/k uvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G TO/PHD2_guiding_2x2bin_no_ backlash_compensation.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2_guiding_2x2bin_no_backlash_compensation.jpg

And here PHD2 Guider Assistant’s diagnosis for this backlash (note ca. 1800ms backlash compensation need):
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/k uvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G TO/PHD2/PHD2_12.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PHD2/PHD2_12.jpg

Here is a high resolution image of this gear set: (4000x3000 px, 1.5MB)
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/k uvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G TO/GearMesh_closeup_big.jpg/_ full.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/GearMesh_closeup_big.jpg/_full.jpg
AP1200's spur gear is firmly attached to the shaft with this kind of screw firmly attached there:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/k uvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G TO/SpurGear_attachment_screw. jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/SpurGear_attachment_screw.jpg
Some PulseGuide backlash test with 0,5x guide speed:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/k uvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G TO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_ 5x.jpg/_full.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_5x.jpg/_full.jpg
The same test with 0,25x guide speed only:
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/k uvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200G TO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_ 25x.jpg/_full.jpg http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/kuvat/Kuvauslaitteistot/AP1200GTO/PulseGuide_backlash_test_0_25x.jpg/_full.jpg

Can someone give me some advise for this kind of backlash problem, please?
Thanks!

Br, Timo Inkinen
http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/ http://astrokuva.galleria.fi/













Reply to sender <mailto:timo.p.inkinen@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54423;_ylc=X3oDMTJydmRmMXJxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54423> . All Messages (7) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54415;_ylc=X3oDMTM3MGs1ZGs1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQ0MTU-> . Top ^
2f
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54425;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYjk5N2Y0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDI1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:49 am (PDT) . Posted by:
timoi63 <mailto:timo.p.inkinen@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F>
Hi Konstantin,

have ever tried and set a backslash time other than 0?
Nope, but I think we should get backlash minimized with other methods, before we start doing compensation in software. That's why I have been trying to figure out what actually causes that backlash instead of quickly fixing it with software solution.

It seems there is something wrong there in this mount's DEC Gearbox now that George from AP support posted in this message thread too. He is saying I should send that gearbox back to AP in USA.

PS. I wrote a longer reply to you too, but it seemed to get lost from this thread.

Br, Timo
Reply to sender <mailto:timo.p.inkinen@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54425;_ylc=X3oDMTJyaHZtZjY4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDI1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54425> . All Messages (7) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54415;_ylc=X3oDMTM3YTEzaHBzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDI1BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQ0MTU-> . Top ^
2g
Re: AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear? <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54427;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZjYzcWphBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDI3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:01 am (PDT) . Posted by:
uncarollo2 <mailto:chris1011@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F>

It's a very old mount, probably has been slewed around the sky for many many years. Eventually the teeth on a metal gear will wear. The solution is to send the gearbox back and we will fit new gears that have less backlash.

Roland Christen
Astro-Physics Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: timo.p.inkinen@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Fri, Oct 14, 2016 12:27 pm
Subject: RE: [ap-gto] AP1200 GTO and backlash in its brass gear?

Hi George,

Sorry, for the delay, I have been out of the office for medical reasons. It is best that you send your Dec Motor Gearbox to us for examination and repair as needed. I willsend you a return authorization number.
I'm sorry to hear about your medical problems. We can continue with private emails about that DEC gearbox return.

But in general sense it would be good to get some kind of end conclusion for this message thread too. I know it's too early for that, but I can ask this on general level;
is it possible to to get excessive wear into gear mesh, if the former owner needed to carry this heavy AP1200 mount in and out every time he wanted to observe? I think he devided it into two pieces like it should do. But that DEC Gearbox is so conveniently right there in your hand grip area and while you know you need to beware and care for it, then force grip can happen accidentally.

I can write the result of that maintenance here, but I guess it will take some time for the package to travel there and back.

Br, Timo

Reply to sender <mailto:chris1011@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20AP1200%20GTO%20and%20backlash%20in%20its%20brass%20gear%3F> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54427;_ylc=X3oDMTJyNm91cDAxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDI3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54427> . All Messages (7) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54415;_ylc=X3oDMTM3NjBldXFsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDI3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQ0MTU-> . Top ^
3a
Re: Park 0 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54418;_ylc=X3oDMTJyb2psaTQyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:15 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Suresh Mohan Neelmegh" swashyasuresh <mailto:drsureshmohan@...?subject=Re%3A%20Park%200>
Hi Roland ,
With auto connect set to NO , today I centered on Vega . After I locked on to Vega , I simply slewed else where ; - park 0- power up - select location 1 - option 3 - main screen - Vega and it slewed all the way to horizon ! Tommorow I will try auto connect - yes
Suresh
On 12-Oct-2016, at 6:54 AM, Suresh Mohan Neelmegh <drsureshmohan@...> wrote:

My auto connect is set to no , will change to yes
Thanks
Suresh

Sent from my iPhone

On 12-Oct-2016, at 4:04 AM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

Since day1 the mount begins tracking the moment power is turned on, regardless of keypad setting. It was done that way so that people can use the mount any time, day or night, even without a keypad for general visual astronomy. Basically the mount follows the rotation of the earth when you plug it in to the 12 volt supply. Once you initialize the mount, then you are able to do Go-To functions using the internal database of the mount.

For the newest CP4, you can set your servo using APCC to turn off tracking on power-up for situations where you don't want to have the mount tracking after a power interruption. All of that is explained in our extensive manuals (however I realize that it's easier to just ask ;^)).

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2016 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Park 0



Rolando,

Please remind me – does the HC firmware using Autoconnect = Yes ... resume the (unattended) mount’s tracking the moment that power comes back after an “actual” location power failure? That would be my only concern, if I was away from the mount at the time.

Joe


Reply to sender <mailto:drsureshmohan@...?subject=Re%3A%20Park%200> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20Park%200> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54418;_ylc=X3oDMTJyaWxwOTRlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54418> . All Messages (18) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54371;_ylc=X3oDMTM3dTlkN3VhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE4BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQzNzE-> . Top ^
3b
Re: Park 0 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54419;_ylc=X3oDMTJybzkyY2JmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:28 am (PDT) . Posted by:
uncarollo2 <mailto:chris1011@...?subject=Re%3A%20Park%200>


With auto connect set to NO , today I centered on Vega . After I locked on to Vega , I simply slewed else where ; - park 0- power up - select location 1 - option 3 - main screen - Vega and it slewed all the way to horizon ! Tommorow I will try auto connect - yes
Suresh

I really don't understand what you are doing. It appears to me that you are parking in one undefined park location and then trying to resume from another defined park location. Of course you will cause the mount to be lost.

Rolando

-----Original Message-----
From: Suresh Mohan Neelmegh drsureshmohan@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Fri, Oct 14, 2016 11:15 am
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Park 0

Hi Roland ,
With auto connect set to NO , today I centered on Vega . After I locked on to Vega , I simply slewed else where ; - park 0- power up - select location 1 - option 3 - main screen - Vega and it slewed all the way to horizon ! Tommorow I will try auto connect - yes
Suresh
On 12-Oct-2016, at 6:54 AM, Suresh Mohan Neelmegh <drsureshmohan@...> wrote:

My auto connect is set to no , will change to yes
Thanks
Suresh
On 12-Oct-2016, at 4:04 AM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:

Since day1 the mount begins tracking the moment power is turned on, regardless of keypad setting. It was done that way so that people can use the mount any time, day or night, even without a keypad for general visual astronomy. Basically the mount follows the rotation of the earth when you plug it in to the 12 volt supply. Once you initialize the mount, then you are able to do Go-To functions using the internal database of the mount.

For the newest CP4, you can set your servo using APCC to turn off tracking on power-up for situations where you don't want to have the mount tracking after a power interruption. All of that is explained in our extensive manuals (however I realize that it's easier to just ask ;^)).

Rolando


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Joseph Zeglinski' J.Zeglinski@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...>
To: ap-gto <ap-gto@...>
Sent: Tue, Oct 11, 2016 3:40 pm
Subject: Re: [ap-gto] Park 0

Rolando,

Please remind me – does the HC firmware using Autoconnect = Yes ... resume the (unattended) mount’s tracking the moment that power comes back after an “actual” location power failure? That would be my only concern, if I was away from the mount at the time.

Joe

Reply to sender <mailto:chris1011@...?subject=Re%3A%20Park%200> . Reply to group <mailto:ap-gto@...?subject=Re%3A%20Park%200> . Reply via Web Post <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/messages/54419;_ylc=X3oDMTJybWNvN2xlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM-?act=reply&messageNum=54419> . All Messages (18) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54371;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aTJmNTV0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDE5BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODMEdHBjSWQDNTQzNzE-> . Top ^
3c
Re: Park 0 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54421;_ylc=X3oDMTJya2FqOTRoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDIxBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:25 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Suresh Mohan Neelmegh" swashyasuresh <mailto:drsureshmohan@...?subject=Re%3A%20Park%200>

I really don't understand what you are doing. It appears to me that you are parking in one undefined park location and then trying to resume from another defined park location. Of course you will cause the mount to be lost.

Roland ,
I put it to park 0 , then shut off mount , re started , did the steps I mentioned earlier and it pointed to western horizon
Suresh
On 14-Oct-2016, at 9:58 PM, chris1011@... [ap-gto] <ap-gto@...> wrote:


I really don't understand what you are doing. It appears to me that you are parking in one undefined park location and then trying to resume from another defined park location. Of course you will cause the mount to be lost.
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3d
Re: Park 0 <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ap-gto/conversations/topics/54424;_ylc=X3oDMTJyaDB0dmJ2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzEyOTI4OTMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDgyODA2BG1zZ0lkAzU0NDI0BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzE0NzY0NjgwODM->
Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:47 am (PDT) . Posted by:
jimmyjujames <mailto:jimmy_an@...?subject=Re%3A%20Park%200>
If your mount is lost and you center on Vega then move mount and park-0.
The mount is still lost.

You must Recal after centering on Vega and before move mount and Park-0

Jimmy
33.6N, 88.6W
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